Jubutyagrus hybrids update

[AggiePalms]

Boy, those look great! Different from the three DNA source species, but certainly you can see the ancestry. I think they would look great in my yard, with various Syagrus and Butia species. All variants on a theme.

I am intending to buy and plant a Jubaea (most likely-I have a good source) or Jubaea hybrid (no source) this summer. I have read all the stories "don't plant these in the SE USA, they can't handle the heat and humidity". That doesn't seem to be totally valid. Winters can get down to 20 F or so one or two nights a year, so colder than Florida, but is that a problem for these palms, or just summers?

Which of the various Jubaea and Jubaea hybrids would work the best for me? I would love to try them all, but don't have enough room in the yard to try them all.

[sonoranfans]

Boy, those look great! Different from the three DNA source species, but certainly you can see the ancestry. I think they would look great in my yard, with various Syagrus and Butia species. All variants on a theme.

I am intending to buy and plant a Jubaea (most likely-I have a good source) or Jubaea hybrid (no source) this summer. I have read all the stories "don't plant these in the SE USA, they can't handle the heat and humidity". That doesn't seem to be totally valid. Winters can get down to 20 F or so one or two nights a year, so colder than Florida, but is that a problem for these palms, or just summers?

Which of the various Jubaea and Jubaea hybrids would work the best for me? I would love to try them all, but don't have enough room in the yard to try them all.

Hi David,

In your 8b 9a you can grow lots of these hybrids. I expect x-jubutyagrus, x-butyagrus, jubutia, and soon to come the jubutia x parajubaea, or butia x parajubaea. Any of these should be fine in your 8b/9a zone once they get some roots(to 5 gallon size or so). I would grow them in containers for the first year, them in the first winter, then plant them out. Good luck, there are several hybridizers who carry these on this board.

[Palm crazy]

First pinnate leaf.

Very slow growing for me. Last winters low was 15F. All dead leaves were cut off.

Looks totally different from regular mule palm.

- Roger

Edited August 20, 2011 by Palm crazy

[AggiePalms]

Boy, those look great! Different from the three DNA source species, but certainly you can see the ancestry. I think they would look great in my yard, with various Syagrus and Butia species. All variants on a theme.

I am intending to buy and plant a Jubaea (most likely-I have a good source) or Jubaea hybrid (no source) this summer. I have read all the stories "don't plant these in the SE USA, they can't handle the heat and humidity". That doesn't seem to be totally valid. Winters can get down to 20 F or so one or two nights a year, so colder than Florida, but is that a problem for these palms, or just summers?

Which of the various Jubaea and Jubaea hybrids would work the best for me? I would love to try them all, but don't have enough room in the yard to try them all.

Hi David,

In your 8b 9a you can grow lots of these hybrids. I expect x-jubutyagrus, x-butyagrus, jubutia, and soon to come the jubutia x parajubaea, or butia x parajubaea. Any of these should be fine in your 8b/9a zone once they get some roots(to 5 gallon size or so). I would grow them in containers for the first year, them in the first winter, then plant them out. Good luck, there are several hybridizers who carry these on this board.

Tom -

That's great news! I didn't realize there were so many Jubaea crosses, much less that these would grow here. I will definitely contact the people hera and get some started.

[sergiskan]

hello

... good growth for my climate ... maybe faster than the butiagrus in my inexperienced hands ...

... I really like the look begins to show ...newly planted last month ....

... the leaves remind me of something ... Jubaea??

...maybe one day more hybrids are sold online from U.S. to Europe...thanks Tim...

...best regards.

[gyuseppe]

...maybe one day more hybrids are sold online from U.S. to Europe...thanks Tim...

I'd be very happy !, but Italian customs to stop all the plants and seeds from outside the EU

[Nigel]

...maybe one day more hybrids are sold online from U.S. to Europe...thanks Tim...

I'd be very happy !, but Italian customs to stop all the plants and seeds from outside the EU

Gyuseppe, I just sent some free seedlings to a couple of palm friends in Rome, arrived safely.

[gyuseppe]

Nigel you do not have written the contents: seeds, seedlings? Is that it?

let me guess you have sent seedlings to max-Massimo and sergio,Is that it?

