The palm tree blues

[peachy]

When I go to the public gardens or look at beautiful palms on line grown by other people, then look at my own plants, some thriving and others not, I start to wonder is it worth all the effort and upset. It seems like the climate world wide is going mad, my area being a typical example. Things seem to be growing so well, then an unusual weather event, (heat cold wet dry whatever) comes along and takes them out. Days dawn when I want to stay in bed for 6 months, then go out and nuture whatever has survived my hibernation. Am I am masochist to keep on trying ? Of course I have successes too, things that thrive and never look back. Should I just bow to nature's wisdom and only plant the tough native palms and hardy exotics, like I see in every second garden in town or do I keep on trying to grow things that should survive here ? (in theory) Maybe I should wait for the weather to settle into a more predictable pattern ? Am I alone with these bouts of self doubt or times when it just doesnt seem worth it ? Meanwhile I keep plodding along doing the best I can. What do other palm nuts grow through in adverse times ? Has anyone ever given up and just grown the tough stuff ? I would love to know.

Peachy

[Walter John]

Look in the mirror there Peachy, what do you see ?

a stocko plant person who grows standard stuff ? someone who doesn't consider the rarity and beauty of exotic palm trees and other sub-tropicals and tropicals under threat in the wild ? I don't think so...The passion lies within.

Bob Dylan once said

"The only thing I knew how to do was to keep on keepin' on like a bird that flew, tangled up in blue."

Of course he was referring to bismarkias and Braheas etc. This is what I recommend you do, plant more hardy exotics like siver bizzies and the like.

You don't need me to say "Good luck", because you are already lucky in your palm passion, ask a stocko person what that means, they won't have a clue.

Edited March 19, 2010 by Greenleaf

[Urban Rainforest]

Peachy, I noticed that your a dog lover like myself. When you by that cute little puppy you know that it's only going to live 10 to 15 years if your lucky but that does'nt stop you from buying it because you think of all the enjoyment that it will give you. It's kind of like that with marginal palms. They may grow great for years but you know in the back of your mind that about every 10 years you may get a hard freeze that could take it out. Remember it's the failures that make the success's that much more rewarding. I've been growing a Coconut here in So Cal for 8 years now and if it died tommorow it has been totaly worth it. I think your problem is your soon going to be going into winter. I kind of lose a little interest in gardening in the winter too. Hang in there and don't give up on the rare stuff!

Stevo

[Tyrone]

Peachy I can relate to a point. It's cooling down now and now I'm becoming depressed that winter is 3 months away. The weather likes messing with my head, rats love eating my Burretiokentia seeds, fungus loves eating my Prestoea seedlings for no reason, my mountain habitat palms have shown signs of stress and some have bleached marks from the heat, strong winds have dropped heaps of leaves and branches in my garden and snapped two fronds off of my large Veitchia joannis, the extreme heat destroyed my favourite Dictyosperma album furfuraceum that I germinated from seed and potted up into a 35L but gave it too much sun for one day this year (42C), my Heliconias refused to flower despite the hottest summer on record and some are now too high and falling over, many seeds I have on the go are refusing to come up (thankyou AQIS for hanging onto my seeds for 4 weeks for no reason!!!!!!!), I have run out of room in my garden nursery and have nowhere to protect some of my more delicate stuff, and my drivers side car seat snapped yesterday morning and left me on the backseat, so I've spent all day at wreckers trying to find a suitable replacement which I will install this arvo. So I'm a little peeved, especially at the fact that the sun hasn't come out today due to cloud cover, so today has that gloomy May look about it and it's not really warm enough for optimum growth. One extreme to the other, BUT, with zero rain.

I can only imagine (but honestly only in a small way) what it must be like to be unwell.

Why not try growing some fail safe species in your garden and experiment with maybe 25%. Expect to lose some things but you won't lose everything to bad weather etc. But who am I to really say that. I get carried away all the time, and I expect you will too. It's the mania of a collector that throws all caution to the wind and acts like winter and bad weather will never return.

I hope you feel better soon Peachy. When I feel downhearted I tell myself not to take myself too seriously and have a rest and come back another day, when I'm feeling more enthusiastic. It's generally a symptom of being worn out.

Best regards

Tyrone

[PalmsZA]

I know how you feel Peach.

The rhino beetles have been making chaos here, tally so far this year: 2 triangle palms, 2 Biz, 1 Trithrinax acantho, 1 Prit affinis, 1 Astro aculeatum. Palms are still standing but are full of holes. Many others were attacked but I managed to get the buggers out of the palm before too much damage was caused.

