Areca Vestiaria in Southern Cal?

[Just1MorePalm]

I know this has been tried by many of you and I hope successfully...in some cases maybe not...either way, please share your experience...I searched the site and didn't get much, so I thought I would just come out and ask...I would like to get some tips on what to expect and tricks to make this work...

I have the urge to grow Areca Vestiaria in my yard(laughter now)...I understand it will be a challenge, I have read and been told that it is very difficult to get them to survive through our winter(glimmer of hope)...Quote from another post "I'd say it's a real bummer that we can't grow Areca vestiaria here in CA."...Really, Why Not?

I started to acclimate seedlings this winter to cold nights and then during the day let them grow under other palms to get partial sun...I have not had any problems up to now, but I haven't been real aggressive either...they do seem "hardened" somewhat...I'm in no hurry to kill them, they can live in pots for awhile while I fatten them up...I'm OK with that for now...

Below are pictures...if all goes well by next spring...plant them...

[peachy]

I have them here both inground and in pots and they survive below freezing nights without any bother. Just don't let the frost get to them and keep them out of direct cold winds.

Peachy

[Dypsisdean]

This is one of those palms that are so close to making it in California, and it is so beautiful that you keep trying, only to make you crazy that it almost makes it. So you try again.

I've watched dozens go through winter and get to the end of Feb, or even March, so that you start to rejoice that you have finally made it through a winter, only to have it poop out. Someone may be able to make it happen, and if they do I will be very impressed. It's not the cold, it's the long cool winter that gets 'em in the end. It seems as if it's just 2-3 weeks too long. It's maddening.

[CoconutFreak]

Dypsisdean has a point. They just don't like prolonged cool. I have a young Areca vestiaria here in Sydney, Australia, but coming into winter down here in the southern hemisphere, I will probably keep it in my greenhouse. It never gets below about 3 degrees celcius in the city center (it does at my house, since I live in northern Sydney on the southern Central Coast), but its just too cool. Its not about record lows, just prolonged cool.

Edited March 17, 2010 by CoconutFreak

[PalmsZA]

Well its an easy grow at 30 South, but when I lived at 34 South it was a slow death. They are soo beautiful that you just have to keep trying you never know.

[Tyrone]

This is one of those palms that are so close to making it in California, and it is so beautiful that you keep trying, only to make you crazy that it almost makes it. So you try again.

I've watched dozens go through winter and get to the end of Feb, or even March, so that you start to rejoice that you have finally made it through a winter, only to have it poop out. Someone may be able to make it happen, and if they do I will be very impressed. It's not the cold, it's the long cool winter that gets 'em in the end. It seems as if it's just 2-3 weeks too long. It's maddening.

Exactly my experience maybe made worse by watering the thing too early in Spring. But if I didn't water it a hot day would come along and take it out. I've got one plant left in my hothouse which I will let get massive before I try it again in a better microclimate.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Daryl]

These are such lovely palms that they are worth trying over and over again. What about just keeping them in a large decorative pot that is brought inside for the cooler months? That is what I do with my Cyrtostachys and it never complains.

The red form of A.vestiaria seems to tolerate (and require) more sun than the orange forms.

Fortunately we can grow vestiarias outside in the ground here. This is my single orange form...it withstood our bad freeze 2 years ago. It is only a young plant but is already getting its prop roots!

regards,

Daryl

[Tyrone]

I lost a beautiful red form that I had in the ground for two years straight, through two winters. It grew through the second year without problems. Last winter in mid August spring looked like it was over and it warmed up and dried out and it started growing again, only for winter to return in Sept with rain on every day except two days. Unheard of here. That did it in. It just dropped lower leaves one after the other. I dug it up and put it in the hothouse. It was too late. It died.

I will keep mine in a pot until it outgrows my hothouse like Daryl said. I'm growing A catechu without a hitch. Work that out???!!!!

Best regards

Tyrone

[Gonzer]

Many of the coastal "old-timers" from OC can relate tales of how they kept trying and trying to get the plants to last more than a season or two before giving up. Sort of like the ubiquitous Cocos, nice to have for a year or two, just don't become attached to it.

[Zeeth]

How cold will the red form take in Fl?

[epicure3]

Maybe planting out a larger size might make it here.

[MattyB]

Planting a larger size plant from the get go helps with marginal palms. But, the problem with that is: Where did it come from? It's usually not California grown, so then you have the lag/acclimation time that sets it back and sets it up for a Winter death. As far as A. vestiaria goes: I've tried a few times with no success even in the cold frame (where I can even get Pinanga speciosa, Pritchardia pacifica, & Euterpe precatoria to grow). Maybe someday when I have more canopy I'll try again up in my primo-spot, but for now I'm pretty sure this one won't make it.