[Nigel]

Nigel you do not have written the contents: seeds, seedlings? Is that it?

let me guess you have sent seedlings to max-Massimo and sergio,Is that it?

yes Gyuseppe, I sent them a poster

[ErikSJI]

Nigel you do not have written the contents: seeds, seedlings? Is that it?

let me guess you have sent seedlings to max-Massimo and sergio,Is that it?

yes Gyuseppe, I sent them a poster

Gyuseppe,

We send seeds and plants to Italy and mark the contents of the package. Our plant material is inspected before it leaves the country. What Nigel is doing would be illegal and it could be held up in customs and you could be seeing a hefty fine if caught. This is how and why you see the spread of palm disease by unregistered nurseries sending plant material out of the country.

[Mandrew968]

Posters don't spread diseases

[ErikSJI]

Posters don't spread diseases

[gyuseppe]

Edited August 24, 2011 by gyuseppe

[ErikSJI]

Actually seeds do as well. If they are not cleaned properly and dried before shipping. I received a batch of seeds from someone and unexpectedly got them right off the tree. There were bugs in the box. For cleaned and dried seed usually a simple customs declaration form is all that is necessary. If the contents that are in the package are not declared properly not only the sender but the receiver of such goods can be fined and those seeds or seedlings that you paid $10.00 for now cost you over $300.00 and you do not get your product.

[sergiskan]

...maybe one day more hybrids are sold online from U.S. to Europe...thanks Tim...

I'd be very happy !, but Italian customs to stop all the plants and seeds from outside the EU

hi Gyussepe

...I am delighted with the palm ...

... but I think on the other side of the ocean takes us far ahead ...on hibrids trade...

... I'm wishing and hoping that my cocoids bloom soon ... at least butia ...

regards

sergio.

[TimHopper]

My new XJubutyagrus seeds are ripe and cleaned. If anyone is interested in getting seeds, click on this link. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260842753057

[MAUSER]

My new XJubutyagrus seeds are ripe and cleaned. If anyone is interested in getting seeds, click on this link. http://cgi.ebay.com/...em=260842753057

You says this tree is a JUBAEAXBUTIA?

[TimHopper]

It is (JxB)xB F2 and seeds are result of pollenation with syagrus R.

Edited August 27, 2011 by TimHopper

[MAUSER]

It is (JxB)xB F2 and seeds are result of pollenation with syagrus R.

Hi

When I saw it the first time, the impression was that it was a "Butia vulgaris", and have seen thousands of Butias ... I've been talking to others and have agreed that it was Butia.

Since the first pollination... until today ... being Jubaea the mother... and three crosses... are at least 45 years ...

I maybe can be wrong.

regards

[TimHopper]

My Jubutia F2 mother tree was a 3 gallon gift from Merrill about 8 years ago. Considering the years of crosses leading up to my Jubutia F2, I would say 45 years is a consevative estimate. My Jubutia shows obvious traits of Jubaea as well as Butia. It also flowered much earlier than I expected which is characteristic of Butia. I will try to get some better photos of trunk and crown today.

[TimHopper]

[TimHopper]

[Adam from Oz]

That black bag around the seeds cracks me up for some reason. Like it's wearing a veil.

Is that Syagrus r___________ behind it the donor plant?

Cheers,

Adam

[MAUSER]

Hi

That tree is very much like a Butia yatai overpruned.

JubaeaXbutia ... it would make more sense XSyagrus

A cross JubaeaXbutia should not have spines on the petioles in the first generation. And neither, or very tiny, in later generations.

The seeds are also similar to Butia yatai

I don´t see any trace of Jubaea, sorry.

Sometimes the hybrids are failure.

The hybrid JubaeaXbutia, more or less should look like this. (It isn´t see very well because reflect the sun, but you can get one idea)

Regards

Edited August 27, 2011 by MAUSER

[Nigel]

A cross JubaeaXbutia should not have spines on the petioles in the first generation. And neither, or very tiny, in later generations.

Regards

Mauser , spines do reappear in F2 and subsequent generations when backcrossed with Butia.

I have some of Dicks F2,s with spines appearing.

[MAUSER]

A cross JubaeaXbutia should not have spines on the petioles in the first generation. And neither, or very tiny, in later generations.

Regards

Mauser , spines do reappear in F2 and subsequent generations when backcrossed with Butia.

I have some of Dicks F2,s with spines appearing.

For that I said, "or very tiny, in later generations".

