The hardiest feather palm.

[reggieroo]

I'm looking at getting a new feather palm for here in Worcestershire, UK. I have tried CIDP with no success at all also had Butia capitata that I lost this last Winter (which was our worst in 30 years).I want to use as little protection as possible in the garden over Winter as I use the garden still during the cold weather & hate everything wrapped up. The only palms that survived last Winter unprotected was trachycarpus fortunei & two Chamaerops humilis which took a beating.

I have looked at getting Butia odorata or Butia eriospatha but I'm thinking Jubaea chilensis is the hardiest of them all.

Edited August 27, 2013 by Kostas

[Zeeth]

Jubaea may be the hardiest feather palm of them all, but I would try a Butia eriospatha as well if I were you.

[Alberto]

Jubaea may be the hardiest feather palm of them all, but I would try a Butia eriospatha as well if I were you.

Maybe the cold hardiness of both B.eriospatha and Jubaea added to the high humidity resistance of B.eriospatha will make the hybrid of both a winner....

[Rch65]

Or Jubaea x Parajubaea.

[Alberto]

Or Jubaea x Parajubaea.

I agree!!! :drool:

[Moh]

Or Jubaea x Parajubaea.

I agree!!! :drool:

just jubaea, jubaea jubaea. Its proven hardy here. Hybridising might well create an interesting and attractive palm, however crossing with palms that I have found to be less hardy are only likely to produce something less resistant. i know I may get chastised for saying this... but I have found Jubaea to be hardy here and very attractive. If hybrids were readily available I may be guilty on jumping on the band wagon however regie you are referring to hardiness. Some may argue that a hybrid may be more liekly to inherit the better attributes as discussed above but i can't see what attributes the above palm would get in terms of Hardiness. It may grow faster, have a better shape...etc but thats a different thing.

Edited June 14, 2010 by Moh

[freakypalmguy]

Although the hybrid speed of growth would be a real positive, as pure Jubea is pretty slow in cold climates, a hybrid might be able to recover from damage quicker. I think the best would be the Butia X Jubea, two very cold hardy palms combined with the accelerated growth of the hybrid might me a real winner for you.

Matt

[Nigel]

Difficult to beat a Jubaea when grown well........ was always the favourite in my garden.

HOWEVER, need to buy a 15 year old one in the UK which is expensive, they are woefully slow until this age in the UK and you would be old before it got going.

I had a 15 year old plant I grew from seed which was still barely 2 foot tall.

If you can buy an import that is already big it will do well and grow quite fast.

Otherwise Butia eriosptha is a much better bet, hardy and fast growing and less damage to the wallet.

[Alberto]

...............................It may grow faster, have a better shape...etc but thats a different thing.

No thats not a different thing. Jubaeas are sloooowwwwwwwwwwwww......

If you have a hardy palm,that grows four times faster then a Jubaea, then the bigger size the hybrid palm will reach in shorter time ,the faster substitution of frost burned fronds.... This all tells points on hardiness!

[reggieroo]

Mmmmm got me thinking now as I can't afford a 15 year old one maybe only around 10 years old. So if I got one around that age I would still have to wrap it?

[Moh]

...............................It may grow faster, have a better shape...etc but thats a different thing.

No thats not a different thing. Jubaeas are sloooowwwwwwwwwwwww......

If you have a hardy palm,that grows four times faster then a Jubaea, then the bigger size the hybrid palm will reach in shorter time ,the faster substitution of frost burned fronds.... This all tells points on hardiness!

alberto i think you misunderstand me..I am referring to the possible hybrid and not Jubaea.

[iamjv]

I am thinking the BxJ hybrid, which there are many sources for on the internet, would work well for you. I have one and it's grown well over the years and has seen mid-teen temps on a couple of occasions (most recent this past winter) without any damage! Jv

[iamjv]

Here is a pic of mine after this winter (low of 16F).... Jv

[Phil]

I agree with John: Jubaea X Butia. I got reports of tolerating 13.8 degrees F. And, faster than the pure Jubaea.

