What is the tallest known XButyagrus?

[Nigel]

If I buy from one source such as Eric....would all the palms look similar, or is there alot of variation even using the same parent plants?

The different Butia species give different looking Butyagrus.

Here you can see catarinensis vc eriosptha together. the eriosptha is the BIG one.

[merrill]

Hi, David:

For uniform hybrids, try to get plants from the same cross. The folks at Moultrie can provide these; whoever you use should be able to do it this way.

Best Wishes,

merrill

[Nigel]

Hi, David:

For uniform hybrids, try to get plants from the same cross. The folks at Moultrie can provide these; whoever you use should be able to do it this way.

Best Wishes,

merrill

I second Merrills recomendation for Moultrie , the Lewis,s Butyagrus are fantastic and very consistent.

[Kailua_Krish]

Hi, David:

For uniform hybrids, try to get plants from the same cross. The folks at Moultrie can provide these; whoever you use should be able to do it this way.

Best Wishes,

merrill

I second Merrills recomendation for Moultrie , the Lewis,s Butyagrus are fantastic and very consistent.

Does anyone have a picture of a larger Moultrie hybrid? I have a couple of these and would love to know what they grow in to!

-Krishna

[ErikSJI]

It is amazing how much they do resemble coconuts when they got some height on them. At least for me....seeing as how we'll never be able to grow coconuts here.....this will have to be a suitable substitute. Does anyone have any pictures of XButyagrus with some nice curve to the trunk?

This is the only one I have seen with a curved trunk. It was planted on an angle then straightened itself out.

[ErikSJI]

It is amazing how much they do resemble coconuts when they got some height on them. At least for me....seeing as how we'll never be able to grow coconuts here.....this will have to be a suitable substitute. Does anyone have any pictures of XButyagrus with some nice curve to the trunk?

This is the only one I have seen with a curved trunk. It was planted on an angle then straightened itself out.

[ErikSJI]

Another angle.

[ErikSJI]

Another angle.

Keep forgetting to put the image in.

[Gallop]

Here are a couple I p/up from Moultrie , Frank is a great guy and does an excellent job with this hybrid

Edited August 16, 2010 by Gallop

[Kailua_Krish]

Here are a couple I p/up from Moultrie , Frank is a great guy and does an excellent job with this hybrid

Mine are about this size but I havent trimmed them up as much. I have been really happy with them, but eager to see what type of butyagrus (Queenish, Butiaish, or Coconutty they will grow in to as they become older.

-Krishna

[Mark Heath]

Here are a couple I p/up from Moultrie , Frank is a great guy and does an excellent job with this hybrid

Mine are about this size but I havent trimmed them up as much. I have been really happy with them, but eager to see what type of butyagrus (Queenish, Butiaish, or Coconutty they will grow in to as they become older.

-Krishna

Krishna,

While looking at the pics from Paul i would say that those guys are going to have a more upright strictor form. Look for droopy fronds but keep in mind that you would need to purchace at least a 15 gallon size to get the idea of what it will grow into. I don't think that Paul has trimmed them any more than anybody else would but being the nature of the ones pictured they will allways keep their upright form. I have many here and some have the droopy fronds and some have the strictor look. IMO hybrids vary because some resemble one parent more than the other sometimes. I prefer the droopy look, but that is what i like and everybody has their taste.

I have used the same parents for years but i have many different looking forms in my XButyagrus', mostly the same but there are oddballs. Here is a droopy frond Mule that i sold to Martin Ferris in Texas, it was one of my favorite and i will miss it!

[Mark Heath]

Here is a more strictor form, same parents, same batch of seeds. The first one grew quicker and developed a trunk long before the second one pictured here because i would assume that it leaned more to the father than the mother.

IMO, you cannot rely allways on using the same parents as to what the Mule will look like in the future, i would if i were you buy a big one that has allready shown what it will look like in the future.

Just my humble opinion.

Mark

[Kailua_Krish]

With the strictor form will they eventually relax like queens do? I feel like I see many queens that grow upright until they get quite a bit of trunk, just curious though.

