Palms suggestions for shady place

[Tyrone]

arenga engelri has sharp leaf-edges,i would keep that in mind when planting in a more intimate setting,such as this.

I admit that the leaflets are tough, but sharp.? I would call a Pandan leaf or Raphia leaf sharp but not an Arenga.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Patrick]

I can give a little info on what a queen palm will do in full/ partial shade. My mother in law planted two against her house facing to the north and they got very little sun. They would push maybe one leaf (possibly two) each summer. They absolutely floundered for about 6 years. I mean, they just did nothing.

I dug them up about four years ago and put them in my yard in the sun. They now have about 8 feet of trunk which tells me that they really do like sun.

I liked seeing the Chamaedoreas that you have- that's a good start. I've seen a Livistona chinensis in a lot of shade, and it just gets a bit elongated. They grow so slow for me that I don't think it would matter all that much if it was in sun or shade.

For me (and I am in a med. climate- 9B), the only way I could get a Rhopie to grow was to keep it in shade/ dappled sun. The summer heat where I live does not get along well with that palm- it likes to stay cooler, so that location might be a possibility with that palm. Maybe that 4 hour sun spot would be good for your Rhopalostylis? The big question would be how hot do you get? I think around 30-35 degrees would be acceptable. The heat I'm talking about where I live that just whack that palm is 40- 43 degrees on those really hot days, but average June to September temps are around 30, if not a little higher. Anyways, if you find a good spot where that palm is happy, it would be very impressive.

I like your idea about the Arenga. I have one in mostly shade- a little sun in the afternoon, and it grows slow. But they grow slow anyways. One thing I can recommend if you DO decide to go with the Arenga is to amend your soil a bit. It looks like you have clay, yes? I only ask because I have clay and I wish I had used more amendments when I planted mine. It takes a long time for my new leaves to darken up after they open and I accredit this to the poor drainage.

On a non-palm note, have you given Hedychium any thought? It could add that tropical look and it stays relatively short, and it's tough. Something instead of or in addition to bananas.

[paulgila]

arenga engelri has sharp leaf-edges,i would keep that in mind when planting in a more intimate setting,such as this.

I admit that the leaflets are tough, but sharp.? I would call a Pandan leaf or Raphia leaf sharp but not an Arenga.

Best regards

Tyrone

sharp.

[basilios]

I can give a little info on what a queen palm will do in full/ partial shade. My mother in law planted two against her house facing to the north and they got very little sun. They would push maybe one leaf (possibly two) each summer. They absolutely floundered for about 6 years. I mean, they just did nothing.

I dug them up about four years ago and put them in my yard in the sun. They now have about 8 feet of trunk which tells me that they really do like sun.

I liked seeing the Chamaedoreas that you have- that's a good start. I've seen a Livistona chinensis in a lot of shade, and it just gets a bit elongated. They grow so slow for me that I don't think it would matter all that much if it was in sun or shade.

For me (and I am in a med. climate- 9B), the only way I could get a Rhopie to grow was to keep it in shade/ dappled sun. The summer heat where I live does not get along well with that palm- it likes to stay cooler, so that location might be a possibility with that palm. Maybe that 4 hour sun spot would be good for your Rhopalostylis? The big question would be how hot do you get? I think around 30-35 degrees would be acceptable. The heat I'm talking about where I live that just whack that palm is 40- 43 degrees on those really hot days, but average June to September temps are around 30, if not a little higher. Anyways, if you find a good spot where that palm is happy, it would be very impressive.

I like your idea about the Arenga. I have one in mostly shade- a little sun in the afternoon, and it grows slow. But they grow slow anyways. One thing I can recommend if you DO decide to go with the Arenga is to amend your soil a bit. It looks like you have clay, yes? I only ask because I have clay and I wish I had used more amendments when I planted mine. It takes a long time for my new leaves to darken up after they open and I accredit this to the poor drainage.

On a non-palm note, have you given Hedychium any thought? It could add that tropical look and it stays relatively short, and it's tough. Something instead of or in addition to bananas.

The sunnier part of the garden receives 3-4 hours of sun daily as far as a 3'-5' seedling is concerned. As it will grow older and taller, it will receive more and more sun. Our old CIDP, with its 6' of trunk and more than 12' leaves receives about 8 hours of direct sun daily, including the warmest part of the day (afternoon). That's where my choice of a queen palm is founded : it's fast enough that within a couple or three years can reach the "sunny zone" (around 10'- 12' tall) that will allow it to enjoy half a day (or more) of strong sun, which I believe is good enough. It's also 100% safe in even our worst possible winter scenario, so I'm leaning towards using one for that priviledged half-sunny spot. I have one queen "litoralis" about 5' tall growing fast in a pot and I think I'll use it.