Phil

[PalmGuyWC]

I can't report from personal experience, but I would think Jubaea X Butia eriospatha would be the most cold hardy and the next best bet would be Butia eriospatha X Jubaea. They are not all the same size but I have 8 cocoid hybrids in the ground and the fastest growing has been Butia X Parajubaea. It even grows slowly for me during my chilly winters. There are reports that B X P has survived 15F (-10C) which is pretty amazing since Parajubaeas are not all that cold hardy.

I have a Bujubaea X Syagrus that's been in the ground for less than two years and it seems to be growing at a good rate, though I don't know how cold hardy it might be.

Dick

[Alberto]

...............................It may grow faster, have a better shape...etc but thats a different thing.

No thats not a different thing. Jubaeas are sloooowwwwwwwwwwwww......

If you have a hardy palm,that grows four times faster then a Jubaea, then the bigger size the hybrid palm will reach in shorter time ,the faster substitution of frost burned fronds.... This all tells points on hardiness!

alberto i think you misunderstand me..I am referring to the possible hybrid and not Jubaea.

Hi Moh! I know you are refering to the hybrid! I didn´t misunderstood you!

Maybe you don´t understand (bad English) my point....

BTW You wrote: ´´Jubaea,jubaea Its proven hardy here´´.... Where is here??

[reggieroo]

Ok guys I've been thrown a curve ball by my local palms & exotic guy. I buy most of my tropicals from him but he doesn't normally have Jubaea chilensis so I just popped by for some advise.

He has said he can get me one & will get me some prices & pictures hopefully by tomorrow but here's the dilema I'm having right now.

He has a very large Butia capitata that is recovering from some transit damage & has told me I can have it for £120 & I mean this thing is huge. The other one he got on the same transport which is perfect is £375. He had priced the one with some damage at £150 but said I could have it for £120 I stood under it & it towers over me, must be 7 foot in the pot & the trunk is huge. I took some pictures although they don't really show how big it is but you guys will get the idea. I wouldn't normally be able to afford such a large palm.

So now I'm undecided again but am leaning towards the Butia. I have £150 to spend & he said for £150 I won't get a very big Jubaea chilensis for that price & it should still be protected in Winter. So if I still have to wrap & protect then should I go for a larger palm for the money & just accept that every Winter I need to get busy wrapping stuff up?

[Ken Johnson]

Will the Andean Wax Palm grow there?

[kahili]

How cold does it usually get there in the winter? How cold was it last winter when your Butia died? How large was the Butia that died and how long was it in the ground before it died?

That seems like a not very damaged palm to me-esp if the roots were never damaged-which is the key thing to think about, and it has plenty of green leaves to help it get established this summer should you get it in the ground soon. Its also not a bad price to pay for it-converted over to dollars, its about $221.00. I would pay that for that size palm. I would think about protecting it the first winter if the temps fall below 15-17 degrees (-8 C) to be on the safe side.

lol that guy's grhouse is scary looking!

[Darold Petty]

Will the Andean Wax Palm grow there?

Hi Ken;

My understanding, and one direct experience is that Ceroxylons are damaged in the mid 20's F (-4 or -5 C).

[reggieroo]

How cold does it usually get there in the winter? How cold was it last winter when your Butia died? How large was the Butia that died and how long was it in the ground before it died?

That seems like a not very damaged palm to me-esp if the roots were never damaged-which is the key thing to think about, and it has plenty of green leaves to help it get established this summer should you get it in the ground soon. Its also not a bad price to pay for it-converted over to dollars, its about $221.00. I would pay that for that size palm. I would think about protecting it the first winter if the temps fall below 15-17 degrees (-8 C) to be on the safe side.

lol that guy's grhouse is scary looking!