-Krishna

[TimHopper]

Krishna, I think you are right. The crown will start to relax and droop to some degree after forming 8-10 feet of trunk. I can say though that form changes quite a lot during the life of the palm. I have a lot of xButyagrus in my garden that turned out much different than I expected. Some of my favorites now were not favorites when smaller, and vice-versa. If you are picky, I would advise you to buy a grown one from a field grower, or buy a few small ones and hope for the best. It's been said over and over, but there is a lot of variation. Tim

[Kailua_Krish]

Krishna, I think you are right. The crown will start to relax and droop to some degree after forming 8-10 feet of trunk. I can say though that form changes quite a lot during the life of the palm. I have a lot of xButyagrus in my garden that turned out much different than I expected. Some of my favorites now were not favorites when smaller, and vice-versa. If you are picky, I would advise you to buy a grown one from a field grower, or buy a few small ones and hope for the best. It's been said over and over, but there is a lot of variation. Tim

I already have 5 Moultrie ones so I think that is sufficient I'll just have to be patient and see what they turn in to (though not that patient considering how fast they grow)! Thanks for the replies all!

-Krishna

[DCA_Palm_Fan]

Ken,

Your optimistic comments are inspiring! I'm confident they will do well there. I grow palms for a living, so I want my parent's new house to be "decked out". I'll let you know how they do. I'm also going to plant some Serenoa and Rhapidophyllum too.

JD

Please do keep me updated! Rhapidophyllum, S. Minor, and Trachycarpus all do well here in the Washington D.C. area. There are even a few Serenoa Repens here and there too. If those can be done here, they can be done in Richmond VA as well. VA Beach, well that is a whole other ball game completely. Its like north Florida slid up the coast in into SE Virginia. I gotta find that Va Beach photo, or at least link to the thread that contains it, and many other *WOW* photos from Va Beach, which is on another forum.

[TimHopper]

Krishna, I think you are right. The crown will start to relax and droop to some degree after forming 8-10 feet of trunk. I can say though that form changes quite a lot during the life of the palm. I have a lot of xButyagrus in my garden that turned out much different than I expected. Some of my favorites now were not favorites when smaller, and vice-versa. If you are picky, I would advise you to buy a grown one from a field grower, or buy a few small ones and hope for the best. It's been said over and over, but there is a lot of variation. Tim

I already have 5 Moultrie ones so I think that is sufficient I'll just have to be patient and see what they turn in to (though not that patient considering how fast they grow)! Thanks for the replies all!

-Krishna

Krishna, My largest XButyagrus are from the same brood as yours. I worked with Frank and Elaine at Moultie as we learned hybridization techniques together. Frank is a great gardener and came up with a lot of good ideas. Their mother Butia has made some of the best XButyagrus that I have seen. If you have five of them, you should be set.

[ErikSJI]

Another great place to see how much the mule palm can vary in looks is Brooksville Palms. Richard Whatley has over 20,000 of them that we have sold him over the last 12 years. We use 4 sets of parents. Fields and Fields of different sizes.

[PalmGuyWC]

Eric,

Where are all these thousands of mules going? Nurserys, big box stores? I haven't seen any showing up in N. Calif.

Dick

[TimHopper]

Eric,

Where are all these thousands of mules going? Nurserys, big box stores? I haven't seen any showing up in N. Calif.

Dick

Yes, I wonder too. They are very nice looking hybrids by the way. Tim

[ErikSJI]

Eric,

Where are all these thousands of mules going? Nurserys, big box stores? I haven't seen any showing up in N. Calif.

Dick

Richard is not cleared for California. I believe most of his have been going to Texas. Last year he sent a truck load to Rain Tree Tropical in Oregon he has been sitting on them for awhile. He really does not advertise accept in the plant list as far as I am aware.

Ours are cleared for California. However we rarely keep anything past 3 gallon size and it seems that there is not a lot of interest in growing these out on the west coast to specimen size. There is Green Island Nursery in Gilroy California that has quite a collection of Hybrid palms.