I decided that I just wont grow those palms any more. Done. Not getting my knickers in a knot, just taking it easy!

So Peach, take it easy, we all feel that way sometime.

Dennis

[tropicbreeze]

And I thought I was the only one with these negative things happening all the time! But I won't start on my litany of complaints, not sure if there's a maximum size limit for any one post here. We're in the process of seasonal change too, even though it's earlier than normal. I don't want the change, definitely not ready for it, even if it did delay a bit and come at the normal time. All the plants and things I wanted sorted out by now will have to wait. I guess if we coped with what we had then we'd get more to take us beyond where we could cope. I strongly suspect the word is "masochism".

[Wai`anae Steve]

What's with you "blokes" down there in Oz? A little cold and thoughts of winter and the blues set in. NOT!!!!! You guys/gals are tough and the palms you grow are also. Remember in only 6 months it will be warming up again.

[Lowey]

Peachy,

Like most of the members on this forum, you have success and you have some failures, I have been trying to grow some rare plants for years and there are always some that I feel like giving up on, but then a new red leafe from a Chambeyronia opens or a seed that I thought would never germinate comes to life and it all seems worth while.

I gave up on palms a few years ago and did nothing in my garden for a number of years, one day someone asked me if I had any passions / hobbies and I had to say my dogs and my palms, it was then that I went and took a look at my poor neglected garden and to my amazement, most of it was thriving and I felt better than I had for a long time.

Don't let go of your passions, every day my plants and my puppies give me so much hang in there buddy.

[John in Andalucia]

Growing rare palms in a less than perfect climate is like trying to bend double to catch a dollar bill on a windy day. Ah, the pain and frustration!

[Jason Baker Portugal]

Peachy,

g´day . I am growing lots of palms that would normally be out od my league but I have grown a patch of rain forest and the finicky (never wrote this word before)ones get high overhead canapy just like in habitat. I think the main problem (apart from zone denial) is that most palms are forest dwellers where they have a good, mild micro-climate. That said, actually the problem is someone wanting to display this kind of palm in the middle of the lawn. . Go with the flow, go with nature and you will see that they grow better and with less problems. That is my opinion. Jason

[ariscott]

And I thought I was the only one with these negative things happening all the time! But I won't start on my litany of complaints, not sure if there's a maximum size limit for any one post here. We're in the process of seasonal change too, even though it's earlier than normal. I don't want the change, definitely not ready for it, even if it did delay a bit and come at the normal time. All the plants and things I wanted sorted out by now will have to wait. I guess if we coped with what we had then we'd get more to take us beyond where we could cope. I strongly suspect the word is "masochism".

Still talks about more rain at the end of next week... so there is still hope. We need to compare notes... we can find out what works and what doesn't that way.. I have lost a few too...

Peachy,

We have all done it!! I have lost a few and I am supposed to be in the tropics... Even tropical condition varies and what might work in Cairns, might not work here... So, just do your best... and if they don't survive... time to plant something else...

Regards, Ari

Edited March 19, 2010 by ariscott

[SubTropicRay]

Peachy,

Hang in there! I'm upset, angry and a whole list of feelings right now too. After 15 years of living in a bonified sub tropical climate (with no significant freezes to speak of), I awoke to -3C on January 11. Many specimens that were grown from seed and had attained good size are now in the mulch pile. It's the chance I took and for the most part, I have no regrets. I say put in some more hardy things but keep a flair for the tropical too. As someone else said, this type of situation allows you to appreciate more the things that survive.

Ray

[epicure3]

I grow a combination of stuff that will, barring a snow storm, look good all the time and stuff that is marginal but seems to bounce back in the warmer months. That way, your garden will always have a nice look about it. Let's see some pictures of your garden, Peachy. I'm sure it looks better than mine after winter.

[Peter Pacific]

Morning Peachy! SNAP OUT OF IT!!!! (I'm afraid if I give in to your depression it will be contageous!) Yes, we all have our horror stories and I don't even want to mention my 20 foot Carpentaria that is dieing and I can't do anything but watch its slow death, my Pritchardias that have burnt to a crisp and my Wodyetia that has some illness that leaves it wilting.

I do know that your words affect your garden so watch what you say and before you start thinking that I've been on the beach too long, take it to heart and talk to your palms. There is a great link I'll have to find for you about a Japanese Doctor who studied the effects of words on water on a molecular level and the results are astonishing.