My last Butia capitata was only a £50 plant, not very big but still big enough just. It was planted late last Summer & had no protection at all & then we got some real bad weather, worst in 30 years. Some neighbours five neighbours in fact reported as low as -17c, & one had a digital weather station in his garden to back up the claims. When he told me how cold it was I was shocked, no wonder I lost 9 palms. All I protected was a 4 ft dicksonia antarctica & my Musa basjoo.

You are right about the large Butia capitata not looking very damaged. He said that it was tied up too long in transit & some of the leaves snapped off & also got a little wind damage at his place. The growth in the centre looks fine with no damage what so ever. He has been looking after it & giving it a good feed to strengthen it up & also kept it out of the wind by putting it where it's pictured. It just looks a little scruffy looking & has lost a few leaves. I'm on good terms with the chap & he looks after me every time I go see him.

Edited June 15, 2010 by reggieroo

[kahili]

Holy crap!! That is really cold. If that is not anywhere close to what you normally get, then, without a doubt, I would get it. One of the keys to success for you (and me) is to get a palm planted as early in the spring as possible....so get going with that shovel!! lol and also give it some slow release fert as soon as you plant it to help with the root growth. I love a good bargain.

[Takil-Explorer]

Well Raleigh has a much better climate for growing palms anyway, despite the odd cold winter. The summers are much longer and hotter then in the UK. So the palms go into winter with much more vigour then in the chilly UK.

Alexander

[Geoff]

this is by far the hardiest of the feather palms... though rarely 'grown' in the colder temperate zones (not sure why not)

[reggieroo]

this is by far the hardiest of the feather palms... though rarely 'grown' in the colder temperate zones (not sure why not)

What palm is that?

[joe_OC]

A cellular phone tower palm.

[edbrown_III]

Butia capitata's have survived below 5F here in Florida and further north. I saw loads of them around Americus Ga afer the freezes.

Jubeas are probably tourhger (except in FL) --- Freezes here in the south were sudden and pronounced with high gale force winds . these were followed with warm periods afterwards and very intense spring droughts after the freeze events. Only 12 or so palms survived Jax after the freezes of 85' 7F at Jax airport I saw 12F at my house on the wall themometer. These might be a bit different than English events in humidity, wind chill etc.

-- Butia capitata, Brahea armata , Brahea aculeata Livistona chinensis , Chamerops , Trachycarpus, Cham. microspadix and radicalis.

Sabal minor, etonia, S. mexicana S. palmetto---Rhapidophylum, Rhapis humilus Phoenix dactylifera P. caneriensis and P. sylvestris. ----

There was a lone Jubea at Walter Rogers place in Ortega-- a few clumping palms survived as regrowth. A. wrightii, Arenga tremula Rhapis excelsa

Best

[reggieroo]

Well Guys I couldn't resist that bargain of a butia at the start of summer but it hasn't done so well. The day it arrived It noticed the newest spear going a little dry & a few weeks later it started to turn brown! Then a few more of the damaged leaves did the same. I got it planted in the ground as soon as it arrived, wasn't easy either on my own, it was heavy as hell. Anyway I expected it to make a recovery over the rest of the summer but it has stayed just the same as it was the few weeks after I planted it. It hasn't got any worse though apart form some fungus on the brown part of the dead leaves since we have started to get wet weather, I treated with some fungicide & seems to have got rid..

Now winter is coming & I'm concerned about how it will cope if we get another bad winter like last year (-17c). What I have done this year is take more action to look after my plants. With this butia I have constructed a shelter best I can with what I had lying around the garden to keep it dry. Not sure if I should wrap it though as that will make any fungicide it might get worse I'm sure. Maybe just wrap the base & fleece round the sides of the shelter & put some sort of heater in the shelter? I think it needs extra special care this winter if I want any chance of it pulling through. For now though I have left the shelter open to keep some airflow.