Erik

[ErikSJI]

Eric,

Where are all these thousands of mules going? Nurserys, big box stores? I haven't seen any showing up in N. Calif.

Dick

Yes, I wonder too. They are very nice looking hybrids by the way. Tim

Thanks Tim. I just received your Jubutyagrus Hybrids. They look great as well. Here is a photo of my Butia x Cocos. It was starting to take a turn for the worse and just started pushing some new leaves. Mark Lynn was the pollinator for this hybrid.

Erik

[DCA_Palm_Fan]

As promised earlier in this thread, here are a few photos of "Floriginia" LOL! These are just a few photos from just 1 persons yard in Va Beach. Its several miles inland from the ocean, but this is a SOLID 8b climate. These palms have all taken some snow, especially last winter where the usually snow free Va Beach got hit hard at least a couple times with very heavy / deep snow fall. While it did snow, the temps never really got particularly cold however. Low 30's - upper 20's mainly but the daytimes often went back into the 40s, which is still fairly COLD for Va Beach. Usually winter daytime temps are upper 40s to near 50 for the coldest months of Jan/ Feb. Usually within 10 miles or so of the ocean or southern Chesapeake bay stays a solid zone 8b, sometimes a cold 9a. The gulf stream helps this climate out as well. As a result, many are discovering that their yards can look like this:

(note - I'm fairly certain that most of these trees were planted 15-20 years ago, and have grown up in this location, and now bloom and go to seed.

Same palms in a heavy snowstorm that dumped around a foot:

Just one more - Yes Oleander, Agaves, and many many Yuccas also flourish in Va Beach.

This is just ONE yard. I know of 15 or 20 more I have either seen myself, or seen photos of in the Va Beach area that look like this, or even MORE like north Florida. Not to mention all of the commercial places and public parks along the ocean that plant palms and see them survive for years and years. Va Beach is slowly becoming very much the "Tropical" beach city of the southern Mid Atlantic, and perhaps the northern most on the east coast. It is common to see large windmill palms even up into the Delaware and south Jersey shore areas as well.

I would venture a guess that Mule Palms might actually have a decent chance of surviving in Va Beach, especially given that Butia Capitata and Sabal Palmetto seem to not only survive, but thrive there.

EDIT: all of these palms, and many many many more just like them grow UNPROTECTED in the Va Beach area. I think these particular palms except the windmills, needles and S. Minor, were protected somewhat when they were young and establishing. Now they go unprotected save for sometimes some rope lights wrapped around the trunks. The city and hotels protect the Sabals and Butias along the ocean, but many home owners do not, and they do just fine.

[ErikSJI]

Eric,

Where are all these thousands of mules going? Nurserys, big box stores? I haven't seen any showing up in N. Calif.

Dick

Yes, I wonder too. They are very nice looking hybrids by the way. Tim

Thanks Tim. I just received your Jubutyagrus Hybrids. They look great as well. Here is a photo of my Butia x Cocos. It was starting to take a turn for the worse and just started pushing some new leaves. Mark Lynn was the pollinator for this hybrid.

Erik

[ErikSJI]

As promised earlier in this thread, here are a few photos of "Floriginia" LOL! These are just a few photos from just 1 persons yard in Va Beach. Its several miles inland from the ocean, but this is a SOLID 8b climate. These palms have all taken some snow, especially last winter where the usually snow free Va Beach got hit hard at least a couple times with very heavy / deep snow fall. While it did snow, the temps never really got particularly cold however. Low 30's - upper 20's mainly but the daytimes often went back into the 40s, which is still fairly COLD for Va Beach. Usually winter daytime temps are upper 40s to near 50 for the coldest months of Jan/ Feb. Usually within 10 miles or so of the ocean or southern Chesapeake bay stays a solid zone 8b, sometimes a cold 9a, and as a result, many are discovering that their yards can look like this:

(note - I'm fairly certain that most of these trees were planted 15-20 years ago, and have grown up in this location, and now bloom and go to seed.

