San Angelo Cold Hardy Palms and Cycads

[Nigel]

Wow, sorry to hear the bad news Martin. Too bad the large Sabals were not established yet and then the bad winter came.

I am also sad about the Mule, man that was a beautifull palm!

I am waiting for my B.Yatay to flower so i can use that to cross with, should be a cool hybrid.

I also have a Silver Queen but i am not sure if it is more cold hardy or not. I have heard them called "Bonsall" too. Someone enlighten me

as to their cold hardiness. The Silver Queen is shooting it's first spathe so i will use it's pollen on B.Odorata and I'll send you some seeds

if that'll work for you.

So far so good w/ this winter, let's keep our fingers crossed!

The Sabals that died were S. palmettos in 100 gallon containers that I planned on selling in the spring. The ones I have in the ground are ok. I think the containers actually froze.

I miss the Mule I got from you. I think I'm going to replace it with a curved trunk Sabal. It won't be nearly as cool, but at least I shouldn't have to worry about it freezing.

The Silver Queens are supposed to be more cold hardy. Send me some seeds, and we'll find out. What does your B. odorata look like? I have found there are 2 maybe 3 Butias that are all being called B. capitata or now odorata. One is much cold hardier than the others. I am attaching photos of the cold hardy type with explanation. This type wasn't even defoliated by the freeze. The others were, and some were killed outright. I found a nursery growing these brutes and am going to bring a bunch in to resell and replace a few in my yard. If you have this type, try to use the Silver Queen pollen on it, or send me some and I will hit mine with it.

Shot of the entire plant. It is about 9' OA with 3' from ground to new spear.

It's newest fronds are a nice blue green or even silver color on some specimens with hooks like a Jubaea, but I don't think it is a hybrid. I compared it to the stats in Hodel's article in Palms and all the numbers match up with pure Butia odorata.

The trunk is massive. It is over 2' wide and I'm not sure that it has attained it's full caliper at the ground yet. The less cold hardy ones are usually about 18" wide at the ground. The leaf bases are shaped like those on a Jubaea, on the less cold hardy ones the bases are much narrower and the portion that is exposed is actually straight so that it appears that the petiole attaches directly to the trunk. Each rank of fronds is offset from the ones above and below on the hardier type. On the less cold hardy ones the leaf bases in each rank are directly above the bases in the previous rank. The cold hardy ones have heavy fiber on the petioles for at least a foot before it changes over to teeth. I have also found the cold hardier ones to be more tolerant of soil that is alkaline. I never need to put chelated iron on this beast, but the less cold hardy type becomes extremely chlorotic in my pH 7.8 soil if I don't give them chelated iron every spring. Also, this type is very slow to mature. The less cold hardy ones flower when their trunks aren't much larger than a basketball. This one flowered for the first time only 2 years ago when it had nearly 3' of trunk (from ground to where the spear emerges).

Martin in the case of your butias size matters. Those big ones are for sure odorata from south tip of brasil and uruguay. They are HUGE and at times remind of Jubaeas.

I am really sorry to hear about your Jubaeas , what a tragedy.

What are you doing with the butyagrus seeds to germinate them ? They should be easy to germinate, and from your cross section they were clearly good seeds. With the santa catarina pollen they would be extremely cold hardy too.

[mjff]

Wow, sorry to hear the bad news Martin. Too bad the large Sabals were not established yet and then the bad winter came.

I am also sad about the Mule, man that was a beautifull palm!

I am waiting for my B.Yatay to flower so i can use that to cross with, should be a cool hybrid.

I also have a Silver Queen but i am not sure if it is more cold hardy or not. I have heard them called "Bonsall" too. Someone enlighten me

as to their cold hardiness. The Silver Queen is shooting it's first spathe so i will use it's pollen on B.Odorata and I'll send you some seeds

if that'll work for you.

So far so good w/ this winter, let's keep our fingers crossed!

The Sabals that died were S. palmettos in 100 gallon containers that I planned on selling in the spring. The ones I have in the ground are ok. I think the containers actually froze.

I miss the Mule I got from you. I think I'm going to replace it with a curved trunk Sabal. It won't be nearly as cool, but at least I shouldn't have to worry about it freezing.

