Bismarkia Spacing...

[OverGrown]

I have a lack of options.. The farthest distance I can plant two bizzies in the only available section in my planter is 11 feet from the center of the palms. Do you think this is too close? I remember looking at the ones from Balboa Park but can't recall the distance, I did notice one of the bizzies planted there was developing a crooked crown from being too close. If this doesn't work, I may have to do some transplanting of other plants.

What do you guys think?

[Lowey]

Mine are about that far apart and are doing OK, the leaves overlap a bit, but it is not enough to make them lean away from each other

[OverGrown]

Mine are about that far apart and are doing OK, the leaves overlap a bit, but it is not enough to make them lean away from each other

How big are they? Would you happen to have a picture? The ones in San Diego looked fine until they got to a certain height.

[Lowey]

Sorry, no pics, I will see if I can take some when the rain stops, they both have about eight feet of trunk.

[KPL]

I'm no expert, but that sounds close. We have some six feet apart. They look great, but I'm not recommending that. One is taller, therefore, it works. We have others that are about 15ft. apart and they look fantastic. I'll ask Bo-Göran to send a picture or two.

Good luck!

Karolyn

[bgl]

11 ft center-to-center is a bit close, but will work. Two photos below, one where they are 16 ft apart, and then the other where they're actually only 6 ft apart. That's obviously way too close, and is acceptable only because they're different height. Excuse the brown fronds - have to take care of them soon! And it was almost dark when the photos were taken.

[OverGrown]

Here are the ones from Balboa Park, San Diego. The one on the right had a slight kink to it.

[Walter John]

Plant one now and the other in 9 months.

[Kumar]

I have a few related questions, since I am also planning to acquire a bismarck next week.. firstly - Can it grow in full shade? I have an unused 'plot' measuring 6 by 8 feet in one corner of my lawn beneath a large mango tree, and fenced on two sides by a 10 foot high wall. secondly - will this space be sufficient ? and how fast do these grow ? At present there is about 20 feet of 'airspace' before the lowest of the peripheral mango branches.

[bgl]

Yes, you can grow a Bismarckia in full shade. It will be MUCH slower growing, which apparently is a good thing in your case. It'll be many many years before it gets to 20 ft in height. Probably 20-25 years from a small plant. The space is a bit more troublesome, though. 6 x 8 ft is not enough. It will still grow of course, but the fronds are going to pushing against those walls. From a small plant, and in about 10-15 years you would need a space approx. 10 x 10 ft to accomodate a Bismarckia. That's in full shade. In full sun it would need much more, and much sooner.

[OverGrown]

11 ft center-to-center is a bit close, but will work. Two photos below, one where they are 16 ft apart, and then the other where they're actually only 6 ft apart. That's obviously way too close, and is acceptable only because they're different height. Excuse the brown fronds - have to take care of them soon! And it was almost dark when the photos were taken.

Thank for posting those pics Bo! That is interesting... I keep hearing/reading about 20ft crown spreads on bizzies. It seems yours are slightly less than that because of your zone. I wonder how different mine will look in the hot dry inland environment I'm working with.

[bgl]

Have to leave in a few minutes but will be back later this afternoon. Will check length of fronds etc a bit more in detail then.

[amazondk]

I have a bunch of little seedling planted, 9 I believe. I spaced them out at approximately 4 meters from tree to tree. I think that will work from what I have seen

dk

[Jeff in St Pete]

This is a triple planting that I saw in Jamaica earlier this year. You can only see two of them in the first photo. The second photo shows the third Bismarckia in the back. What struck me as odd is that the third palm is curving towards the other two instead of away from them. It was also quite a bit smaller than the others. They were planted in a triangle about 10 feet apart.

[bgl]

Got home a bit too late to check on things here, but this photo could be of interest. This is a group of Bismarckias at the World Botanical Garden in Umauma, about 15 miles or so north of Hilo. I believe there are 5 Bismarckias in this group, some of them obviously planted pretty close together!

[bgl]

Bumping this for Iwan's benefit.

[Kumar]

Bumping this for Iwan's benefit.

Hello Bo, After reading your reply to my post (on shade planting the bismarck), I finally planted the one I bought 8 feet from the house, 4 feet from the edge of the lawn and six feet from a D. Decaryi (which is also 8/4 feet from the house /lawn), with both sharing a spot that gets 4-5 hours of sun a day. What is your view on the growth rate of the two - that is to say will they 'clash' or will the d.decaryi go up first? I know each of these species is a sight to best appreciate by itself but I preferred both in the sun to the bismarck in the shade.

[bgl]

They will certainly clash. I'm sure the decaryi will be faster, but of course it's a smaller palm (eventually) than the Bismarckia, so at some point the decaryi will slow down and the Bismarckia will pass it. That being said, six feet apart is VERY close, and will no doubt be an interesting experience!

[trioderob]

I have a few related questions, since I am also planning to acquire a bismarck next week.. firstly - Can it grow in full shade? I have an unused 'plot' measuring 6 by 8 feet in one corner of my lawn beneath a large mango tree, and fenced on two sides by a 10 foot high wall. secondly - will this space be sufficient ? and how fast do these grow ? At present there is about 20 feet of 'airspace' before the lowest of the peripheral mango branches.

dont grow a Bismarkia in full shade, they want full blazing sun and heat all day long. they like 85 degree days and 12 hours of full sun.

dont shade it at all.

Edited July 20, 2010 by trioderob

[Jadd Correia]

Bump on this awesome older thread.

