Butia catarinensis

[Nigel]

This photo is of Butia catarinensis in my garden ,it comes from one of the most northerly populations situated at Sao Francisco Do Sul , santa Catarina.

It has a more blue form, stout trunk and very tidy leaf arrangement typical of this population and the spathe is rounded at the tip.

[Nigel]

The second photo is of another variation growing some 500km further south on the border between Santa catarina and Rio Grande Do Sul.

This form is much untidier, more glaucous and has a smaller crown.

However the spathe, flower , and acorn shaped fruits remain the same.

Both these populations occur on sand dunes next to the beach.

[Nigel]

A third population I found some 200km north of the most southerly is very different.

It was not growing in dunes but was on the top of an escarpment some 500km from the beach.

It seems to be a dwarf form, almost spineless. The flower bract is acute which is different.

The fruit and seed is beaked rather than acorn shaped.

I believe this population is worthy of further study. Oddly growing nearby in sand dunes were normal catarinensis.

[sonoranfans]

Very pretty butias Nigel. I really like the one in pic #1 its gorgeous. thanks for the pics.

Tom

[Al in Kona]

Very pretty butias Nigel. I really like the one in pic #1 its gorgeous. thanks for the pics.

Tom

I would say the same - like the one in post #1. I have only one, Butia archerii. Here is a pic of it . . .

[Alicehunter2000]

Nigel, has anyone ever tried to hybridize these small Butia species to get a minature mule? Seems the landscape industry would go nuts over something like this.

[PalmGuyWC]

David,

Patrick Schafer is in the process of hybridizing B. archeri. I'm not sure which species he crossed it with, but probably Syagrus. B archeri pollen is hard to come by, but should become more plentiful as some of the palms soon become mature in the Bay area. I know of one individual that has set seeds in the Bay area, but they are pure B. archeri.

Dick

[Nigel]

Nigel, has anyone ever tried to hybridize these small Butia species to get a minature mule? Seems the landscape industry would go nuts over something like this.

I have pollen ready here to give it a go with my little dwarf............

[PalmGuyWC]

Nigel, has anyone ever tried to hybridize these small Butia species to get a minature mule? Seems the landscape industry would go nuts over something like this.

I have pollen ready here to give it a go with my little dwarf............

Nigel,

Didn't you publish a photo some time back on Palm Talk of a dwarf Butia crossed with Syagrus?

Dick

[Nigel]

Nigel, has anyone ever tried to hybridize these small Butia species to get a minature mule? Seems the landscape industry would go nuts over something like this.

I have pollen ready here to give it a go with my little dwarf............

Nigel,

Didn't you publish a photo some time back on Palm Talk of a dwarf Butia crossed with Syagrus?

Dick

Not me Dick............. maybe Alberto ???

[Alberto]

Nigel, has anyone ever tried to hybridize these small Butia species to get a minature mule? Seems the landscape industry would go nuts over something like this.

I´m thinking about this some time...

I have a little very compact B.arenicola flowering and can try to hibridize it with a slender trunk S.romanzoffiana to achieve a different Butiagrus.

[Alberto]

Nigel, has anyone ever tried to hybridize these small Butia species to get a minature mule? Seems the landscape industry would go nuts over something like this.

I have pollen ready here to give it a go with my little dwarf............

Nigel,

Didn't you publish a photo some time back on Palm Talk of a dwarf Butia crossed with Syagrus?

Dick

Not me Dick............. maybe Alberto ???

Nigel,do you have photos of the Buiagrus ( B.catarinensis x queen) ?

[iamjv]

Nigel, that Butia catarinensis in the first photo is spectacular! Really like the tidy appearance! Jv

[Nigel]

Bumping this one up for Frito

[sarasota alex]

Nigel, could you help me confirm the identity of this Butia growing on my street? It has many of the characteristics of a catarinensis, such as a heavy amount of wool around the growth point and leaflets that barely cover half of the length of the petioles. It is however much larger and with a more robust trunk then I would imagine a catarinensis should have.

[sarasota alex]

One of the characteristics that sets this Butia apart from the other ones I've seen, is that leaflets growing closer to the tips of petioles don't get any shorter (sometimes are even longer then the ones in the middle). Also many petioles don't get much thinner as they end. Then end abruptly, almost splitting into two long leaflets, that have "insect antennae" appearance.

[sarasota alex]

[sarasota alex]

Another view

[Nigel]

Difficult to ID from that pic Alex. Can you get a pic of the flower or fruits or seeds ?

Looks more like one of those uruguay odoratas from a first look.

[sarasota alex]

I'm going to try to take better pics when I'm back in town. In the meantime I found something that might help among these older shots. Thanks for the wealth of information you've been providing here! I love all those Butia threads.

[Nigel]

I believe I am seeing pumpkin shaped fruits.... which would make it an odorata. A round seed would confirm it !

[sarasota alex]

Unfortunately, seed collection from this palm is difficult, because I don't know the owner that well and all of the seeds just fall into the bushes. This palm just looks so different then most other Butias around where I live, that I consider to be odorata.

[sarasota alex]

This is my next door neighbor's Butia, that I've always considered to be a true odorata (formerly capitata). The picture of the fruits is in the next post. Seeds are rather small, almost completely round with little edges between the three compartments. Please tell me if I am way off!

[sarasota alex]

[Nigel]

If it has round seeds you are correct and its an odorata Alex.

The other I dont know...... difficult to say without seeing flowers, fruits or seeds.

[freakypalmguy]

Hi Nigel,

Here are a few I have planted at my home, I was hoping maybe you could pin down the which type they are.

This seed,

Is from this tree,

This seed,

Is from this tree,

cont.

[freakypalmguy]

and this seed,

Is from this tree,

any idea?

Matt

[Mark Heath]

Matt,

Wow, your place looks fantastic!! I like the first palm the best, what a magnificent specimen! Does the spathe have rust colored tomentum?

I envy the view you have!

[Nigel]

Matt,

Wow, your place looks fantastic!! I like the first palm the best, what a magnificent specimen! Does the spathe have rust colored tomentum?

I envy the view you have!

Yes fabulous Butias....... the second 2 are odoratas.

The first one as mark says... does it have a fuzzy tomentum on the spathe, looks like Eriosptha although the seed is slightly elongated for a normal eriosptha.

[freakypalmguy]

Thank you Mark and Nigel.

I'm not sure as I've been cutting off the all of the spathes as they emerged on all but the last tree, which is the one I've been hybridizing. It does have one old, empty spathe that is still on the tree, and it does appear to have some tomentum, but it's hard to tell as it's old. I do remember that the inflorescence on this tree are much smaller in total size than the other two, is this common of eriospatha?

Matt

[Nigel]

Thank you Mark and Nigel.

I'm not sure as I've been cutting off the all of the spathes as they emerged on all but the last tree, which is the one I've been hybridizing. It does have one old, empty spathe that is still on the tree, and it does appear to have some tomentum, but it's hard to tell as it's old. I do remember that the inflorescence on this tree are much smaller in total size than the other two, is this common of eriospatha?

Matt

Matt, it looks too big to be a catarinensis, and the seed is `almost ` spheroid. It could be a hybrid , or it could be an eriospatha, or it could be another odorata.