Farthest North Roystonia Regia

[BigBpalms]

Who knows where it is and how it fared through the cold?

[floridasun]

theres gotta be some in north florida, but i dont think they are the northern most, theres some in california too, new delhi has some. im trying to think of some others

[epicure3]

theres gotta be some in north florida, but i dont think they are the northern most, theres some in california too, new delhi has some. im trying to think of some others

There are quite a few here in SoCal. I don't know how far north in CA. I haven't seen any in the Bay Area, but maybe somebody has.

[Jimbean]

I am sure you folks know that there are royals in coastal Brevard county that had survived many decades, and thrived during most of them.

[edbrown_III]

Dent Smiths garden was the northern most one I had seen --- Doris passed away last year This plant had been around a while.

Best regards

Ed

[BigBpalms]

Im sorry I dont know where the smiths garden is - there is one in the neighborhood next to mine that I always love to keep up with 30 footer put in as a 6 foot overall in 1985- even lasted through the 89 freeze-and took this crazy winter with just some frazzled leaves-looks like its worst enemies are woodpeckers - its in oviedo, fl zone 9a - never seen one more north than that unless indoors

[floridasun]

in my opinion alot in brevard look better than alot in the dade-palm baech areas, ones here look more massive. jimbean there are also more than a few tall ones in palm bay, witch is inland brevard, judging by there size they probably survived the 89 freeze.

Edited March 5, 2010 by floridasun

[Steve the palmreader]

I planted one in Jacksonville Fl.( 7 gal.) in 1990 it survived until 2001, it grew to about 15+ ft with 6 ft of grey wood.

[Lucinda]

My small seedling royals went in the ground in 1987. They now have lovely fat trunks and tower up around 35-40 feet. So far, nothing -- freeze of 1989 (snow in the back of the pickup), hurricanes of 2005, the recent and on-going cold -- has stopped them. I love those trees. Strangely enough, they have not yet seeded. My location: a little island west of Palmetto at the southern end of Tampa Bay.

Lucinda

[floridasun]

i know theres some in egypt but those wouldnt be the nothernmost either, i dont think. ohhh wait a second, a long long long time ago in that book by the royal botanist guy he noted mature royals on lake george in north fl. but i dont think they are still there now.

Edited March 5, 2010 by floridasun

[Zeeth]

My small seedling royals went in the ground in 1987. They now have lovely fat trunks and tower up around 35-40 feet. So far, nothing -- freeze of 1989 (snow in the back of the pickup), hurricanes of 2005, the recent and on-going cold -- has stopped them. I love those trees. Strangely enough, they have not yet seeded. My location: a little island west of Palmetto at the southern end of Tampa Bay.

Lucinda

You've got coconuts that got through this winter unprotected with no damage at all, of course your royals will be fine, forever!

The coldest place I've seen them here was scattered about in Brandon. I'd say with 19F this winter (by Ray in Brandon's reports) they are definitely in a zone 9a spot. I would say they need to be planted with a few feet of trunk at the very very beginning of spring and watered like crazy the entire growing season to ensure success in a cold zone. Protecting them in the coldest of winters wouldn't hurt either.

[Zeeth]

i know theres some in egypt but those wouldnt be the nothernmost either, i dont think. ohhh wait a second, a long long long time ago in that book by the royal botanist guy he noted mature royals on lake george in north fl. but i dont think they are still there now.

I think you are referring to William Bartram's account. It was the first description of royal palms ever, he called them Palma elata. They are long gone, but whether due to cold or not is a mystery. There was a factory there making canes out of the wood of the royal palm, so they were being chopped down. I personally think they died out because of that. Stinks though, as they probably had more cold hardiness than their cuban or South Floridian counter parts.

[bubba]

I would have to believe Dent Smith's in Daytona would be the furthest North in Florida.(I hope it made it)I am certain California, Australia, South Africa and Europe have to be very close for world-wide record purposes.I know I have seen many shots of Royals in Southern Spain ranging from 36 to 38 North. Calling John Wilson?

Zeeth, I believe Dave from Vero had some very interesting information on the Royals at Astor. It is speculated that the Indians actively planted Royals to feed Boar and other animals. I never tire of reading Bartram. Just amazing stuff.

[floridasun]

thanks for that info zeeth and bubba, it would be interesting to find at least remains or something of a royal up there, like a stump or something. theyve probobly rotted to nothing by now though.

Edited March 6, 2010 by floridasun

[Zeeth]

thanks for that info zeeth and bubba, it would be interesting to find at least remains or something of a royal up there, like a stump or something. theyve probobly rotted to nothing by now though.

Oh yeah, ever slap one of those trunks? They sound just like a watermelon, they're filled with water, I'd say that a stump would be gone in less than 5 years, and it's been a few hundred.