If there is one thing that the garden has taught me Peachy it is patience. What has your garden taught you? (Careful what you say!) Don't bring any negative energy into your garden. Don't worry about your neighbor's garden or that incredible botanical garden, you don't know what they're hiding!

Good Luck and keep up the good work. Peter

[Kim]

I can totally understand and relate to your mood, Peachy. But the good news is: this mood will pass.

Sometimes I look out the window at my garden and see all the yellow palms and dead leaves, rampant weeds, expiring bromeliads and I think, "this is not a garden, it is a compost pile!" But the weather changes, something exotic unexpectedly manages to look really spectacular for a few days, and I'm hooked again. You know you can't stop trying, Peachy, it's in your blood. Why fight it? Yes, make sure the major "bones" of your garden are bullet proof, but then go for the edgier exotics just for the thrill of it, even if they don't last forever.

[rozpalm]

Peachy, after this winter in Florida and my losses in terms of plants and dollars growing daily, I think of the same thing. But then when I walk through my garden and I see one of the exotics that is growing really well, I get that excitement that only a plant nut can relate to where I begin to imagine what this tree/plant will look like in 5, 10 or 15 years. I just don't think you can get that excitement from a commonly grown landscape plant. As spring is almost here, I can see many of my plants starting to come back to life and the excitement just builds from there.

I think what this years horrific winter has taught me is that part of the price for growing an exotic garden is learning to accept that some or even many things are going to die no matter what you do. That is all part of the price we have no choice but to accept when we build a garden full of exotic plants. In many ways its the risk of loss or growing difficulty that defines the excitement we get from seeing a well grown exotic plant. In short, its part of the dues we pay to play in this hobby.

[PalmatierMeg]

Peachy, I certainly relate to how you feel. I live 120 miles south of Ray in Tampa and this awful winter wreaked havoc on me too: -2C on Jan. 11 after a day of icy rain on Jan. 9. My shade garden is a wreck and almost daily I pull a spear on another palm - yesterday was Synethanthus fibrosus, Wed. my second Areca latiloba. I got others I initially hoped would survive but now believe are goners. My shade garden is a mess. March temps are below normal for Jan. I wish I'd taken photos last fall when everything was so lush and happy.

I could dwell on all that destruction and stay depressed like I was in Jan. when I thought I'd lose everything. But more of my palms survived than didn't. And now I got a chance to redo my shade garden, which means, I learned last summer, I need to provide more shade against the FL sun. Now that spring may be -almost- here I am going to weekend plant sales to find new stuff to liven up my tattered yard. Our gardens, like our lives, don't stay static. And I'm not giving up on all the palms that died. I have a soft spot for Arecas, Pinangas and Heterospathe longipes, so when I can swing it, I will find more. I will have fun doing all of it, from planning to planting, and figuring what to do about next winter. Which couldn't be worse than this one, right?

[Z4Devil]

Dear Peachy -

a very emotional toppic ... and I also can understand you, I am with you in your thoughts ...

But look: our palms are our hobby ... and like our life they are combined likewise with success and disappointments. Nobody is happy to see when something precious leaves us ...

To show your problems a little bit closer and comprehensible, you must know, that somebody like me here in Germany fights against much more coldness and problems. I do not share the partiality for outdoor palms (from a German perspective) like Trachycarpus, Washingtonia or Chamerops. I always loved tropical rare palms - the more rarer than better.

And I knew there would be never a chance to put them in the ground, they would have to pass their life within my rooms. A number of them (L. hoehnei, 6 Acanthos, 2 Cyrtos) did not make it this winter. Not because of coldness but of a lack of light. Since about 8 weeks we have additional cool-white neon glow lamps - only for my palms, activated in this period of winter for at least 12 h. I don´t wanna have such losses in the next year anymore - it is too expensive.

What shall I tell you ... the first moment of growing of one of your palms, maybe sometimes a blossom ... the beautiful feeling of holidays they give us ... don´t give up.

Simply anybody can!

Palm enthusiasts knows what it means to look at the queen of plants.

Love, Verena

Edited March 19, 2010 by Z4Devil

[Mark Heath]

Peachy,

Hang in there sweetie!

I have lost my three prized Cocos that have 10-14ft of trunk due to the harsh winter we had! I have had to just look forward and forget about my losses even though i had these specimen Cocos since 1999!

Keep the faith, you're among friends who understand your frustraition!