Same palms in a heavy snowstorm that dumped around a foot:

Just one more - Yes Oleander, Agaves, and many many Yuccas also flourish in Va Beach.

This is just ONE yard. I know of 15 or 20 more I have either seen myself, or seen photos of in the Va Beach area that look like this, or even MORE like north Florida. Not to mention all of the commercial places and public parks along the ocean that plant palms and see them survive for years and years. Va Beach is slowly becoming very much the "Tropical" beach city of the southern Mid Atlantic. It is common to see large windmill palms even up into the Delaware and south Jersey shore areas as well.

I would venture a guess that Mule Palms might actually have a decent chance of surviving in Va Beach, especially given that Butia Capitata and Sabal Palmetto seem to not only survive, but thrive there.

Very nice.

[DCA_Palm_Fan]

Very nice.

Thanks! Now if only it were MY yard!!!!!

[iamjv]

Wow those are some impressive palm pics from Va. Beach! Would have never believed it... Jv

[palmster]

A 30' Butyagrus I transplante in 1997

[Jason in Orlando]

Here are four in Wildwood, Sumter Co FL. The tallest has about 25 ft of trunk.

Jason

Okay, obviously I don't know how to upload to the "new" board. I'll try again later.

[FRITO]

Another angle.

Keep forgetting to put the image in.

Edited August 23, 2010 by FRITO

[ErikSJI]

Another angle.

Keep forgetting to put the image in.

[/quote

HAHAHA

[edbrown_III]

Gaston

posted these a while back--- very large this might be the grandaddy of them all

Ed

[Mark Heath]

Gaston

posted these a while back--- very large this might be the grandaddy of them all

Ed

I would agree! That is one massive XButyagrus, maybe has some Jubaea??? The grandfather of them all!!!!

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

Here's a link to a series of photos of 2 Mule Palms near Melbourn Fl. they appear to be about 30' overall +/-. Unfortunately one has succumbed to Ganoderma zonatum, one of our worst palm killers here in Florida. The survivor is hollow. I'm attaching a reduced size image whet your appetite.

http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2252748020053863943kMFVnG

[Tala]

below is the biggest one I know of in metro Orlando, or really elsewhere in central Fl. It has approx. 35 ft of clear wood. Most all of the really old ones I see around here have 20-25 ft of wood.

This one also fruits quite often. There are some old Syagrus about a block or so away, within eyesight but not very close, no Butia in sight. I p/up some fruit, tasty very Butia-like. The seed does sink but I haven't cut any open yet. I've never seen a Butyagrus make any viable seed here without being back-crossed somehow but I'll try a few from this palm and see what happens.

[Walt]

I have to agree with Merrill that this hybrid slows down in growth rate when it gets older, as I've been tracking the above XButiagrus for more than 10 years now and I really can't discern much of a height change in all that time.

This palm is growing in Sebring, Florida. I talked to the owner of this palm several years ago. He told me the palm was already planted when he bought the small yellow house in the background back in 1982, when he moved up to Sebring from Miami. Further, he told me this palm was unfazed by the infamous Christmas season freezes of 1989.

[merrillwx]

You fellows certainly turn up some beautiful tall XButyagrus. Some of us would be extremely grateful if you folks could provide a good estimate of their height.

Best Wishes,

merrill

[Jason in Orlando]

Four tall but slightly beat-up individuals in Wildwood, FL:

[Kailua_Krish]

Why do the ones in Wildwood look so bad? Is it from not being fertilized? If so, the mule replacing the queen may turn out to be a horror story!

-Krishna

[WestCoastGal]

No where near as much clear trunk as some of the other mules pictured above but thought I would repost a pic of our transplanted mules for comparison. From my understanding they sat in container boxes for a number of years before being purchased by us. The taller one in the background is more upright but after all the winter winds we've had this past month and as it puts out new fronds and the older ones lower, I've noticed the lower fronds seem more horizontal now than in this picture. Very nice spread of the canopy and nice shade generated. Not as full of a canopy as some of the other pics I've seen here but still very attractive.