Greetings from a newbie

[Root Down]

Hello all. My first post. I've recently caught the palm tree "bug", so I'm happy to have found this site! I've learned so much already... just wish i'd have found it sooner! =)

Back in Sept 09, my wife and i purchased 3 little baby Sabal Palmettos... so the tag says. However, it wasn't until a week ago (when i found this site and PalmatierMeg's wonderful post about Lisas) that i saw anything close to which resembled what we have. Needless to say, I was a little surprised! Below are my pictures to see if y'all agree with me. I did just put them in the ground last week, which (after reading this site) i'm thinking now, was too early since they're maybe two years old at the most?

The ground here is awfully rocky. As in, you need a steel bar to dig in this stuff. By my "scientific" analysis, i figure 80% rock and 20% clay. We dug a 5-gallon bucket size hole, amended the soil, took out all the boulders, and laid 6" of sand on the bottom. A local lady that does her daily walk along our street told us a little history about this area and figured that it must've been a river bed at one point in time. I'd have to agree. So, now I wonder if i'll need to go bigger with the hole, or if roots are strong enough to find the cracks and plow between the rock?

I do have some palm fertilizer spikes, but probably won't touch them until next spring, correct? I've thrown in some earthworms from my compost pile and told them to go to work.

Any other suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Hopefully, with your help these guys will turn into beauties!

Cheers,

Root Down

[Zeeth]

Welcome to the forum.

First off, the pics are a little grainy, but it looks kind of like lisas that I've seen, but it's really too early to tell. You have to wait a few years to tell for sure. When the leaves are fully palmate, you will be able to tell. If it is, you got really lucky.

Second, here in Fl, they grow in so many different types of soil, they aren't really bothered. I'd say as long as you have good drainage, you should be fine. They generally don't grow as well in clay soils though.

You planted it at just the right time. You could probably fertilize starting summer, maybe 3 months after you planted, but you should ideally use granule, slow release fertilizer specifically designed for palms. If you don't find any at a local hardware store, you can order it online. Carl Pool's palm food is supposed to be pretty good. If you've got good drainage, once the temps get above 80F, you should water that guy maybe 2X a week. They can go with much, much less, but they grow faster if properly watered and fertilized.

[Mark Heath]

Welcome to the family!

Here in Central Florida you can spy many Sabal Palmettos growing between the cracks in sidewalks, so no worries w/ your planting! They're tough as nails. Hopefully there are cracks in the rocks that the roots can shoot around.

Mark

[Ken Johnson]

Hey there Root!

Are there other Sabals growing in Portland? I'm thinking the climate may be more of a worry that the soil!

[Moose]

here

Hello all. My first post. I've recently caught the palm tree "bug", so I'm happy to have found this site! I've learned so much already... just wish i'd have found it sooner! =)

Back in Sept 09, my wife and i purchased 3 little baby Sabal Palmettos... so the tag says. However, it wasn't until a week ago (when i found this site and PalmatierMeg's wonderful post about Lisas) that i saw anything close to which resembled what we have. Needless to say, I was a little surprised! Below are my pictures to see if y'all agree with me. I did just put them in the ground last week, which (after reading this site) i'm thinking now, was too early since they're maybe two years old at the most?

The ground here is awfully rocky. As in, you need a steel bar to dig in this stuff. By my "scientific" analysis, i figure 80% rock and 20% clay. We dug a 5-gallon bucket size hole, amended the soil, took out all the boulders, and laid 6" of sand on the bottom. A local lady that does her daily walk along our street told us a little history about this area and figured that it must've been a river bed at one point in time. I'd have to agree. So, now I wonder if i'll need to go bigger with the hole, or if roots are strong enough to find the cracks and plow between the rock?

I do have some palm fertilizer spikes, but probably won't touch them until next spring, correct? I've thrown in some earthworms from my compost pile and told them to go to work.

Any other suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Hopefully, with your help these guys will turn into beauties!