Mark

[Walter John]

Look in the mirror there Peachy, what do you see ?

a stocko plant person who grows standard stuff ? someone who doesn't consider the rarity and beauty of exotic palm trees and other sub-tropicals and tropicals under threat in the wild ? I don't think so...The passion lies within.

Bob Dylan once said

"The only thing I knew how to do was to keep on keepin' on like a bird that flew, tangled up in blue."

Of course he was referring to bismarkias and Braheas etc. This is what I recommend you do, plant more hardy exotics like siver bizzies and the like.

You don't need me to say "Good luck", because you are already lucky in your palm passion, ask a stocko person what that means, they won't have a clue.

So now I’m goin’ back again,

I got to get to plant somehow.

All the palms I used to know

They’re an illusion to me now.

Some are made for the kitchens

Some are cut with knives.

Don’t know how it all got started,

I don’t know what we're doin’ with our lives.

But me, I’m still on the board

Headin’ for another post

We always did feel the same,

We just saw it from a different point of view,

Tangled up in blue.

[paulgila]

thats a "toe-tapper" all right!

[paulgila]

"oh lord i got em,i got the paaaaalm tree blues!"

(to the tune of "honky tonk blues" by hank willimas sr.)

[sick1166]

you know i look at my stilt palms all pritchardias liculas and others burnt by the cold and all my copernicias cocthrinax and others that are undamaged I REALLY dont care anymore they look so good all summer just to be tore up from the floor up tommorow is a palm sale ill buy more look great all summer as long as now freakin hurricanes come this way and get beat up from the feet up in the winter and just remember the good times we had. WOW i think ill take up golf

[Tyrone]

Peachy I think you've hit a common chord.

When we know our garden we know all it's weaknesses and faults, what needs doing, what could be done better. But to be honest, when someone else comes into the same garden, they actually ignore all of that and look at the high points and thats what stands out to them. When we know our garden's negatives we kind of amplify them in our own mind, while others very often don't even notice the negatives. I have many non palm people come into my garden and just go wow. They don't know what any of it is, and it's often a mess in my eyes. When I tell them I've got to do this and that, "sorry it's a mess", they look at me like they don't understand and then run off into the jungle to explore it like little kids. My garden is basically a Syagrus canopy garden, so even by palm collectors, it's basics are naff. But I don't care. My Syagrus are healthy and look OK, and I do wish I'd done it a bit different looking back now.

The main thing is, you have to have FUN in your garden. "Fun" is a relative thing though. Digging a big hole in rock hard clay may not be fun at the time, but filling that hole with a beautiful new palm and sitting back with a cuppa and enjoying the accomplishment is what all of this is about. Non gardeners and non palm people just don't get it.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Paul The Palm Doctor!]

I am sorry, Ms. Peachy, that you are feeling in pain from garden issues.

Just detatch yourself from the anxiety of successes vs. failures. It's not a competition (or it shouldn't be anyway.) Your moods will likely go up & down as various situations occur in your life.

You're a stalwart survivor; you'll overcome being a bit "blue" too. It's all temporary, even if the temporary is 10, 20, or 30 years!

Best regards,

Paul The Palm Dr.

[ariscott]

The main thing is, you have to have FUN in your garden. "Fun" is a relative thing though. Digging a big hole in rock hard clay may not be fun at the time, but filling that hole with a beautiful new palm and sitting back with a cuppa and enjoying the accomplishment is what all of this is about. Non gardeners and non palm people just don't get it.

Best regards

Tyrone

You are right there Tyrone.... I have been told time and time again that I have to take time to 'enjoy' my property too... and then they look at me funny when I told them that working in the garden is a way to 'enjoy' my garden for me... LOL. It seemed like too much hard work for them... I guess for them 'enjoying' is just sitting down and having a few beers... hhmm, not much of a drinker myself...

BTW, I picked up B. balcooa today... am I crazy??

Regards, Ari

Edited March 21, 2010 by ariscott

[Tyrone]

The main thing is, you have to have FUN in your garden. "Fun" is a relative thing though. Digging a big hole in rock hard clay may not be fun at the time, but filling that hole with a beautiful new palm and sitting back with a cuppa and enjoying the accomplishment is what all of this is about. Non gardeners and non palm people just don't get it.

Best regards

Tyrone

You are right there Tyrone.... I have been told time and time again that I have to take time to 'enjoy' my property too... and then they look at me funny when I told them that working in the garden is a way to 'enjoy' my garden for me... LOL. It seemed like too much hard work for them... I guess for them 'enjoying' is just sitting down and having a few beers... hhmm, not much of a drinker myself...

