Jubutyagrus hybrids update

[TimHopper]

I have a Jubutyagrus from Patric Schafer and it is my favorite- a very fast grower. I grew it to a 5 gal size for the first year, and planted it in July of 2009. It suffered double spear pull from last winter's low of 15*, but is was small. After the spear pulled, I kept the top dry, applied fungicide and it grew out fast. This growing season it nearly tripled in size. I've attached pics (from today)that show the first two spears that grew out after double spear pull. It is growing faster than my Tim Hopper butyagrus that was planted in 2004- I attached a pic of it. The butyagrus was a 1 gal strap leaf when planted. I am growing a Tim Hopper jubutyagrus to see how it does- it is attractive.

Great photos Matt. That tree is growing pretty fast. Tim

[gilles06]

I bought a jubutiagrus seedling from Patrick in spring 2008 and planted in ground at sring 2009. It has dark green color, is faster and very fat.

here is a photo of this seedling in march 2009 before planting in ground, that's the pot in the center

Salut.

[iamjv]

Gilles, that's amazing growth!!! The fronds have a very interesting and unique look to them. It's beautiful now but I can imagine how it'll look in the future as it matures. Gorgeous! Jv

[TimHopper]

Here is a comparison photo of an XJubutyagrus (right) and an XJubutia F3 (left) of the same age from the same mother tree. I isolated about 50 female flowers on my Jubutia F2 and pollinated them with Butia pollen, the rest with syagrus r.

Edited April 5, 2011 by TimHopper

[TimHopper]

XJubutyagrus

[TimHopper]

XJubutia F3

[sonoranfans]

Interesting to see the butia blood apparently gives rise to the v shaped leaflet arrangements and the jubaea blood gives rise to more flat leaflet arrangements that have less of the lighter green color. I have (3) of tims x-jubutiagrus seedlings that I received last september as small strap leafers, all are pushing 1st or 2nd pinnate fronds, all are flat. Even though they're just 12.5% jubaea((x-jubutia x butia) x syagrus), the mother was x-jubutia (vs x-bujubaea),and it seems to have retained lots of jubaea character, less butia even though its 25% butia. I like patricks beastly hybrid, never saw one like that. I would be very happy with either hybrid, but its fascinating that the hybrid expression varies so.

[Kailua_Krish]

The xJubutyagrus I got from Tim still hasnt gone pinnate yet What am I doing wrong that mine is growing slowly? Its planted in full sun and good soil, and gets plenty of water...

-Krishna

[Rafael]

I bought a few from Tim. Half an year ago. Think they are already acclimatized. But i wonder how cold hardy could be these seedlings, and if they need some protection (should i replace a dead b.alfredii with one of these? they are not yet pinnate).

Edited April 6, 2011 by rafael

[Kailua_Krish]

I bought a few from Tim. Half an year ago. Think they are already acclimatized. But i wonder how cold hardy could be these seedlings, and if they need some protection (should i replace a dead b.alfredii with one of these? they are not yet pinnate).

These are likely cold hardy below 15 degrees (mine was exposed to 21 with no ill effects), put it where the alfredii was!

-Krishna

[Collectorpalms]

These are NOT hardy to 15~! Two of three of mine died at 18 and they were protected. nearby mule seedlings did not flinch mine were from Tim,, so WARNING they are more tender when young.

>>>>>>>>>>>These are likely cold hardy below 15 degrees (mine was exposed to 21 with no ill effects), put it where the alfredii was!

-Krishna

Edited April 7, 2011 by Collectorpalms

[Kailua_Krish]

These are NOT hardy to 15~! Two of three of mine died at 18 and they were protected. nearby mule seedlings did not flinch mine were from Tim,, so WARNING they are more tender when young.

I wonder why they would be more cold sensitive, it makes no sense considering their genetic heritage.

Is this from when Texas was below freezing for like 3 days?

-Krishna

[sonoranfans]

The xJubutyagrus I got from Tim still hasnt gone pinnate yet What am I doing wrong that mine is growing slowly? Its planted in full sun and good soil, and gets plenty of water...

-Krishna

I kept mine in a 5 gallon container over the winter, brought them onto the porch(which gets sun in winter) when it got cold, they didnt go directly into the ground. 2 of the 3 I put in the ground in mid february this year when the cold spells ceased. These were bare root palms, you shouldnt put them directly into the ground. It is never a good idea to put a bare root palm into sandy soil as you cannot keep the limited roots consistently moist and fed. They will not be very cold hardy till they get a developed root system, like any other palm. The roots filled out the 5 gallons so I put 2 in the ground and advanced one into a 10 gallon container(its small for a ten, but it has more room). I had a small chamaerops cerifera that I had bare rooted in Arizona that nearly died from 28 degrees because it didnt have a developed root system.