[DoomsDave]

If you're near the beach (which I think you are) then you'll have humidity.

The problem, as everyone notes, is that it's just too cool for too long here.

If you can give a Vestie an outdoor suntrap that might turn the trick, though, based on what Matty said, I doubt even that will work.

I've killed all I've had.

Alas.

[joe_OC]

I know of one in the ground for two years in Huntington Beach. It is planted well under canopy and next to a brick pillar. It is well protected from any winds. It is growing slowly and this winter doesn't seem to have bothered it much (just saw it over the weekend).

[Just1MorePalm]

I love those stilted roots...the larger red form I have as some baby ones...they look slick...

It sounds like I will need to keep them in pots for some time...maybe make them patio palms...and when they do get strong enough and big enough to plant they will be accustomed to California weather...They seem to be growing pretty fast so far...

Thanks for everyone's input so far...I'm taking notes...

Joe_OC...Do you know what type it is? and the $20,000 question: Can you post a picture?

[MattyB]

From the pic it's obvious that your palm came from Hawaii, due to the cinder soil. I think you're on the right track keeping it in a pot for a year. Bring it inside during cold weather and meanwhile it's getting acclimated to CA. Good luck. I hope it grows good for you.

[ThunderSRQ]

How cold will the red form take in Fl?

Keith,

I think they will do fine where you are in any winter other than the one we just had (and are still "having", based upon the continued below average temps). I have both a solitary maroon as well as a clumping orange in the ground (planted last May from 3 gallon pots) and both looked very good after that initial 12-day cold blast in January (with 6 nights at or below freezing and a couple long-term cold nights).

However, the longer it was cold, the worst they looked (especially the solitary maroon) and, as of today, the maroon is just barely hanging in there (all leaves are brown but the spear is still solid and appears to be ready to open) while the clumping orange is very "messy-looking" but will be OK. Very similar experience with both my Caryota ophiopellis (snakeskin) palm and my Pinanga caesia (both looked great after the first cold spell but are now at that same level of "almost not making it" like the maroon Areca).

All of these are under high live oak canopy and, if we had just had a couple/few freezing nights with the normal return to warm temps immediately afterwards, I am very confident that my Areca's would look OK/good right now.

Tim

[Trópico]

I have one maroon and one orange. The maroon, which is my favorite, is same age and twice the size. If they don't mind the few freezing nights then probably can make it here.

[happ]

I was surprised how well Areca catechu did for 2 winters but I totally messed up the transplant & it died quickly. Catechu is considered more sensitive than vestiaria. Encyclopedia of Palms distinguishes vestiaria as "at home in tropical conditions; it can survive and even thrive in zone 10a and seems to tolerate extended periods of cool weather"

[The Palm Nut]

My Areca Vestiaria is pretty old now, at about 15years. Not particularly fast growing in this part of the world but as you can see quite healthy and happy. Port Macquarie winters can be cold and wet, certainly much colder than the border region of NSW/QLD. In fact I would put my climate closer to that of the northern beaches of Sydney. If you can provide protection from cold winter winds, rain, have good drainage, and most important filtered to full sun for most of the winter days you have a good chance of succeeding. And the golden rule for growing tropical palms in less than tropical climates is dont water them in winter at all period, most can survive quite well for 3 to 4 months without any water. And dont give up on the first go, if I had, my garden wouldnt be what it is today.

Here is a picture of one of mine.

Mike

[palmcurry]

You can try...but you will fail!!

[bgl]

This is a spectacular palm and we have hundreds of them, spread out in a few different areas. The palms in these two photos are part of a grove of 92 Areca vestiaria that form a privacy screen between our property and Kumakahi Street.

[paulgila]

i keep hearing areca triandra is the most cold hardy. never seen an a.vestiara even in the best microclimate.

[happ]

My Areca Vestiaria is pretty old now, at about 15years. Not particularly fast growing in this part of the world but as you can see quite healthy and happy. Port Macquarie winters can be cold and wet, certainly much colder than the border region of NSW/QLD. In fact I would put my climate closer to that of the northern beaches of Sydney. If you can provide protection from cold winter winds, rain, have good drainage, and most important filtered to full sun for most of the winter days you have a good chance of succeeding. And the golden rule for growing tropical palms in less than tropical climates is dont water them in winter at all period, most can survive quite well for 3 to 4 months without any water. And dont give up on the first go, if I had, my garden wouldnt be what it is today.