Another thing is that, even if in the USA and Australia is a very common palm, here it's still rather uncommon, since people and cities still use mostly CIDP and washingtonias for gardens and public areas. In my part of the city I've seen no more than four or five queens growing, the closest to me being almost a kilometer away...

I've done some work during the weekend, as I've planted so far livistona chinensis, kentia, ch. microspadix, archonto tuckeri, ceroxylon amazonicum, livistona saribus and rhopalostylis cheesmanii. Let me tell you, that was some work indeed, since my soil is clay (correct Partick) and also very rocky, which means that even the smallest hole took me a lot of time and effort to dig (armed with just a shovel...).There's still some space left and tomorrow I'll plant the queen palm and possibly a musa sikkimensis banana and maybe another sabal. I'll post some photos after the work is done.

Thanks to all for your help and advice so far!

[kelen]

I already saw Syagrus schyzophylla (it used to grow in full sun in habitat) growing very well in the shadow.

[basilios]

Ok, here's an update of what I've been doing through the last weekend...

From left to right, kentia, l. chinensis, ch. microxpadix and a monstera that I had growing in a pot for years.

Ceroxylon amazonicum in a very shady part of the garden. Purchased it last April from Spain, has been really slow since then, still opening the same leaf. Maybe it didn't like the pot, maybe it doesn't like the heat. Let's see how it'll do from now on (especially in the winter).

[basilios]

Rhopalostylis cheesmanii. Has been struggling in the pot to open a new leaf during the last 3 months that I have it, moving very slowly. Perhaps it didn't like our summer heat either.

Archontophoenix tuckeri. Have it for about 3 months, it's growing strong and trouble-free. I hope it'll make it through the winter.

Livistona saribus. I have it for 2 years now and it didn't like it being in a pot at my balcony a bit. Has been growing very slowly and most of its older leaves have been destroyed by our strong winds. In this protected spot I hope it'll do better.

Edited July 19, 2010 by basilios

[basilios]

Syagrus "litoralis", in the sunnier spot of that part of the garden. It has been a champion so far, having more than doubled in size during the last 2 years. I purchased it as a 1g plant and now it's opening its first pinnate leaf.I'm sure it will grow to be a very good looking specimen.

A musa sikkimensis that I have grown from seed, planted next to the CIDP. It won't receive much sun until it grows another meter or so, but I had it in half-shade during the last 6 months and it did just fine, growing quite a bit. The spot where I planted it is gonna offer the plant a lot of protection from our powerful sea winds of the winter.

Another sabal causiarum that I planted in the western part of the garden, protected by bricks since our garden's tortoise almost immediately started to chew its leaves. Interestingly, this palm's leaves seem to be too hard and stiff for the tortoises'jaws (the first few bites didn't leave a scratch on the plant) but still I didn't want to take my chances.

Edited July 19, 2010 by basilios

[mcwolf]

Hi Basilios,

nice planting.

Did you plant 2 Kentias next to each other? I personally prefer them as singles since they can hold quite a few leaves and therefore get bushy anyway. The Livi Chinensis might in a view years from now burst the container wall. But since they grow slow you've got plenty of time to make a plan.

Enjoy your palms,

Wolfe

[Patrick]

Cool! I like where you put the Banana.

I hope you don't mind but I'd like to give you a couple of hints that I've found that work for me or that may help...

That's a good idea with the queen palm. It will overtake that date quickly. If you really want to get it to grow fast, get a 3-4' (uhhh, 1 meter?) piece of 1" PVC pipe (uhhh, 3cm?). Cut the end at a 45 degree angle and drill a bunch of holes in it at the bottom to 25 cm up where you made the cut with like a 5mm drill bit. Then drive the pvc pipe into the base of the queen palm root zone at about a 45 degree angle. Imagine you wanted to get the end of that pipe at the bottom root zone of a 15 gallon (sorry I don't know the metric size) palm. You'll have to drive it in a little, then pull it out to get the clay "slug" out of your pipe, then drive it in a little deeper. The goal here is to mainline water to that palm using a micro-sprinkler line placed directly into the pipe. I did this this with my queens and it's allowed them to put on like 3.5 meters of trunk on in like 5 or 6 years, I forgot really how long they've been there. They've grown a lot faster than any other queens in my neighborhood. That, and a bunch of fertilizer that'll make it grow well!