Cheers,

Root Down

Root Down - you are truly a sick palm person. Therefore, you have found the proper home here on PalmTalk, we are all pretty sick about palms on this forum! Welcome from another zone pusher!

Kindest regards,

Ron.

[newtothis]

Hi, your sables still have their strap leaves which will look like lisas. We are on solid limestone and have to jackhammer out holes to plant...trust me the roots will find openings!

[bgl]

Hi Root down,

Welcome to PalmTalk! As you may already know, a number of other Forum members live in "palm challenged" areas, so you should be able to get plenty of information and assistance.

Aloha from the Big Island,

Bo-Göran

[Kris]

A warm welcome to you,my friend....

Love,

kris

[Root Down]

Thanks to EVERYONE for the warm welcome and responses. You've set my mind at ease about the rock. My wife thanks you, too, because we won't have to dig anymore. lol =)

Ken, other than what's at the nursery, i haven't seen any Sabals in the 6 months i've known of them. However, there are some Windmills around town. Portland is in a valley and considered zone 8a with very mild weather. We rarely touch freezing, so i think the winter rains will be my biggest concern. Has anyone ever heard or seen them "mounded up" to help drainage? Maybe that's what i should do...

Also, I plan on getting some updated photos uploaded soon to show you the most recent bad news/good news. Bad news: While they were still in their nursery containers, a neighborhood cat thought one of them was a toy and had a wrestling match with it. Dragging it out of the container, and shredding the fronds like cheese. Good news: it's responding very well to the planting with a new spear shooting up. Party!

Anyhoo, am i weird if i just want to go sit by them all day? =)

ttyl

[PalmatierMeg]

Dana, welcome to PalmTalk. Glad you liked my posts. My avatar is a photo I took of one of two wild Lisas on opposite sides of an interstate exit. Where did your Sabals come from? I've been told it is hard to tell a Lisa from a normal palmetto until it is 5 years old. I would guess yours are maybe 3? I will post photos I took last fall of a S. Lisa seedling given me in May 2008. Someone else more knowledgable than I said lst year he thought it was a Lisa.

Certainly it's possible that one or more of your seedlings might be Lisa, although I wouldn't bet the rent that all 3 are. Knowing the source of the seeds would help.

They are really tough palms and take much more than a cat can do to them: hurricanes, thunderstorms, bizarre FL winters. The thing to remember in Oregon is that they want sun and heat and plenty of it. If you also add water and fertilizer they may grow faster than their usual snail's pace.

Sabal palmetto Lisa, Dec, 2009, Cape Coral, FL

[DoomsDave]

RD:

Welcome, amigo.

Dang, Portland Orgasmitron! That's pushing it, but, hey, some palms will grow in [expletive] Alaska so, keep us apprized. (Want some free Chamadorea seeds?)

[Root Down]

Interesting, after doing a little more research, i guess Portland "touches" freezing more often than i thought, usually at night obviously. It's just that the temp usually goes above freezing during the day which clouded my judgment. I should've said it's a rare event when the whole day is sub-freezing. Happens about once or twice a year. Don't quote me on that!

Hi Meg. Unfortunately, i'm not exactly sure what area of the country they came from. I'm curious if that's a question an employee would know? I'll have to ask next time i stop.

Hi Dave. Sure, i'd love some! That's very kind of you. My thumb isn't even close to green so i may need some planting advice though. Any particular species?

[Root Down]

Alrighty, here's a look at my recently planted Sabals

It's interesting to see how much better the tree with no cut-off leaves is doing in Photo #1 than in #3. Roughly two inches taller.

So, now my next question: Is the yellowing of the leaves a natural occurrence, too much water, a deficiency, or a combination? I'm also thinking they're a bit pale.

Many thanks in advance.

[PalmatierMeg]

I'm no expert but I believe that the Sabal in photo 2 above is definitely NOT S. Lisa. Its palmate leaf tips droop too much. I won't venture to guess about plants 1 & 3 until they show adult leaves, but the chances of either or both being Lisas are remote. Common S. palmettos are so abundant compared to mutant Lisas that of a nursery in Oregon unknowingly ending up with a batch of Lisa seedlings defies my comprehension.