[Zeeth]

I would have to believe Dent Smith's in Daytona would be the furthest North in Florida.(I hope it made it)I am certain California, Australia, South Africa and Europe have to be very close for world-wide record purposes.I know I have seen many shots of Royals in Southern Spain ranging from 36 to 38 North. Calling John Wilson?

Zeeth, I believe Dave from Vero had some very interesting information on the Royals at Astor. It is speculated that the Indians actively planted Royals to feed Boar and other animals. I never tire of reading Bartram. Just amazing stuff.

Very interesting. Theoretically, if the indians were planting them, they must have planted a bunch of seed they got (say, from a trade with their fellow indians from the south end of the state), and then most of them probably would have died from the cold, but if they got 1 or 2 survivors, and planted seed from that, and things continued for a few hundred years (or more), the population of royals there would certainly have developed lots more cold tolerance than the ones from the everglades. Too bad they're all dead

[floridasun]

Too bad they're all dead

or so it seems...........

[Zeeth]

Too bad they're all dead

or so it seems...........

The original population has not been seen in hundreds of years. Unless they're hiding, I'd say they haven't got a good chance at still being there. If you find any let me know though.

Now, if royals were planted there to replenish the old population, using seeds of Cuban or South Florida palms, that's a different story. Those palms would be different from the population that was there before, and likely wouldn't have any advantages that may or may not have been bred in to the original population. The thing about hardiness is all speculation though, your guess is as good as mine whether or not it's true.

[Chuck B]

I know there was a post on here a few years ago of a guy that planted some smaller ones(maybe 10-12 feet tall),in St.Augustine,Fl.Don't know if they're still there.I think it was Tim Hopper's house or someone he knew.It was close to the beach

[floridasun]

The original population has not been seen in hundreds of years. Unless they're hiding, I'd say they haven't got a good chance at still being there. If you find any let me know though.

Now, if royals were planted there to replenish the old population, using seeds of Cuban or South Florida palms, that's a different story. Those palms would be different from the population that was there before, and likely wouldn't have any advantages that may or may not have been bred in to the original population. The thing about hardiness is all speculation though, your guess is as good as mine whether or not it's true.

hey what do you mean by my guess? i wasnt guessing, im just saying anythings possible.

[Zeeth]

The original population has not been seen in hundreds of years. Unless they're hiding, I'd say they haven't got a good chance at still being there. If you find any let me know though.

Now, if royals were planted there to replenish the old population, using seeds of Cuban or South Florida palms, that's a different story. Those palms would be different from the population that was there before, and likely wouldn't have any advantages that may or may not have been bred in to the original population. The thing about hardiness is all speculation though, your guess is as good as mine whether or not it's true.

hey what do you mean by my guess? i wasnt guessing, im just saying anythings possible.

I meant that if one were to find a royal palm there, it likely wasnt descended from the originals. Also that even though i assume the originals were hardier, it's just speculation.

[floridasun]

but wouldnt it be cool though.

[AggiePalms]

OK, the northernmost R.regia? How about mine? 3-4 ft trunk, 10 feet total, in Savannah GA. Heritage from southern Dade County.

Now, before you get too excited, it is in a box planter, and just came out today from the garage where it overwintered...and looks great too. Only one brown leaf that was turning brown before it went into the garage. Not exactly the "northernmost semi-native" we are looking for.

If only I could put it in the ground...oh well, we can all dream.

[Dave-Vero]

Scott Zona did the palm family for the Flora of North America. His account of Roystonea has the fascinating info on Bartram's palms. Francis Harper's carefully-considered opinion that Bartram reported accurately about palms, gourds, and a South American vulture from the St. Johns was vindicated during the past decade when Mark Minno rediscovered Cucurbita okeechobeensis, which Bartram had described and illustrated from that area, but hadn't been seen since. It turns out that a tree-climbing vine with baseball-sized gourds is pretty easy to conceal among other vines. Hiding in plain sight. However, it's unlikely that there's wild royals in that area.

The great 1989 freeze destroyed many royals on Merritt Island. Some probably survived. There are fair numbers of old royals at Melbourne Beach, which seems well protected by the wide Indian River. The freeze killed many, probably most, royals in Vero Beach. One survivor's within sight of my house.

Royals are far hardier than coconuts--little if any damage in Vero this winter, while coconuts go from toasted inland to looking just fine on the barrier island.

Orlando's heat island (as described by Eric from Orlando) is worth watching. The cold winter in England has put London's heat island on display as tender plants survived there, died out in the country.

[Ryland]

Considering ALL of California is north of ALL of Florida, it follows that ANY Roystonia in California is further North than any in Florida. I'd be curious to hear the California side of this thread. The bay area has a lot of zone 10, some areas even 10b. Anyone growing one there? Or even in So Cal?

[epicure3]

Considering ALL of California is north of ALL of Florida, it follows that ANY Roystonia in California is further North than any in Florida. I'd be curious to hear the California side of this thread. The bay area has a lot of zone 10, some areas even 10b. Anyone growing one there? Or even in So Cal?