I would never evaluate a bare rooted palm for cold hardiness until a few summers of growth went by. Bare rooting a palm SHOCKS it good. the only time I buy bare root palms is when I just cant get them potted...

Edited April 7, 2011 by sonoranfans

[Kailua_Krish]

The xJubutyagrus I got from Tim still hasnt gone pinnate yet What am I doing wrong that mine is growing slowly? Its planted in full sun and good soil, and gets plenty of water...

-Krishna

I kept mine in a 5 gallon container over the winter, brought them onto the porch(which gets sun in winter) when it got cold, they didnt go directly into the ground. 2 of the 3 I put in the ground in mid february this year when the cold spells ceased. These were bare root palms, you shouldnt put them directly into the ground. It is never a good idea to put a bare root palm into sandy soil as you cannot keep the limited roots consistently moist and fed. They will not be very cold hardy till they get a developed root system, like any other palm. The roots filled out the 5 gallons so I put 2 in the ground and advanced one into a 10 gallon container(its small for a ten, but it has more room). I had a small chamaerops cerifera that I had bare rooted in Arizona that nearly died from 28 degrees because it didnt have a developed root system.

I would never evaluate a bare rooted palm for cold hardiness until a few summers of growth went by. Bare rooting a palm SHOCKS it good. the only time I buy bare root palms is when I just cant get them potted...

I planted mine bare root in the ground last May, the soil it is in retains water very well, it is a Florida clay/loam mix. I had zero problems with the cold for this one, but it has been laying down roots all year. Since I am not at home most of the time it is often safer to put my smaller palms straight into the ground to avoid them drying out in pots. I guess/hope that after a year of establishing mine should take off pretty well this year.

-Krishna

[sonoranfans]

The xJubutyagrus I got from Tim still hasnt gone pinnate yet What am I doing wrong that mine is growing slowly? Its planted in full sun and good soil, and gets plenty of water...

-Krishna

I kept mine in a 5 gallon container over the winter, brought them onto the porch(which gets sun in winter) when it got cold, they didnt go directly into the ground. 2 of the 3 I put in the ground in mid february this year when the cold spells ceased. These were bare root palms, you shouldnt put them directly into the ground. It is never a good idea to put a bare root palm into sandy soil as you cannot keep the limited roots consistently moist and fed. They will not be very cold hardy till they get a developed root system, like any other palm. The roots filled out the 5 gallons so I put 2 in the ground and advanced one into a 10 gallon container(its small for a ten, but it has more room). I had a small chamaerops cerifera that I had bare rooted in Arizona that nearly died from 28 degrees because it didnt have a developed root system.

I would never evaluate a bare rooted palm for cold hardiness until a few summers of growth went by. Bare rooting a palm SHOCKS it good. the only time I buy bare root palms is when I just cant get them potted...

I planted mine bare root in the ground last May, the soil it is in retains water very well, it is a Florida clay/loam mix. I had zero problems with the cold for this one, but it has been laying down roots all year. Since I am not at home most of the time it is often safer to put my smaller palms straight into the ground to avoid them drying out in pots. I guess/hope that after a year of establishing mine should take off pretty well this year.

-Krishna

I sympathize with your situation, but I also had poor growth planting bare root palms in clay soil in arizona, and they were on irrigation timer. In clay, the moisture gradient can be greater top to bottom IF air drys the top layer of the soil. I look at bare root palms as if they were in critical care, they always seem to need extra attention. Clay soils are harder to determine dry cycles as they dry cycles are longer. Perhaps a moisture probe could help determine your cycle. Too wet at depth with inhibit root growth as will too dry up top. I realize clay retains water, but like I said the difference between the top of the soil and the bottom can be significant. Good luck with your jubutiagrus and keep us posted on its progress. It will be interesting to see the genetic variations in all the seedlings.

[Kailua_Krish]

The xJubutyagrus I got from Tim still hasnt gone pinnate yet What am I doing wrong that mine is growing slowly? Its planted in full sun and good soil, and gets plenty of water...

-Krishna

I kept mine in a 5 gallon container over the winter, brought them onto the porch(which gets sun in winter) when it got cold, they didnt go directly into the ground. 2 of the 3 I put in the ground in mid february this year when the cold spells ceased. These were bare root palms, you shouldnt put them directly into the ground. It is never a good idea to put a bare root palm into sandy soil as you cannot keep the limited roots consistently moist and fed. They will not be very cold hardy till they get a developed root system, like any other palm. The roots filled out the 5 gallons so I put 2 in the ground and advanced one into a 10 gallon container(its small for a ten, but it has more room). I had a small chamaerops cerifera that I had bare rooted in Arizona that nearly died from 28 degrees because it didnt have a developed root system.

I would never evaluate a bare rooted palm for cold hardiness until a few summers of growth went by. Bare rooting a palm SHOCKS it good. the only time I buy bare root palms is when I just cant get them potted...