As to leaf color, Sabals don't get bright or spring green, at least where I am. Sometimes they are "bluish". Yours were probably rootbound and needed to be in the ground, weren't fed in the nursery so may be nutrient deprived. They are tough palms, but, I reiterate, need lots of heat and sun. Hopefully, you can provide that. I usually mix up a batch of root stimulator when I plant palms, water and mulch well. Let them settle in, then feed with good fertilizer that has micronutrients.

[JASON M]

Hey Root, join the awesome party! I got the palm bug about a year ago!!

[cfkingfish]

How we gonna kick it? Did you get your name from where I think you did?

As for Lisas, you will be able to tell them as a juvenile, because their leaves will be very upright and not pliable at all. That means if you were to grab the strap leaf and squeeze, it would break before it would give in. An odd visual, I hope that makes sense.

[Dave-Vero]

http://www.cloudfore...west/index.html is a fairly busy, and fascinating message board for the PNW.

I'm aware of a saw palmetto, Serenoa repens, in Eugene (distinctly balmy climate). Hoyt Arboretum in Portland has tried Butia capitata, but I wonder if they get warm enough in the summer. I'd try it on the south side of a nice, warm building.

Portland has lots of happy Trachycarpus. I just checked the famous one at or near 2546 NE Glisan St--Google Street View has a fine view of it. Good to see it's happy and seemingly taller than when I went by it every morning on the bus.

Also, 6224 SE Belmont St.

I think I see a happy (if yellowish) trachy growing between the two wings of Tabor Heights United Methodist Church at SE Stark St / SE 62nd Ave. You need the Street View image with a grey Mitsubishi Endeavour SUV. That trachy was a half-price leftover rescued from Fred Meyer circa late fall 1998. It will have grown without irrigation.

[Alicehunter2000]

Is it just me or does palm #3 look varigated.....if so....very cool. These palms many times grow at the edges of ponds, swamps,bays, ocean and other water bodies....so water it well. When they are small, try not to break any roots...I have found they don't take root disturbance well. In your area provide as much heat as possible. They can take the cold but need some summer heat to be happy. Planting on a mound is not a bad idea in your type soil for many types of palms including Sabals....lastly Welcome to Palmtalk.

[Root Down]

Meg ~ yeah, i think i've given up on the lisa notion for any of them. I'm still happy though

Kingfish ~ yep, i did. They're one of my favs. New album out soon!

Dave ~ believe it or not, i just found that message board yesterday and did some reading... also found the Pac NW Palm & Exotic Plant Society at hardypalm.com. i actually drive by that church you speak of every morning, i'll have to look for it. If you drive west down Stark a little further (5246 SE Stark St) they have a triple-trachy in the front of another church. Google maps is a bit old from the looks of it, as the photo was taken right when they were planted. They're now about 4' tall. That is what basically opened mine eyes to palms.

[Root Down]

Just a little update on my Sabal Palmettos. They've been in the ground 4 months now and are starting to see their first Portland summer. We had a very wet spring - basically, two straight months of rain and cool weather after they were planted. My fourth sabal, that I didn't upload, actually rotted, but these three all made it! If I could do it over again, I wouldn't plant until June since this Pac NW weather is so unpredictable.

I think they're doing OK, not great, with some yellow/brown fronds and dried tips. I'm still trying to figure out proper watering amounts... but the spears appear to be in good shape doing most of their growing after the spring rains subsided.

[Palm crazy]

Hey there Root down,

Glad to see another PNW palm nut, like myself I've only been on here for two months and feel pretty welcomed from folks here.

Sabal looks like they are doing pretty good, lots of sunshine for them. I don't grow that sabal, but I think you can expect three leaves a year plus three spears by the end of Oct. Make sure you give them lots of water when the temps are in the 80's-100F that will help them grow faster. Others can give you more tips I'm sure!

Good luck

Palm crazy!