[sarasota alex]

this is by far the hardiest of the feather palms... though rarely 'grown' in the colder temperate zones (not sure why not)

Geoff, I hope it's a female, so we could collect some cell phones in the late fall.

[kahili]

reggieroo-somehow this butia looks different-browner leaves and more elongated leaves etc. But still very much alive. I may have overestimated the warmth (or lack of)of your summers? Did you fertilize it this summer with some slow release fert high in nitrogen?

I am thinking that it was not a fungus on the leaves, but perhaps signs of stress from either too much or too little water somewhere along the line here. At any rate-there is only one fungus that is at all active in cooler weather and that is pythium (and only some variations of it) and that would not be showing up on the leaves-so you would not have to worry about wrapping the leaves because of a fungus. Usually if I wrap a palm in the winter, it is for a very short amt of time (mostly one night or two, although onceI did leave them wrapped for a week due to a heavy snow fall). Were you thinking of leaving it wrapped for a long time? I am also not sure how you would wrap it without cutting off those long leaves? If it gets super cold, then I would wrap the crap out of it however which way you can!

[reggieroo]

reggieroo-somehow this butia looks different-browner leaves and more elongated leaves etc. But still very much alive. I may have overestimated the warmth (or lack of)of your summers? Did you fertilize it this summer with some slow release fert high in nitrogen?

I am thinking that it was not a fungus on the leaves, but perhaps signs of stress from either too much or too little water somewhere along the line here. At any rate-there is only one fungus that is at all active in cooler weather and that is pythium (and only some variations of it) and that would not be showing up on the leaves-so you would not have to worry about wrapping the leaves because of a fungus. Usually if I wrap a palm in the winter, it is for a very short amt of time (mostly one night or two, although onceI did leave them wrapped for a week due to a heavy snow fall). Were you thinking of leaving it wrapped for a long time? I am also not sure how you would wrap it without cutting off those long leaves? If it gets super cold, then I would wrap the crap out of it however which way you can!

I gave it some chempak palm fertiliser throughout the summer & plenty of water. The fungus I seen on the brown parts of the leaves was some black spotting that appeared as soon as we started to get the wet weather. I was thinking of wrapping it for the whole 3 months of winter as that's what I was told to do by various people but now I've built that shelter it will be impossible to wrap it proper. I thought it more important to keep it dry so the centre doesn't get too wet. I've thought about just putting fleece around the shelter & maybe some sort of heater too.

Edited November 12, 2010 by reggieroo

[Takil-Explorer]

I had a young Butia eriospatha planted in 2008. Its first winter,in 2009 was its last one. A week of frosty weather with one night of -9 was enough to kill it! And winter 2010 was colder with snow. The thing here is that bassically half of the year its damp or wet chilly to cold weather. Summers are short with only arround 15 days ayear with temperatures above 25C. In places like Northeren Florida they can get -14C and even colder. But its always a short winter, most of those 365 days are pleasant to very hot!

I am at 52 degrees north, the climate is not a palm friendly one, but a depressing one...

And Parajubaea, not hardy here, well its hardy under glass ofcourse.

The only palms growing well here are Trachycarpus fortunei and Chamaerops humillis when planted at a sheltered spot. Some more Trachycarpi like T. takil will be hardy enough here probably. But future will tell that.

Rhapidophyllum and some Sbals are also hardy but very slow growers. So 2 fronds a year wich often get ugly from our sometimes brutal windy winters...

Alexander

[Takil-Explorer]

Phoenix plastica would be an option for some here I guess, and even for Siberia.

But there are limits...

Alexander

[Takil-Explorer]

And red palm weevil proof to!

Alexander

[AggiePalms]

Phoenix plastica would be an option for some here I guess, and even for Siberia.

But there are limits...

Alexander

No, no, no, there are no limits...go for Cocos plasticus!