Here is a picture of one of mine.

Mike

Your vestiaria looks great, Mike. Also Bo's Port Macquarie is latitude: 31°25'S. San Diego is: 32.82. Not much different. Conceivably areca should grow in SoCal. Paul, are triandra available in SoCal nurseries?

Edit: I see Jungle Music sell triandra and suggest "it is worth a try in SoCal".

Edited March 18, 2010 by happ

[sick1166]

nice

[Just1MorePalm]

My Areca Vestiaria is pretty old now, at about 15years. Not particularly fast growing in this part of the world but as you can see quite healthy and happy. Port Macquarie winters can be cold and wet, certainly much colder than the border region of NSW/QLD. In fact I would put my climate closer to that of the northern beaches of Sydney. If you can provide protection from cold winter winds, rain, have good drainage, and most important filtered to full sun for most of the winter days you have a good chance of succeeding. And the golden rule for growing tropical palms in less than tropical climates is dont water them in winter at all period, most can survive quite well for 3 to 4 months without any water. And dont give up on the first go, if I had, my garden wouldnt be what it is today.

Here is a picture of one of mine.

Mike

You can try...but you will fail!!

Palm Nut...Your Vesteria is an inspiration...Great Job!

I'm no "Trekie" But, Didn't "the Federation" win?

[John in Andalucia]

I'm no "Trekie" But, Didn't "the Federation" win?

I see a nursery online that sells A. vestiaria, and it shows trunking specimens in their greenhouse - and it's in GERMANY!! I'll find the link if it's of interest to anyone, otherwise I've no idea how that works. Are they shipping these things in and out again so fast that it's just an illusion, or are they growing them to that size?

[BigFrond]

i keep hearing areca triandra is the most cold hardy. never seen an a.vestiara even in the best microclimate.

My triandra just signed off after 3 years in the ground. It had about 1 and a half foot of trunk on two of the canes.

[bubba]

I am reading Riffle and Craft's commentary on A. vestiara in pertinent part:" While the species is at home in tropical conditions, it can survive and even thrive in zone 10a and seems to tolerate extended periods of cool weather".As cool/cold as this Winter was here, my young A. vestiara is throwing out green leaves like the Federal Reserve is printing green backs. Got to believe this would make it in California.

[palmcurry]

I wish we could grow these very aesthetically pleasing plants here. RLR's book teases us that it might be possible. Geographically speaking it's seemingly do-able. BUT...

I've only seen one (in person) doing well in a greenhouse, and that was only a five gallon. It didn't look that healthy at that. I've never seen a long term planted tree in our environment. Never heard of anyone growing one around here successfully. I've heard more about Cococs nucifera surviving here than Areca vestiaria.

Again, I wish that these palms could grow here. I'll tip my hat to the first person that can do this.

[Tyrone]

I wish we could grow these very aesthetically pleasing plants here. RLR's book teases us that it might be possible. Geographically speaking it's seemingly do-able. BUT...

I've only seen one (in person) doing well in a greenhouse, and that was only a five gallon. It didn't look that healthy at that. I've never seen a long term planted tree in our environment. Never heard of anyone growing one around here successfully. I've heard more about Cococs nucifera surviving here than Areca vestiaria.

Again, I wish that these palms could grow here. I'll tip my hat to the first person that can do this.

I agree. My experience is that I can grow a coconut much easier than A vestiara. I think the reason is this. A coconut will take full sun from an early age, so it's much easier to put it into a winter sun position and have it happy in summer in full sun. Plant an A vestiara in full winter sun and it will probably do OK, but the first 35C day in full sun it will incinerate in a dry summer climate. So finding a spot that gives it maximum winter sun and heat, but gives it just the right amount of summer sun and heat to prevent serious burning is VERY tricky. Too little winter heat and it declines, too little summer heat and it barely grows, too much kills it. A vestiara loves high humidity. Without it I find they don't grow. Hot dry winds undo any nice growth it has achieved. In a hot position, humidity drops like a stone. Of course So Cal and Western Australia are identical in having hot dry summers. What this species really needs is mild very humid summers with rain every day in summer, and winters that are mild and sunny. The complete reverse to my climate. True, microclimates can be used to get closer to the ideal, but I haven't succeeded with this one outside my very hot and humid shady tunnel house in summer. I think for these above reasons Mike in Port Macquarie can grow a seeding one for 15 years, whereas mine dies after two years. His summer climate on the east coast is totally different to mine even though we are at the same latitude and experience similar winter temps.

