Palms suggestions for shady place

[basilios]

I have some space in my building's part of the garden that gets little sun and I'd like to plant a few palms (my space is limited..). What species would you suggest? Till now I've thought of arenga engleri, livistona chinensis, rhapis and maybe some chamaedorea.

I've already planted a couple of chamaedorea radicalis seedlings, a ch. microspadix about 1.20m. tall, a rhapidophyllum hystrix baby and a sabal causiarum seedling (I have some spare seedlings of this species grown from seed) in a place that gets maybe a couple of hours of direct sun. I know sabals like a lot of sun, but is it impossible to grow them in mostly shade?

A final question. There's a more sunny part of the garden, that gets maybe 4 hours of direct sun. Would a queen palm be a good idea for planting there?

[paulgila]

i think an archontophoenix would be nicer than a queen & they seem to like it with more shade.there are lots of good choices like a.maxima or purpurea etc. it will also be more slender than a queen,which is good if the space is somewhat limited,as you mentioned.

[Zeeth]

Sabals grow here in everywhere from 100% full on blazing sun to 100% deep jungle shade. They stretch out a little shade, but there's no ill effects

[basilios]

Pohonkelapa : I, too, thought (and I'm still thinking) of a nice archontophoenix...the thing is, every few years we get a tough cold spell (usually from Russia) with some snow etc., and I believe a queen would be a safer choice. These occasional cold spells may kill an archontophoenix but there's no cold spell in our area that could harm a queen. Also, the place where I think of putting it has enough space for a queen, so this is not an issue...But I haven't ruled out archontophoenix yet. Is a. cunninghamiana still considered the hardiest?

Zeeth : Good to know this!

[Jonathan]

...But I haven't ruled out archontophoenix yet. Is a. cunninghamiana still considered the hardiest?

Yes it is - put it in the shady part of your garden so it is less exposed to extreme cold and it will love you for it!

Cheers,

Jonathan

[peachy]

Phoenix roebellini can live happily in sun or shade and can take a great deal of cold as long as there is no frost directly on them. Queen palms are hardier than A.cunninghamia, although cunninghamia can take a great deal of cold and frost, at least down to -5c.

Peachy

[MattyB]

Sounds like you get some cold. So for the spot that gets some sun I'd suggest Dypsis decipiens. For the shadey spot I'd go with more Chamaedoreas.

[basilios]

Matt : We do get some cold - we have considerably cooler winters than South California. Our average daytime highs and nightime lows for January are 14C / 57F and 8C / 46F respectively, which means that we don't get much heat for at least 3 months. The good thing is, we very rarely get freezing temperatures (maybe twice every 10 years)and if we do, it will most likely be something like -1C or -2C, which means we don't have extremes. For example we never have the low temps of central Florida, but our consistently cool winter weather puts a lot of limits on our palm choices...

Dypsis decipiens would be a good choice, but in Europe I haven't been able to find anything but very small seedlings and it could take them a lot of years to grow to a size worthy of talking about. Besides d. decipiens seem to be quite pricey...Queens and archonto are much cheaper and faster growing, and they are more available for us here.

Peachy : Ph. roebellinii is indeed a species to consider. It would be bulletproof in my climate and it's nice looking. The only problem is, a good size specimen could cost a lot and I'm on a tight budget(hey, I live in Greece, remember?)

[basilios]

For the shady place : do you think a Kentia could be a good candidate?

[AJQ]

Every time I try A.cunninghamia, they fry at -2C/28.4F.

I would be interested to know where I can get one that takes frost at -5C/23F.

Rgds Andy.

Edited July 16, 2010 by AJQ

[basilios]

Ok, here are some pics.

This is the part of the garden in question, facing north but in a pretty protected spot.

Same place from a different angle, you can see a few small palms that I've planted.

A small rhapidophyllum hystrix on the left and a ch. microspadix, about 4' tall on the right.

Sabal causiarum, 4 years old grown from seed, been in the ground for about a month.