The other thing is your monstera, I planted one a couple years ago and has grown well now that it's taken root. But you'll have to train it to go up something, otherwise it will just go out and flop over your planter onto the ground. Mine didn't climb up my lattice as well as I thought it would. I don't know what your goal was with it, but I just figured telling you my experience with it might help you in the future.

It looks like you did a lot of work and it looks great! That's pretty cool that you have a pet Tortoise! do you have to take him in in the winter?

In San Francisco, they can grow Ceroxylons, Kentias, and Rhopies, all because of the coastal influence that brings in the fog during the summer, keeping it on the cool side; and the ocean insulating to keep it warm in the winter. I'm 50 miles away with no coastal influence which is why I get all the heat and CAN'T grow them (bummer). I noticed that you said you get winds from the sea in the winter. Hopefully that sea influence will help you out a bit in the winter. If you say you're 9b/10A then you ought to do well.

[basilios]

Yes, it's a double kentia, here they sell it almost always this way (sometimes even three or four plants of different heights together in the same pot). Their roots were so tightly bound that I didn't even think about separate them...As for the l. chinensis, I'll deal with it when it's time...but from the photo you can't really tell, there's quite some space in there to grow for a number of years without a problem. After that, we'll see...

[basilios]

I hope you don't mind but I'd like to give you a couple of hints that I've found that work for me or that may help...

That's a good idea with the queen palm. It will overtake that date quickly. If you really want to get it to grow fast, get a 3-4' (uhhh, 1 meter?) piece of 1" PVC pipe (uhhh, 3cm?). Cut the end at a 45 degree angle and drill a bunch of holes in it at the bottom to 25 cm up where you made the cut with like a 5mm drill bit. Then drive the pvc pipe into the base of the queen palm root zone. Imagine you wanted to get the end of that pipe at the bottom root zone of a 15 gallon (sorry I don't know the metric size) palm. You'll have to drive it in a little, then pull it out to get the clay "slug" out of your pipe, then drive a little more. The goal here is to mainline water to that palm using a micro-sprinkler line placed directly into the pipe. I did this this with my queens and it's allowed them to put on like 3.5 meters of trunk on in like 5 or 6 years, I forgot really how long they've been there. They've grown a lot faster than any other queens in my neighborhood. That, and a bunch of fertilizer that'll make it grow well!

The other thing is your monstera, I planted one a couple years ago and has grown well now that it's taken root. But you'll have to train it to go up something, otherwise it will just go out and flop over your planter onto the ground. Mine didn't climb up my lattice as well as I thought it would. I don't know what your goal was with it, but I just figured telling you my experience with it might help you in the future.

It looks like you did a lot of work and it looks great!

Hey Patrick, I'm really new to this, since I've been growing palms for no more than 4 years and always in pots. This is not exactly "my" garden, it's rather the building's garden (I live on the 4th floor) but it's a small building and my family owns it, so I finally decided to do something with the garden, cause it has been neglected for many many years. But I'm absolutely a novice about planting and maintaining gardens, so any advice is more than welcome.

Your tip on watering the queen is very interesting, although a little complicated (at least at this learning stage) for me. I'll definitely try it, though.

As for the monstera, I'm thinking of keeping it upright by attaching it to the wall just next to it and of course prune it as necessary.

[Patrick]

Yeah, I know I made it sound a little complex- too detailed!

Just stick a pipe in the root ball to water the root zone!

Here: I ran outside & took some pictures for ya.

here's my queen palm:

And here's the pipe. It's got a cap on it. the next picture I took the cap off so you can see the drip line going in:

Here's another queen where I haven't cut off the extra pipe yet and put the drip line in. There's a sweet, sweet little black widow living in there I'll bet and I wouldn't want to disturb her, now would I?

By the way, this palm was planted maybe two years after the big one above and the two palms were the same 15 gallon size when they went in the ground. It hasn't received the same water treatment as the tree above. It might be a good comparison. I know the pic doesn't show it but this palm is still very small- only 40 cm of trunk or so.

Now here's my swiss cheese plant, and it's hard to tell, but it's gone a bit more out, rather than up. The burnt leaves are from the reflection of the sun off the windows above, like a magnifying glass.

Ok, hope this helps!

[John Case]

You might also consider Parajubaea cocoides.....very beautiful and cool weather preferred...

[Sutter Bob]

Looks great. I wonder if a Chambeyronia might squeeze in there somewhere. I bet one could survive and would grow slowly.