It's still worth trying though, but you must create a warm and very humid environment to succeed I think. A catechu works for me though, and even Carpoxylon grows fine too in the garden just as a comparison.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Dan OKeeffe]

I know this topic is about outdoor Areca Vestiarias, but they do grow nicely for me in a bright window.

[Just1MorePalm]

In May 2010...I had the urge change around a planter(palms in pots do that to me), So the time allotted to fatten up my Vestiaria was now over...I was able to create a small area were my largest Vesteria could hide from the elements...I hoped...Then the call came in to the Bullpen and it was time to get in the game...

It seems to be working so far, this winter hasn't harmed it much (yet)...The coloring is a little off and its a little spotted but, all in all it still grew and looked ok...it even threw a leaf or 2 during the winter...It may not be out of the woods just yet for this winter. I hope I wont jinx this palm by posting to early...So far so good...

Still with the new car smell...

After 7 months in the ground...

Its hard to get a full shot with all

the trees around it...

Trunkle Region...

Un-Cropped Trunkle region...

[MattyB]

Nice. Only 4 more months of cold to go.

[Dypsisdean]

I hate to be a killjoy again, but my SoCal attempts always carked around April. However, they were never that large.

[Just1MorePalm]

Nice. Only 4 more months of cold to go.

I hope your wrong...Easter is just around the corner...and it will never be ideal weather for it here...But so far its done better than I expected it to...

I think we only have 4-5 weeks of cold nights left and then its grow time...

[mnorell]

I think the SoCal spring is your greatest enemy (well, Santa Anas too), and MattyB hit it on the nosey in pointing it out...since to a lowland tropical palm those nighttime temps are chilly indeed. I was never able to get one to grow when I lived in the Hollywood Hills (I only had the plain orange form in those days, and it sounds like the red form is more robust.). Even summertime temps are marginal for some species, the quick cooldown in the early evenings, just when palms start their nighttime growth process, inhibits many species from good tissue production. I discussed this with Tyrone in a Cocos thread last year, note that he has A. catechu growing in his Perth garden, but he also had noted in the Cocos thread that his evening temps are much warmer than those in SoCal, where A. catechu will not perform.

Creative folks in California have figured out ways to prolong evening warmth by providing lots of concrete/stone, sloped southwestern exposures, etc. I agree with Tyrone that the other problem for California with A. vestiaria is that you have to really protect it from low humidity, particularly Santa Anas. So NE wall protection, some good canopy, winter sun, and not only stones or concrete to give soil warmth and reflected heat at night, but also perhaps a water feature that would also retain heat but also give off atmospheric moisture. Better yet, a south-facing atrium/niche area that you could enclose with clear material for passive solar heating in the cool months.

I'm sure if you really worked at it you could get it to survive. I say go for it and keep trying as long as you can afford replacement plants if you lose some in the process...

[Pez]

These palms can handle a quick freeze with very few lingering effects, but they cannot make it through a prolonged cold spell. I had a single orange crownshaft for about 5 years, in which time it experienced close to 32F a few times showing very little damage. But the prolonged cold (not exceeding 55F for 1 week) absolutely destroyed this palm. It didnt look too bad until April, and then it just melted and collapsed. Most every other vestiaria I'm aware of (central & south florida) died or almost died from the prolonged cold spells of 2009/2010. All that being said, these palms are so beautiful they're worth a try almost anywhere.

[Tyrone]

So NE wall protection, some good canopy, winter sun, and not only stones or concrete to give soil warmth and reflected heat at night, but also perhaps a water feature that would also retain heat but also give off atmospheric moisture. Better yet, a south-facing atrium/niche area that you could enclose with clear material for passive solar heating in the cool months.

Agree. That's how I'm growing my coconut but without the water feature. If Cocie dies (Yes, I'm emotionally attached to my coconut), then I may try a vestie in their and an Adonidia to shade the vestie. Adonidia may sound like a wild stretch, but I did have one last for 3 years in the ground although it did go backwards. There is an amazing trunking fruiting specimen in south Perth in the best microclimate available that I think the owner just jagged. It's against a 3 story high north facing white wall overlooking the Swan river which is only about 300m away. No frost their and totally wind protected from cold winds, but full baking sun. Even in winter it would be warm. A summer lightly shaded area next to that Adonidia would definitely grow a vestie.

Best regards

Tyrone

[epicure3]

Well Joe I hope it works out for you. Larger specimens might stand a chance. Though, I don't hold out a ton of hope longterm for a palm that has trouble getting through one winter. Enjoy it while it lasts. It sure looks great.