[basilios]

Chamaedorea radicalis, 2 seedlings in different stages of growth.

This is the sunnier spot, where I'm going to put a bigger specimen as soon as I'll decide which species to invest on...Next to the hole you can see the trunk of an old CIDP, maybe 40 years old but still relatively small due to neglect, lack of fertilizer and watering and also the fact that it's growing on a very rocky soil...

[basilios]

But if you want to see a BIG canary palm, take a look at this one, growing just across the street from my house, by the seaside. This is a really massive tree (look at the person in the pic for scale). It's the biggest CIDP in the area and luckily one of the few still alive from the red weevil menace. My theory is that since it's the taller tree around and it's crown is always full of birds, it makes sense that birds have eaten all the weevils that tried to approach and attack the palm.

[gilles06]

Of course kentia (howea forestiana) is a good candidate.

it can also tolerate drought...

Salut.

[basilios]

Thanks Gill...Exactly how much cold can a kentia take?

So, instead of buying/ordering new plants from Germany or Spain, I was thinking of using some of the palms I already have in pots, plus a couple of things I could easily fetch from local stores.

Possible candidates for the shadier part of the garden :

- Kentia (can buy one)

- Livistona chinensis (already have one)

- Rhopalostylis baueri (already have one)

- Ceroxylon amazonicum (already have one - not sure how much cold/shade can take)

- Chamaedorea costaricana (small seedling - hardiness?)

- Archontophoenix myolensis / tuckeri (got both, not sure if they're good for permanent outdoors planting...)

- Phoenix roebellinii (can buy one)

Possible candidates for the sunnier (but not completely sunny - maybe 4 hours of direct sun daily) part of the garden :

- Queen palm (already have one)

- Parajubaea torallyi (already have one)

- Livistona decora (already have one)

- Sabal causiarum (already have some)

- Archonto myolensis / tuckeri (...)

What do you think?

[peachy]

Ravenea glauca will live happily in sun or shade, take heat or cold and is a very quick growing palm too. Kentia are too slow growing.

Peachy

[basilios]

Ravenea glauca will live happily in sun or shade

Can't find one...

[gilles06]

Kentia is easy to find even in big size, it can withstand about -4°C...

Kalispera.

[paulgila]

dont waste the real estate on p.roebelliniii.

i think all of the palms on your list would be great.i do,however, suggest that you plant a good mixture of palmate & pinnate palms for balance.

[basilios]

Pohonkelapa : Exactly my thought.

[paulgila]

do you have the expression "great minds think alike" in greece?

if not,i want credit for introducing it!

[DoomsDave]

For the shady place : do you think a Kentia could be a good candidate?

It would be excellent, though it would suffer in a freeze, and take a while to recover, so long as the freeze isn't too severe. Also try an H. belomoriana.

[DoomsDave]

Thanks Gill...Exactly how much cold can a kentia take?

So, instead of buying/ordering new plants from Germany or Spain, I was thinking of using some of the palms I already have in pots, plus a couple of things I could easily fetch from local stores.

Possible candidates for the shadier part of the garden :

- Kentia (can buy one)

- Livistona chinensis (already have one)

- Rhopalostylis baueri (already have one)

- Ceroxylon amazonicum (already have one - not sure how much cold/shade can take)

- Chamaedorea costaricana (small seedling - hardiness?)

- Archontophoenix myolensis / tuckeri (got both, not sure if they're good for permanent outdoors planting...)

- Phoenix roebellinii (can buy one)

Possible candidates for the sunnier (but not completely sunny - maybe 4 hours of direct sun daily) part of the garden :

- Queen palm (already have one)

- Parajubaea torallyi (already have one)

- Livistona decora (already have one)

- Sabal causiarum (already have some)

- Archonto myolensis / tuckeri (...)

What do you think?

All of what you described will work as you suggest, though I'd give the Parajubes moer sun if you can. If they start in the shade, but grow into the sun (they get tall) they could be wonderful for your place.

How about a picture? How much space do you have?