I planted mine bare root in the ground last May, the soil it is in retains water very well, it is a Florida clay/loam mix. I had zero problems with the cold for this one, but it has been laying down roots all year. Since I am not at home most of the time it is often safer to put my smaller palms straight into the ground to avoid them drying out in pots. I guess/hope that after a year of establishing mine should take off pretty well this year.

-Krishna

I sympathize with your situation, but I also had poor growth planting bare root palms in clay soil in arizona, and they were on irrigation timer. In clay, the moisture gradient can be greater top to bottom IF air drys the top layer of the soil. I look at bare root palms as if they were in critical care, they always seem to need extra attention. Clay soils are harder to determine dry cycles as they dry cycles are longer. Perhaps a moisture probe could help determine your cycle. Too wet at depth with inhibit root growth as will too dry up top. I realize clay retains water, but like I said the difference between the top of the soil and the bottom can be significant. Good luck with your jubutiagrus and keep us posted on its progress. It will be interesting to see the genetic variations in all the seedlings.

Im sure it will be fine It looks very healthy, just not as big as what y'all have grown them. Maybe we can have a long term growth rate race! Thanks for the advice though, I really do appreciate it!

-Krishna

[buffy]

These are NOT hardy to 15~! Two of three of mine died at 18 and they were protected. nearby mule seedlings did not flinch mine were from Tim,, so WARNING they are more tender when young.

Dude. I have the same Tim Hopper Jubutygruses. Mine was protected with a blanket with this cold. Mine was untouched. Maybe some variable genetics.

[TimHopper]

This is my largest XJubutyagrus that is growing in a 7 gallon container. I sent it inland from my location in Florida to spend the Winter at my brother-in-laws house. He is in a cold pocket that frequently sees temperatures drop below 20f. It spent the two coldest months in an open area with full sun and no frost protection. The lowest recorded temp there was 17f and staying below 25f for 7 hours. Also multiple consecutive nights below freezing and heavy frosts. The leaflets really show no damage at all. The growth bud had some minor damage and after a few weeks of slow growth, pushed one stunted frond shown in this picture. It is still small for a real test of cold tolerance. Once the base is 6-8 inches diameter I think it will be more resilient. They are pretty easy to protect at this size anyway. The true test of hardiness is at a trunking size.

[Richard Booth]

Here's a pic of mine, just planted out a few weeks ago. This is (BxJ)xQ - i also have a JBxQ from Tim Hopper but this is only strap-leaved at present.

The BJxQ was in an unheated greenhouse all winter and is completely untouched, so thought it worth a punt outside. I don't know exactly how cold it got in there but it was low wnough to kill a large Nikau and decent-sized T Latisectus, plus numerous seedlings.

Cheers,

Richard

[TimHopper]

XJubutyagrus

[Rafael]

One of my Tim's seedlings, after nine slow growing months, went in, lets see how will it behave. I have choosed an open spot, where a b. alfredii died, some weeks ago.

[ErikSJI]

Here is a photo of some of Tim's Jubutyagrus. I bought these last year and they spent the winter in a unheated greenhouse On San Juan Island WA. We have seen many nights below 30F and quite a few under 20F 6 inches of snow on a couple occasions. They seem to be holding in there just as well if not better then the Mule Palms I have of the same size.

[TonyDFW]

I was out feeding the mosquitos this morning when....

I came upon a miraculous sight...

My JubeaXButiaXsyagrus hybrid survived last winter unprotected.

The first picture of this post is of this same palm in January 2011 before the February winter event where we had 100 consecutive hours below freezing and a low of 15°F.

[sonoranfans]

I have no doubt these Hopper x jubutyagrus are plenty hardy for me. Mine are really starting to take off with the warm weather. Here is a pic of the 3 strap leafers I received from Tim last october. they were bare rooted and I put them into 3 gallon containers right away.

Edited June 13, 2011 by sonoranfans

[sonoranfans]

And here is one of the two in the ground(one still in the container) since february this year. this pic was taken a month ago and its noticably bigger now,the stem is thickening and fronds are coming forth at an ever increasing rate it seems. All three of mine are about the same size whether in the ground or in a (10gal now) container. These palms all have a more satin green(soft) look than my x-butyagrus. The color of these palms is more striking than th emule or any of my crownshafted palms.

Edited June 13, 2011 by sonoranfans

[TimHopper]

I was out feeding the mosquitos this morning when....

I came upon a miraculous sight...

My JubeaXButiaXsyagrus hybrid survived last winter unprotected.

The first picture of this post is of this same palm in January 2011 before the February winter event where we had 100 consecutive hours below freezing and a low of 15°F.

Tony, That is amazing. That brown stump must have looked pretty hopeless. I am suprised to see the nice green leaflets pushing out.