Seriously, I know you said you can't grow B. eriospatha (or B. capitatus)where you are, but given your rainfall, I would go for one of these again since they are a bit more able to take the extra water. I would work hard to encourage it and I think it will be fine, once established. Mine took down to 20 F several nights last winter (its second in the ground), and we get fairly high rainfall. Mine looks good and is growing fast. I put it in two years ago, first year it acclimated, second year it has taken off. No leaf damage during the cold freezes, which lasted nearly every night during January.

Or, something totally different, Rhapidophyllum is also a good choice; you said it grows very slowly there, though. Mine already has a foot or more of clear trunk and a diameter of 8-10 ft in only 7 years, as an understory to three trees at different levels above it (not much light). It certainly can take the cold, puts out quite a few leaves each year here, and makes a very good unusual mound if you could kick-start its growth.

Best of luck; keep trying and you will find the one perfect palm for your yard's microclimate.

[Takil-Explorer]

Phoenix plastica would be an option for some here I guess, and even for Siberia.

But there are limits...

Alexander

No, no, no, there are no limits...go for Cocos plasticus!

Seriously, I know you said you can't grow B. eriospatha (or B. capitatus)where you are, but given your rainfall, I would go for one of these again since they are a bit more able to take the extra water. I would work hard to encourage it and I think it will be fine, once established. Mine took down to 20 F several nights last winter (its second in the ground), and we get fairly high rainfall. Mine looks good and is growing fast. I put it in two years ago, first year it acclimated, second year it has taken off. No leaf damage during the cold freezes, which lasted nearly every night during January.

Or, something totally different, Rhapidophyllum is also a good choice; you said it grows very slowly there, though. Mine already has a foot or more of clear trunk and a diameter of 8-10 ft in only 7 years, as an understory to three trees at different levels above it (not much light). It certainly can take the cold, puts out quite a few leaves each year here, and makes a very good unusual mound if you could kick-start its growth.

Best of luck; keep trying and you will find the one perfect palm for your yard's microclimate.

Well about limits, I would never plant a plastic palm for sure.

About the climate here in Leidschendam, near The Hague, and Savannah there is a BIG difference. I live at 52 degrees north, Savannah is at 32 degrees north! Same latitude as Marocco! So you have a MUCH LONGER growingseason! Many people have tried Butia here and the Uk, most lost them or had at least serious spearpull. Only in the mildest areas and microclimates it survived. In Georgia you may have wet weather in the winter as well but in general its warmer there so it dries upquickly. In Holland its often a bad combination of rain, snow, frost and rain again. Not a good combination for most palms...

In areas with long hot summers palms are much better resistant to cold and frosty weathere then where I live. And Savannah basiccally gets a tropical summer! Its even farther south then Madeira! And I see you get a lot of Tillandsia usneoides there, here I have tried it with no results! But you see it often in under glas in botanical gardens.

Our lowest temperature here was -17 30 years ago. But -15 I have had here several times!

Our average yeartemperature here is 10 degrees Celcius. In your area something like 18 C! Thats 8 degrees warmer! A hell of a difference!

Alexander

[greekpalm]

Phoenix plastica would be an option for some here I guess, and even for Siberia.

But there are limits...

Alexander

No, no, no, there are no limits...go for Cocos plasticus!

Seriously, I know you said you can't grow B. eriospatha (or B. capitatus)where you are, but given your rainfall, I would go for one of these again since they are a bit more able to take the extra water. I would work hard to encourage it and I think it will be fine, once established. Mine took down to 20 F several nights last winter (its second in the ground), and we get fairly high rainfall. Mine looks good and is growing fast. I put it in two years ago, first year it acclimated, second year it has taken off. No leaf damage during the cold freezes, which lasted nearly every night during January.

Or, something totally different, Rhapidophyllum is also a good choice; you said it grows very slowly there, though. Mine already has a foot or more of clear trunk and a diameter of 8-10 ft in only 7 years, as an understory to three trees at different levels above it (not much light). It certainly can take the cold, puts out quite a few leaves each year here, and makes a very good unusual mound if you could kick-start its growth.