The Silver Queens are supposed to be more cold hardy. Send me some seeds, and we'll find out. What does your B. odorata look like? I have found there are 2 maybe 3 Butias that are all being called B. capitata or now odorata. One is much cold hardier than the others. I am attaching photos of the cold hardy type with explanation. This type wasn't even defoliated by the freeze. The others were, and some were killed outright. I found a nursery growing these brutes and am going to bring a bunch in to resell and replace a few in my yard. If you have this type, try to use the Silver Queen pollen on it, or send me some and I will hit mine with it.

Shot of the entire plant. It is about 9' OA with 3' from ground to new spear.

It's newest fronds are a nice blue green or even silver color on some specimens with hooks like a Jubaea, but I don't think it is a hybrid. I compared it to the stats in Hodel's article in Palms and all the numbers match up with pure Butia odorata.

The trunk is massive. It is over 2' wide and I'm not sure that it has attained it's full caliper at the ground yet. The less cold hardy ones are usually about 18" wide at the ground. The leaf bases are shaped like those on a Jubaea, on the less cold hardy ones the bases are much narrower and the portion that is exposed is actually straight so that it appears that the petiole attaches directly to the trunk. Each rank of fronds is offset from the ones above and below on the hardier type. On the less cold hardy ones the leaf bases in each rank are directly above the bases in the previous rank. The cold hardy ones have heavy fiber on the petioles for at least a foot before it changes over to teeth. I have also found the cold hardier ones to be more tolerant of soil that is alkaline. I never need to put chelated iron on this beast, but the less cold hardy type becomes extremely chlorotic in my pH 7.8 soil if I don't give them chelated iron every spring. Also, this type is very slow to mature. The less cold hardy ones flower when their trunks aren't much larger than a basketball. This one flowered for the first time only 2 years ago when it had nearly 3' of trunk (from ground to where the spear emerges).

Martin in the case of your butias size matters. Those big ones are for sure odorata from south tip of brasil and uruguay. They are HUGE and at times remind of Jubaeas.

I am really sorry to hear about your Jubaeas , what a tragedy.

What are you doing with the butyagrus seeds to germinate them ? They should be easy to germinate, and from your cross section they were clearly good seeds. With the santa catarina pollen they would be extremely cold hardy too.

I soaked the seeds then placed them on a bed of perlite with about 1/2 the seed in the perlite and 1/2 above. Misted the perlite, and sealed the container. They are in the garage, so I'm sure it is too cool for them to sprout now, but it should have been warm enough when I first planted them. I might put them in the greenhouse. It gets pretty warm in there during the day. I don't think the house would be warm enough.

[Nigel]

The temp needs to be about 80F. The humidity needs to be right as well. They should germinate well in the right conditions.

When you open the box the seed needs to look sweaty, ie neither wet nor dry for perfect condtions. I have to wet my boxes and resoak seeds periodically to keep thejm germianting. Normally I do this every couple fo weeks or it gets to dry and germination stops.

[Palmzilla]

Finally completed the greenhouse.

I like your greenhouse, did you buy it as a kit?

Braden

[mjff]

The temp needs to be about 80F. The humidity needs to be right as well. They should germinate well in the right conditions.

When you open the box the seed needs to look sweaty, ie neither wet nor dry for perfect condtions. I have to wet my boxes and resoak seeds periodically to keep thejm germianting. Normally I do this every couple fo weeks or it gets to dry and germination stops.

I think I have the humidity right, probably been too cool though. I think I will move them in the greenhouse.

[mjff]

Finally completed the greenhouse.

I like your greenhouse, did you buy it as a kit?

Braden

I got it from Tek Supply, and put it together with help from 2 other guys. It was more work than I thought it would be, but then most things seem to wind up that way.

[Mark Heath]

Hey Martin,

I checked my Butia O and the leaf bases do not line up and the trunk is a fatty. Next year i will hit it w/ the silver queen pollen and shoot you some seeds.

[mjff]

Hey Martin,

I checked my Butia O and the leaf bases do not line up and the trunk is a fatty. Next year i will hit it w/ the silver queen pollen and shoot you some seeds.

Mark, That would be great. Got a photo of it? Was it very late to mature?

Nigel, I checked those hybrid seeds yesterday, and one of them did sprout, but it died before sending up a green shoot. I moved the box to the greenhouse where they should stay warmer than the garage.