[TimHopper]

And here is one of the two in the ground(one still in the container) since february this year. this pic was taken a month ago and its noticably bigger now,the stem is thickening and fronds are coming forth at an ever increasing rate it seems. All three of mine are about the same size whether in the ground or in a (10gal now) container. These palms all have a more satin green(soft) look than my x-butyagrus. The color of these palms is more striking than th emule or any of my crownshafted palms.

Tom, Yours looks happy in the ground, and maybe one of the largest from this brood. Mine is about the same size as yours and starting to show some new characteristics as it gets larger. The last two spears that mine has pushed have not opened until fully emerged. Here are some new photos.

Edited June 13, 2011 by TimHopper

[sonoranfans]

And here is one of the two in the ground(one still in the container) since february this year. this pic was taken a month ago and its noticably bigger now,the stem is thickening and fronds are coming forth at an ever increasing rate it seems. All three of mine are about the same size whether in the ground or in a (10gal now) container. These palms all have a more satin green(soft) look than my x-butyagrus. The color of these palms is more striking than th emule or any of my crownshafted palms.

Tom, Yours looks happy in the ground, and maybe one of the largest from this brood. Mine is about the same size as yours and starting to show some new characteristics as it gets larger. The last two spears that mine has pushed have not opened until fully emerged. Here are some new photos.

Could it be that your larger one is going vertical now? Mine seem to be thickening vs gaining in height, though they are in full sun, 7+ hours a day. To be honest tim, I only wanted one and you were offering a 3 for x. I figured I would offer one or two to someone else, perhaps a neighbor. But after watching them grow and seeing the unusual color and satin texture, I have become attached to these. I have a number of palms including >10 species of crownshafts that dont have as striking a leaflet color. I like my x-butyagrus, but these look notably more tropical(more satin medium green,less glossy dark green like x butyagrus) and have a more eye catching leaflet color. I am also anticipating some big trunks from the jubaea blood. I have plenty of florikan palm special and fish emulsion fert. to make that happen.

[TimHopper]

My largest XJubutyagrus is growing fast during these Summer months. This shows the growth in just 8 weeks since my last post above. It is about five feet all from the soil height. This is the same tree that I sent to my brother-in-laws house inland North Florida for a cold Winter test (in post #58 above). I need to plant one of the 7 gallon ones in the ground (maybe today). Tim

Edited August 18, 2011 by TimHopper

[ErikSJI]

Beautiful looking palm Tim. The ones I received from you are doing well. The ones in Florida are growing at twice the rate as the ones in Washington. That is the case with anything I have up north accept for the grass.

[sonoranfans]

My largest XJubutyagrus is growing fast during these Summer months. This shows the growth in just 8 weeks since my last post above. It is about five feet all from the soil height. This is the same tree that I sent to my brother-in-laws house inland North Florida for a cold Winter test (in post #58 above). I need to plant one of the 7 gallon ones in the ground (maybe today). Tim

Tim,

Here is a pic of one of my strap leafers I got from you(middle one in post 64) that has been in the ground since spring. Its the same one as in post 65 but this pic is 2 months later. Its not really growing much in height(~3'), but its probably almost 5' wide and is really thickening the trunk. Here

[sonoranfans]

Here is the stem with a beer bottle for scale...

[Adam from Oz]

I want one.

Um.....who do I have to, um, "speak with" to get one?

Adam

[sonoranfans]

I want one.

Um.....who do I have to, um, "speak with" to get one?

Adam

Not sure if Tim(TimHopper) has any left Adam, or if he ships. I would contact him by PM and ask. Mine are from Tim. Tims have jubaea in the mother(species listed first in the cross) from 1st gen on(Jubaea x butia vs butia x jubaea)-> ((jubaea x butia) x butia)x syagrus. These seem to have a different color than the butia x jubaea 1st gen palms. Not sure what it means, but time will tell. When I compare mine to my x-butyagrus(butia x syagrus, also a pretty palm), the x-jubutyagrus are obviously very different in leaflet color and also somewhat in shape, more tropical looking to my eye.

[Adam from Oz]

Thanks.

I have pm'ed Tim, Tom and ask him this question:

What is lacking in this photo that would make an Australian palmophile dance in his heart to see?

Do you think that's too sycophantic?

Cheers,

Adam

[TimHopper]

If I had the skill, I would photoshop an XJubutyagrus just in front of those benches. No wonder they are unoccupied. Tim

[Adam from Oz]

Sad thing is, Tim.............I did...

me again

[TimHopper]

I have more XJubutyagrus seeds that I crossed a few weeks ago with good seed set. These should be ripe in a couple of weeks.

[tank]

Tim,

Did you get a cross on this hybrid w/ the parajubaea pollen?

[TimHopper]

Tim,

Did you get a cross on this hybrid w/ the parajubaea pollen?

Timing was off. Waiting for my Jubutia to produce another spathe.