All over Southern California, as I posted.

[bubba]

The greatest latitude that a Royal Palm is growing near Lisbon, Portugal at 38/43 North.Numerous specimens exist in Alicante, Spain at approximately 38/20 North.

I posed the question about the furthest Northern Royal in Ca.on the Cloudforest Cafe and Axel guessed no more than 37 North.I have not heard of anything greater from the usual suspects in South Africa or Australia or anyother likely places but am very interested.

[Steve the palmreader]

Aggie palms in Savannah Ga. you only live once put that baby in the ground and protect it with your life next winter good luck

[epicure3]

Aggie palms in Savannah Ga. you only live once put that baby in the ground and protect it with your life next winter good luck

I don't think that would end up well.

[John in Andalucia]

As bubba says, Portugal looks to be ahead. At the Parque de Sintra they planted out a 25L (6.5G) R. regia in the summer of 2009, purchased from Spain. Totally unprotected, now with new growth showing. The location is slightly further north of Lisbon at 38/47. I'm waiting for them to get back with the exact coordinates.

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

Who knows where it is and how it fared through the cold?

I have seen some royals growing on the south side of a warehouse along Airline inside the 610 Loop in North Houston. That was last fall that I saw them. There was about 5-7 of them, with the largest about 17ft. to the top of the crown. I can imagine that they are gonners now, because North Houston got down to around around 18-19F last winter. Even the ones in Galveston, though they survive the winters, don't look as good as royals in Brownsville or South Florida do.

[philinsydney]

There is one in Sydney Botanic Gardens at almost 34 South.

[Xenon]

Not the farthest north, but someone was(is?) growing royals in San Antonio in a great microclimate..

Royals in SA

Jonathan

[cfkingfish]

I bet there are some on Majorca and Minorca in the Mediterranean, and as well in the Dubrovnik area of Croatia. If they aren't there, they could survive there off the coast.

[Eric in Orlando]

In Florida, the furthest north royal palms that survived the big 12/89 freeze are on Merritt Island and St. Petersburg. Since then royals have been replanted and growing in south Daytona Beach and Orlando.

[Eric in Orlando]

In Florida, the furthest north royal palms that survived the big 12/89 freeze are on Merritt Island and St. Petersburg. Since then royals have been replanted and growing in south Daytona Beach and Orlando.

[Eric in Orlando]

Its always been a mystery what happened to the big royals Bartram saw along the St. John's River up towards Astor/DeLand. But there was a big freeze around 1835 that wiped out early citrus groves so they probaby perished in that freeze

[spockvr6]

In Florida, the furthest north royal palms that survived the big 12/89 freeze are on Merritt Island and St. Petersburg. Since then royals have been replanted and growing in south Daytona Beach and Orlando.

Eric-

I think a couple of them survived in a little town called Crystal Beach, FL (just north of Palm Harbor and south of Tarpon Springs). I spotted these craggy old things about 5 years ago and they look to have been in the ground a long time, with some pretty good battle scars in the trunk!

St. Pete has many many old Royals and this seems to be, as you noted, the northernmost area on the westcoast of FL where there was widespread survival.

[DavidLee]

In Florida, the furthest north royal palms that survived the big 12/89 freeze are on Merritt Island and St. Petersburg. Since then royals have been replanted and growing in south Daytona Beach and Orlando.

Eric-

I think a couple of them survived in a little town called Crystal Beach, FL (just north of Palm Harbor and south of Tarpon Springs). I spotted these craggy old things about 5 years ago and they look to have been in the ground a long time, with some pretty good battle scars in the trunk!

St. Pete has many many old Royals and this seems to be, as you noted, the northernmost area on the westcoast of FL where there was widespread survival.

I have to agree with you about those in Saint Pete. Especially along the bay front in the old north east and sunken gardens area all the way up to Gandy Blvd. The ones at the sunken gardens are 110 years old. They still look good but sadly they are at their end of their life span. They already lost a few because of age. Also you will see very old royals in the historical old north east area near the sunken gardens peaking thru live and laurel oaks. Its a amazing site to see. There are many not just one or two. All of them look pretty healthy with large crowns. Perfect spot for them with a high water table and a warmer microclimate from the bay. I am from east coast of florida. In my opinion those are the best looking ones furthest north in florida period. East Coast, Inland and West Coast you name it. I am comparing those with ones north of Stuart and they pretty good competion with them as well. Sorry central Florida east coast. Show me some pictures and proof me wrong or come over and see for yourself. You will be amazed like me.

[DoomsDave]

As bubba says, Portugal looks to be ahead. At the Parque de Sintra they planted out a 25L (6.5G) R. regia in the summer of 2009, purchased from Spain. Totally unprotected, now with new growth showing. The location is slightly further north of Lisbon at 38/47. I'm waiting for them to get back with the exact coordinates.

That's pretty far [expletive] north!

Further North than Sam Frank's Disco (37 N).