[basilios]

Of course we have it! "Τα μεγάλα πνεύματα συναντώνται" (how do you like it in greek?)

[basilios]

How about a picture? How much space do you have?

Dave take a look towars the middle of the thread, I've posted some pics. Keep in mind that for the sunnier spot I have space only for 1 palm, so it will be a tough call...

[paulgila]

Of course we have it! "Τα μεγάλα πνεύματα συναντώνται" (how do you like it in greek?)

that could say anything & i wouldnt know the difference!

[paulgila]

How about a picture? How much space do you have?

Dave take a look towars the middle of the thread, I've posted some pics. Keep in mind that for the sunnier spot I have space only for 1 palm, so it will be a tough call...

5 yard penalty on dave from so-cal for not viewing entire thread & missing pix.

2 more yards for hyphenating "so-cal."

[basilios]

Kostas can confirm it (or not )

[Palm crazy]

After so many good suggestion I would add these or at least look at seeing if you can order them....

Caryota ‘Himalaya’

Plectocomia himalayana

Arenga engleri

Dypsis baronii

Brahea moorei

Chamaedorea plumosa

Guihaia argyrata

Linospadix monostachya

Prestoea acuminata

[paulgila]

i believe you,basilio!

thanks for posting pix,we only rarely see any from yer part of the world.

yer garden has alot of potential,i like the walkways & the surrounding wall.it will be ideal for palm viewing!

[basilios]

After so many good suggestion I would add these or at least look at seeing if you can order them....

Caryota ‘Himalaya’

Plectocomia himalayana

Arenga engleri

Dypsis baronii

Brahea moorei

Chamaedorea plumosa

Guihaia argyrata

Linospadix monostachya

Prestoea acuminata

Thanks for the suggestions... Well I'm not very fond of the Caryota family, nor of plectocomia. Also I don't think prestoea stands a chance in my winter climate. The rest are interesting ideas, although somewhat difficult to find in the market... Linospadix is actually a great idea, but where to find it?

[paulgila]

i can tell you from experience that plectomia is VERY dangerous.

[mcwolf]

Hi Basilios,

My Arenga Engleri only gets afternoon sun in summer otherwise hardly any and it grows very, very slow in this relativly cold spot. Therefore I would rather suggest it for the

sunnier spot. It's a nice gap filler or understory palm since it doesn't trunk. I definitely vote for Kentias since they are the hardiest of the tropical looking feather palms. Livis grow in any space and Chinensis definitely look better in shadier areas even though they take forever to trunk which must be taken into account. Dypsis Lutescens is another option for shade to semi-shade even though they might not survive a bad freeze. Since they shouldn't be too expensive I would try them.

Rhopalis Sapida is another idea for the your spots.

Cheers,

Wolfe

[Palm crazy]

i can tell you from experience that plectomia is VERY dangerous.

I though it might look cool climbing up the tree since it is away from the walk way, but yes they do and will bite you!

[paulgila]

it does look cool,just takes a while to get high enough!

[basilios]

Are bananas out of the question for the shady part of the garden?

[paulgila]

try some.what could it hurt?

[Kumar]

Thanks for the suggestions... Well I'm not very fond of the Caryota family, nor of plectocomia. Also I don't think prestoea stands a chance in my winter climate. The rest are interesting ideas, although somewhat difficult to find in the market... Linospadix is actually a great idea, but where to find it?

How can you not be fond of caryota, ?

They grow very well enough in the shade if watered well. Only drawback is that it could blot out the sun completely once it rockets up and then you'll need even more shade loving palms. On the brighter side (no pun intended) they have a short lifespan of 15 years maximum

[paulgila]

arenga engelri has sharp leaf-edges,i would keep that in mind when planting in a more intimate setting,such as this.

[Walter John]

Greece is the word...is the word..is the word...oh, sorry, saw a Frankie Vallie concert on dvd last night, ah, can I have a go ? I see there's a fair amount of width there so I'm thinking Livistona...again. L.australis or rigida.