Replanting in the hole of a dead palm

[LilikoiLee]

One of our Dwarf Areca catechu died after languishing for a long time. I had treated it with a broad spectrum fungicide, a systemic and a pesticide over a six month period. Expecting the worst, I purchased a replacement palm a couple of months ago. Now I am afraid to put the new, healthy palm in the hole that the deceased palm occupied. Is it possible that whatever killed the first catechu left a damaging residue in the hole? If yes, what would you recommend? The area is mostly blue rock and holes are very hard to find so it would be optimum to reuse the hole. The other two catechu (from different nuseries than the one that died) never got sick even though they are just a few feet away.

Thanks,

Lee

[Kris]

Dear Lee

My suggestion will be is to clean that area of the dead palm,and fill the hole with nice organic manure rich soil and allow that soil to break down for 6 to 8 months then in the early summer summer season,plant any plant(palm) in that location.This methos works far better than directly putting a new plant in that place.And if your are using chemical based fetz or boosters,pesticides...the above method works like a charm....

Love,

kris

[MattyB]

Lee,

I plant in the same holes where palms have died and sometimes there's no problem and other times I've lost the replacement palms. I have no idea how you can tell if the pathogen is what's killing the palm. I strongly believe that a healthy palm that is growing vigorously can withstand those pathogens most of the time. It's when the palm gets damaged or something hurts it when the fungus wins. I have a similar situation where due to the rock, drip irrigation, and the ease of already having a gopher cage in the ground it's easier for me to just scoop out the old dead palm and plop in another in the same hole. If you're concerned just do what Kris is suggesting and scoop the hole as clean as you can and when you plant the new palm use clean backfill from another area.

[Alicehunter2000]

There are areas in my yard where nothing seems to grow good....don't know why?....anybody else experience anything like that?....are there CHEAP soil testing kits readily available?

[cfkingfish]

I was going to post a thread about "dead zones". I remember an area of the Rainforest area of Fairchild along the sidewalk where they had planted common Chamaedoreas, because 5 other plants had not made it. I have a dead area in my own yard, my best advice is plant something native or is insanely easy to grow. There can be anything from lack of decent soil/minerals to high Arsenic levels, which has happened in areas of Florida.

As far as a new palm, I have planted new palms in place of dead ones within a week. I think it depends on how the palm died. Budrot/cold damage usually does not affect the roots for quite a while, they will just disintegrate, but root suffocation from bad soil or Ganoderma is something to be more cautious about.

[Dr. George]

Aloha Lee - Since its a hole in blue rock, be sure and check the drainage first (5 gal water into the hole). If you have pics of the ailing palm before it deceased, you might ask Garrett about it. - gmp

[junglegalfla]

I have a dead zone in my front yard long the street. I've lost several palms in that area, they all wither and die. It would be the perfect spot for a palm too, so frustrating. I think a former owner may have poured oil or something down.

[LilikoiLee]

Thanks for all the helpful comments everyone. I learned quite a bit. However, I now realize I didn't give you enough info about the situation. I am certain that the location was not the cause of the problem because the catechu was already in trouble when I transplanted it. It had been in a very shady location and a very knowledgeable recommended I move it to a sunnier one. The change did not help so I sent a cutting off to Palm Doctor Scott Nelson at the University of Hawaii who diagnosed a fungus (can't remember the specific name). I treated it but, the palm did not improve and subsequently was besieged by mealybugs, which I also treated. These treatments were repeated several times and toward the end I used a systemic. Hate to have lost the palm but it was a good experience in that I now police our palms more frequently and thoroughly.

I am going to clean the hole and leave it open and exposed to the sun for awhile before replacing the soil with new soil and sterile compost. It will be a true test of my patience to wait 6 or 8 months before replanting as Kris recommends.

Lee

[_Keith]

There are areas in my yard where nothing seems to grow good....don't know why?....anybody else experience anything like that?....are there CHEAP soil testing kits readily available?

With Louisiana having high rains, many areas/spots have been filled, and filled with who know what. I have heard of people having spots like that and literlly having to dig out large amounts of soil and replacing it.

[AggiePalms]

Lee, sure there are big chemical and biological differences between areas of your yard, even without dead palms. I have everything from sand to clay to caliche (calcrete) hardpan, within a few tens of feet of each other. Lots of difference chemically as well as the soil microorganisms (mostly good but can include pathogens), so I try not to place new plants in the exact same holes. I realize you don't have as thick a topsoil, so you may have to replant in the same holes.

David, as to testing kits, I know you can get good water testing kits at any of the online science supply houses (Wards, Carolina Biological, and a dozen more) for a few tens of dollars. Most should work for pore water of the soil; check on their descriptions.

[Dr. George]

...so I sent a cutting off to Palm Doctor Scott Nelson at the University of Hawaii who diagnosed a fungus (can't remember the specific name). ...