Best of luck; keep trying and you will find the one perfect palm for your yard's microclimate.

Well about limits, I would never plant a plastic palm for sure.

About the climate here in Leidschendam, near The Hague, and Savannah there is a BIG difference. I live at 52 degrees north, Savannah is at 32 degrees north! Same latitude as Marocco! So you have a MUCH LONGER growingseason! Many people have tried Butia here and the Uk, most lost them or had at least serious spearpull. Only in the mildest areas and microclimates it survived. In Georgia you may have wet weather in the winter as well but in general its warmer there so it dries upquickly. In Holland its often a bad combination of rain, snow, frost and rain again. Not a good combination for most palms...

In areas with long hot summers palms are much better resistant to cold and frosty weathere then where I live. And Savannah basiccally gets a tropical summer! Its even farther south then Madeira! And I see you get a lot of Tillandsia usneoides there, here I have tried it with no results! But you see it often in under glas in botanical gardens.

Our lowest temperature here was -17 30 years ago. But -15 I have had here several times!

Our average yeartemperature here is 10 degrees Celcius. In your area something like 18 C! Thats 8 degrees warmer! A hell of a difference!

Alexander

there are a few CIDP in London ... if someone goes on Google Maps with the coordinates 51.494667,-0.125023 will see (with Google street view or the pictures) a big CIDP in the middle of the roundabout...

does anyone knows how they keep this beauty alive in London ?

[PalmTom]

Reggieroo,

Listen, here in NW Florida Butia capitata's ( I guess they're classified as Butia odorata now) have proven quite cold hardy. When I was a kid, in the 1970's and 80's, we experienced many extremely cold winters. I can remember at least 5 winters where we saw single digit temps. In 1978 we had a cold event that lasted several days with a low of 4 degress and coupled with about a foot of snow. All of the large Butia's ( those with 6 feet or more of clear trunk) made it through with only moderate frond damage. Many of those butias are still alive today. So, I think you will be fine with your recent purchase but, I would deffinitely protect it from brutal winters until it has grow a few more feet in size. Plus, the fruit are delicious! Good luck.

Tom

[Takil-Explorer]

London has a much warmer climate as the surrounding areas as its a large urban area. And the South Eastern Uk is milder then the Netherlands because during cold winters the cold air from the east is always warmed up a bit by the Northsea. In Essex you get an area called the Essex Riviera. Paul Spracklin grows a lot of exotic plants like Agaves there wich are not hardy in my are unfortunately. And I have tried several ones in the past here.

Alexander

[AggiePalms]

Takil-Explorer, you are exactly right; our climate is a lot warmer than yours, and we have a longer growing season, which helps a lot. Even with that, we cannot grow most species in the ground, and my Queen was the only one in the region that survived two nights of freezes down to -9C a few years ago, and it totally defoliated. Therefore, of course anything that is marginal here is impossible where you are.

Except for our natives, only Washingtonia, Butia, Phoenix, Trachycarpus, Chamaerops and a few others are consistently reliable to mature size. Even with our hot/humid summers, most other species don't survive more than one or two colder than normal winters. For example, I have a Caryota that with extreme efforts has survived 7 years in the ground, but that is very rare.

So, if our natives and hardy exotics won't make it where you are, then your options are pretty limited, as you know. You have the double problem of very cool moist annual average, and low winter temps. Being a "zone pusher", I try some marginal palms for us that survive because of our summers, but look poor at the end of winter. However, there may not be many species for you to experiment with except the ones people have mentioned on here; I don't know if even the hardiest of these will take an annual 10C mean temp for many years. Except perhaps, maybe, luckily one of the few species we can't grow because of our humid summers, but I can't vouch for their cold/humid hardiness. Best of luck to all you UK and northern European growers! We are sending our Gulf Stream heat as fast as possible!