BTW, I picked up B. balcooa today... am I crazy??

Regards, Ari

No you are not crazy Ari. This was the first giant bamboo I ever saw as a child and got my imagination going. I saw it at Perth Zoo as they have some 100 year old stands of it, which they've since sawn to the ground. (They will come back). This bamboo does tend to lean a bit when it gets taller, so give it a fair bit of room to lean out. They reach about 20m tall here, so may go taller for you, I don't no.

I enjoy a beer in my garden. I just planted out 3 Anthurium coriaceum's in 300mm pots that I bought on a clearance for $5 each. They should look nice and exotic in the garden and take winter well. I also bought a Caryota rumphiana which I didn't have in my collection. I'm having a cider now and waiting for the thunderstorms to start. Big black clouds have moved in this arvo.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Steve Mac]

Peachy, You have given me and other people great advice over the years, and from the above replies it seems that it is not only me that has appreciated it. Now where did all of that knowledge come from? Not just from browsing the internet and reading repeatedly plagerized and cut and pasted material about palms in other climates which is wrong for us, we can all do that. The value that you have added is your first hand experiance, so I say PLEASE keep licking, stamping and pushing those envelopes our world would be a less rich world without them. Steve

[BS Man about Palms]

Buck up Peachy. As you can see, a lot of us are there with you and we'll all get through it!!!

[Really full garden]

I have been in and out of love with palms since the 70s.I think it is normal to have a passion wane.I have had many flings with cycads,orchids,bromeliads and a very brief facination with lithops.I am currently interested in vireyas,pithcher plants and unusual aroids.

It is important to move on,if only temporarily to something that you can control.I love my palms but do not feel the need to collect everything that I can squeeze into my garden.

[Moose]

Wow Peachy. It appears you are not alone. Actually it seems you have some very knowledgable palm people in your corner. We all push zones and conditions that are not always condusive. We all basically strive to give a palm enough variables that it has in it's native habitat and see what happens.

I have been in the place you are in right now. We have to let go of what we are not in control of. The older I get the more I realize how little control we have in life, so just smell the roses when they bloom, replant when they die!

Ron.

[Ryland]

I think I can relate as well, since all the palms I've tried to grow were in zone 8b Oregon. Every winter I'd lose a few, maybe Phoenix theophrastii or Chamaerops or Butia. Just this last winter it went down to 8F in town, 12F in my palm garden, and I lost about 14 of my 35 or so small palms that never grow very much in the cool climate, by far the roughest winter and biggest loss yet. It was very unpleasant, but what can you do? The damage has been done. So, like previous winters, I miserably dug out many of my most magnificent palms that just couldn't pull through, and replaced them with 9 palms that I got from Perito at SLO Palms, all rated as quite hardy to my area, and brought the garden back to life. The new palms were larger, and thus more capable of withstanding cold temperatures (I hope!). Eventually I envision the palms to be grown enough and tested enough that those that remain are completely hardy. Though the sadness of losing so many good palms still hits home, I can feel some comfort knowing that the new palms I planted have made the garden look lush again and that perhaps they have a chance of making it where the others didn't.

[BlufftonSC]

When I go to the public gardens or look at beautiful palms on line grown by other people, then look at my own plants, some thriving and others not, I start to wonder is it worth all the effort and upset. It seems like the climate world wide is going mad, my area being a typical example. Things seem to be growing so well, then an unusual weather event, (heat cold wet dry whatever) comes along and takes them out. Days dawn when I want to stay in bed for 6 months, then go out and nuture whatever has survived my hibernation. Am I am masochist to keep on trying ? Of course I have successes too, things that thrive and never look back. Should I just bow to nature's wisdom and only plant the tough native palms and hardy exotics, like I see in every second garden in town or do I keep on trying to grow things that should survive here ? (in theory) Maybe I should wait for the weather to settle into a more predictable pattern ? Am I alone with these bouts of self doubt or times when it just doesnt seem worth it ? Meanwhile I keep plodding along doing the best I can. What do other palm nuts grow through in adverse times ? Has anyone ever given up and just grown the tough stuff ? I would love to know.

Peachy

Hey, maybe the increased sun spot activity we are now having will help things to even out?! I know what you're saying, though. Weird weather here in the Southern U.S., too. Good luck there!