Lee

Lee - This is the key to the answer to your question. If you know a specific pathogenic agent that was involved, find out about its biology and you will have a better understanding about its transmission and prevention.

Many of the fungal agents are opportunists - require some sort of stress in order to be able to take hold - for these management is key to prevention.

Check with Steve to confirm the fungal agent and ask him about the biology and prevention. Once you know the agent involved, Garrett and Norm Bezona (UH CTAHR Extension Service) may also be able to advise.

Hope this is helpful - gmp

[DoomsDave]

One of our Dwarf Areca catechu died after languishing for a long time. I had treated it with a broad spectrum fungicide, a systemic and a pesticide over a six month period. Expecting the worst, I purchased a replacement palm a couple of months ago. Now I am afraid to put the new, healthy palm in the hole that the deceased palm occupied. Is it possible that whatever killed the first catechu left a damaging residue in the hole? If yes, what would you recommend? The area is mostly blue rock and holes are very hard to find so it would be optimum to reuse the hole. The other two catechu (from different nuseries than the one that died) never got sick even though they are just a few feet away.

Thanks,

Lee

Lee:

You have the perennial Death Camp Dilemma.

Which I've suffered dozens of times.

Here's how I deal with the death of a palm (after tears are dried, suicide noose put away, etc.):

1. Determine how the dead palm died. That can be important, particularly when you're planting one of the same kind in the same spot. If it's a disease, then there's a possibility that the germ or other cause might be lurking in the soil. If it's something like a gopher, you'll need to deal with that, too.

2. If the problem is not something specific to that kind of palm, or it's a one-shot deal (i.e., accidentally spraying with weed killer, etc.), then it might be okay to try the same kind in that spot.

3. If the decedent was a rare, precious, or very expensive type, and you don't know exactly what the cause of death was, I'd plant the new one somewhere else.

It's not always easy to know what to do every time, so don't feel bad if you're not sure. I'd be rich if I had a dollar for every mistake I made raising palms.

That said, tell us what happened to your first Areca dwarf. Those should be pretty easy for you. It's possible you just got unlucky, or there may be a particular problem.

Tell us, in as much detail as you can, what happened and when, us palm docs will be at your service.

And, wherever you plant your new specimen, show it to us, so we can coo over the new baby like the loving loonies we all are . . . .

[LilikoiLee]

Thanks Aggie and Dr. G,

Many thanks for the help. Unfortunately I can't find the info about the fungus which is why I was hoping there might be a more generic solution to reusing the hole. Frustrating, but as Bucky Fuller said "There are no mistakes; only learning experiences." so I won't lose important info like that again.

Lee

Dr. G: I asked the other Dr. Peavy (Tess Peavy of the Neuter Scooter) if the two of you are related. She asked me to let you know that she has wanted to meet you for a long time. She's in Kona about once a month doing surgeries for the Advocats organization. The best way to contact her is through their website. One of the email addresses is appointments@neuterscooter.com. Her partner, Oscar, is a plant fanatic.

[LilikoiLee]

Dave,

Thanks for your comforting post which came is as I was writing a post of my own.

I believe the palm died from a fungal infection. Although I sent a sample to our local university early this year and was told what the fungus was I have lost the information. I will try to see if the U kept the info; hopefully they did. But I also wanted some general insight into reusing holes that might contain diseases/pests. So your comments are much appreciated.

Lee

[DoomsDave]

Dave,

Thanks for your comforting post which came is as I was writing a post of my own.

I believe the palm died from a fungal infection. Although I sent a sample to our local university early this year and was told what the fungus was I have lost the information. I will try to see if the U kept the info; hopefully they did. But I also wanted some general insight into reusing holes that might contain diseases/pests. So your comments are much appreciated.

Lee

Hmm.

Sounds like you might be able to get away with planting your new one in the same place. Most fungi hit stressed or otherwise unhappy palms, and, usually don't lurk in the soil.

Usually.

If your new palm is expensive, put it in a different spot, and plant something infallible in the spot where the decedent deceded.

dave

[ariscott]

I think everyone has a dead zone in the garden... I have one too... I lost a few palms, alocasia... you name it, I lost them there. So, now I planted ficus there... I thought if anything would survive it would be a ficus. And yes, of couse, it lived and grew...

Regards, Ari

[Jeanie]

Can I plant Hibiscus in the hole of a Fox Tail Palm I lost in the 2022 freeze. They were doing great before the freeze. I lost all 6 of my new Palms. Do I need to use a Fungicide before replanting?

[Darold Petty]

Jeanie, Welcome to Palmtalk !     

Since your palms died of cold, rather than a pathogen, then plant away .  I would not use a fungicide, since most are non-specific and would damage the beneficial fungi as well.