Question to those who are interested? Can Bismarckia Nobilis be made to grow in a 'double' or 'triple' planting fashion similar to the group of Washies planted along the Boardwalk in Santa Cruz Ca?

Pics below are screen grabs of the largest clump of Washies along the beach walk (I think its 5 and 3 clumped close together). Can Bismarckia trunks develop while in contact with each other? Obvious point will be the intense canopy competition if you triple plant bizzies, but I was more curious about the palm structure development as a clump.

The pic above in Jamaica (thank you) shows a triple that is planted with 10 ft spacing. Can a triple be made to grow and develop in a say a 15 gallon pot with 3 smaller 1 gallon seedlings planted together?

Other obvious point is the sensitive tap root nature of a bizzie. I lost one last year when we put in a new fence line and my just establishing bizzie was yanked out in one day (no root pruning) by the gardener and it did not like the attempted transplant and immediately declined and died.

Mostly curious because I have a perfect placement for 1 Bismarckia on my property that gets the best sun and drainage plus is surrounded by concrete etc. If I can plant 3 in the same planting space, I might go for it and see what comes of the clump.

Thanks.

[Jadd Correia]

Double Attalea cohune. Awesome.

[James B]

I believe it could it just comes down to your aesthetics.

If you like the look it’s your garden at the end of the day. I like more of a jungle look myself so I don’t follow conventional spacing recommend by some which is based on the Bismarkia as a stand alone statement palm. 
 

I have a Bismarckia that is only 8-9 feet from a Beccariophoneix knowing they will eventually have fronds overlapping some and I’m ok with that. 

[sonoranfans]

29 minutes ago, James B said:

I believe it could it just comes down to your aesthetics.

If you like the look it’s your garden at the end of the day. I like more of a jungle look myself so I don’t follow conventional spacing recommend by some which is based on the Bismarkia as a stand alone statement palm. 
 

I have a Bismarckia that is only 8-9 feet from a Beccariophoneix knowing they will eventually have fronds overlapping some and I’m ok with that. 

The bismarckia will win that battle as its leaves are tougher than alfredii's.  I have a number of palms in my yard that beat up other nearby palms.  C Oliviformis just tears up archontophoenix leaflets, rips them off the petioles in 30-40mph+ wind.  If you dont want leaves damaging each other, you have to trim them up a bit from the horizontal, remove green leaves.  Same is true for other palms; trim them up more, but I dont want to trim them if I dont have to.  Alfredii is not self shedding so I do have to remove them but my biz sheds nicely all by itself.  And that is a good thing since today the clean trunk is 20' up before any leaves.  One way to group bizzies without that hassle could be to plant one, grow it to a couple feet of trunk then plant another one 11' trunk to trunk.  Since they are 20-22' wide with leaves tot he horizontal, the older ones trunk will not touch the new one and their crowns should be offset.  One downside with growing them close without a height offset could be that leaves dont fall off right away, the dead leaves will be a bit tangled and hold each other up there longer.  I think those considering placing a bismarckia in a small spot should reconsider their choices.  Sometimes the foot doesn't fit the shoe in the long run(5+ years).  

[James B]

13 minutes ago, sonoranfans said:

The bismarckia will win that battle as its leaves are tougher than alfredii's.  I have a number of palms in my yard that beat up other nearby palms.  C Oliviformis just tears up archontophoenix leaflets, rips them off the petioles in 30-40mph+ wind.  If you dont want leaves damaging each other, you have to trim them up a bit from the horizontal, remove green leaves.  Same is true for other palms; trim them up more, but I dont want to trim them if I dont have to.  Alfredii is not self shedding so I do have to remove them but my biz sheds nicely all by itself.  And that is a good thing since today the clean trunk is 20' up before any leaves.  One way to group bizzies without that hassle could be to plant one, grow it to a couple feet of trunk then plant another one 11' trunk to trunk.  Since they are 20-22' wide with leaves tot he horizontal, the older ones trunk will not touch the new one and their crowns should be offset.  One downside with growing them close without a height offset could be that leaves dont fall off right away, the dead leaves will be a bit tangled and hold each other up there longer.  I think those considering placing a bismarckia in a small spot should reconsider their choices.  Sometimes the foot doesn't fit the shoe in the long run(5+ years).  

That was my long term plan if the Bismarkia became a problem and started to damage the leaves of the Beccariophoenix. I would trim the row of leaves that fall 90 degrees and parallel to the ground. 
 

B.Nobilis is readily available at big box stores so it would be the one edited if it became a problem long term. That and I currently have 2 at the moment in ground in different spots in my garden.

[sonoranfans]

On 8/4/2024 at 12:21 PM, James B said:

I believe it could it just comes down to your aesthetics.

If you like the look it’s your garden at the end of the day. I like more of a jungle look myself so I don’t follow conventional spacing recommend by some which is based on the Bismarkia as a stand alone statement palm. 
 

I have a Bismarckia that is only 8-9 feet from a Beccariophoneix knowing they will eventually have fronds overlapping some and I’m ok with that. 

My view is that there are palms for grouping and then there are palms that are difficult in groups.   Large palms eat up lots of ground but if you have the ground it cant hurt to try.  The most common mistake I have seen on palmtalk is spacing with house, other palms etc.  People buy small palms and underestimate their mature size.  Alfredii can be a bigger palm than even bismarckia if taken care of properly.  I had to rip out a borassus too close to my alfredii, that $20 palm cost me $700 to remove and it would have be even more expensive in the future due to increased size and labor costs spiking.   I have made my share of spacing mistakes, but I am pretty confident I am done.