So everyone get his own conclusions

Edited August 27, 2011 by MAUSER

[swolf]

Mauser, Merrill's F2 Jubaea hybrid can be seen at the bottom of post 2 in the link below. The history of the F1 hybrid at Fairchild (Miami) has been described/documented by Merrill. I think it's just an issue of how diluted (with butia) subsequent generations become. It can be hard to judge these things from afar e.g. what appears as spines in a photo can be mostly fiber.

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=11139&st=0&p=192072&hl=nanny&fromsearch=1&#entry192072

Steve

St. Augustine, FL

[MAUSER]

Mauser, Merrill's F2 Jubaea hybrid can be seen at the bottom of post 2 in the link below. The history of the F1 hybrid at Fairchild (Miami) has been described/documented by Merrill. I think it's just an issue of how diluted (with butia) subsequent generations become. It can be hard to judge these things from afar e.g. what appears as spines in a photo can be mostly fiber.

http://www.palmtalk....=1

Steve

St. Augustine, FL

F2 spines

[MAUSER]

Mauser, Merrill's F2 Jubaea hybrid can be seen at the bottom of post 2 in the link below. The history of the F1 hybrid at Fairchild (Miami) has been described/documented by Merrill. I think it's just an issue of how diluted (with butia) subsequent generations become. It can be hard to judge these things from afar e.g. what appears as spines in a photo can be mostly fiber.

http://www.palmtalk....=1

Steve

St. Augustine, FL

In my opinion, These palms are different

Hybrid

Butia

Edited August 27, 2011 by MAUSER

[swolf]

The attached picture is the palm from post #2 of the link. Merrill identified it as his F2 Jubutia -- (JXB)XB. He backcrossed this with butia to start subsequent generations (Tim's palm is one of these).

Steve

St. Augustine, FL

[NCpalmqueen]

Hey...those are my photos and that is me in that last one.....I am always amazed how photos pass around the internet :-(

I have several of Patrick!s hybrids growing here in NC Z7/8. My 4 yo j x b x s. is doing really well. I!ll snap a photo today in between wind gusts.

[Nigel]

The attached picture is the palm from post #2 of the link. Merrill identified it as his F2 Jubutia -- (JXB)XB. He backcrossed this with butia to start subsequent generations (Tim's palm is one of these).

Steve

St. Augustine, FL

The other odd thing about Merrills xjubautia splendens is the blueness not usually present.

I think the factors that make the variation, is whether it is Butia or Jubaea as mother,which generation it is and has it backcrossed with Butia or Jubaea or self pollinated.

I am not convinced they are incapable of self pollination, the tauranga jxB produces a handful of seeds that produce plants that are unlike other hybrids I have grown.

All the JxB I have grown here have been quite green, barring the merrill f3 which was exceedingly blue and with spines.

[TimHopper]

Mauser, Merrill's F2 Jubaea hybrid can be seen at the bottom of post 2 in the link below. The history of the F1 hybrid at Fairchild (Miami) has been described/documented by Merrill. I think it's just an issue of how diluted (with butia) subsequent generations become. It can be hard to judge these things from afar e.g. what appears as spines in a photo can be mostly fiber.

http://www.palmtalk....=1

Steve

St. Augustine, FL

In my opinion, These palms are different

Hybrid

Butia

Yes, They are different palms. Your top photo is Merrills XJubutyagrus, and the bottom is ((Jubaea x Butia)x Butia)

[iamjv]

Merrill's hybrid in post #110 (Hi Cindy) is awesome!!!! I have an off spring of that palm as well and hope it grows up to look similar! Jv

[TimHopper]

The attached picture is the palm from post #2 of the link. Merrill identified it as his F2 Jubutia -- (JXB)XB. He backcrossed this with butia to start subsequent generations (Tim's palm is one of these).

Steve

St. Augustine, FL

Thanks Steve for helping to clear that up. I could not remember where that photo was posted. They say, "the memory is first to go", I think, I can't remember.

[swolf]

Hey...those are my photos and that is me in that last one.....I am always amazed how photos pass around the internet :-(

I have several of Patrick!s hybrids growing here in NC Z7/8. My 4 yo j x b x s. is doing really well. I!ll snap a photo today in between wind gusts.

Yeah Cindy, I caught your photo trending up on twitter -- pretty sure it just went viral!

But... it so happens that photo can also be found in the palmtalk thread that you started . I just wanted to help Mauser ID the correct palm.

Steve

St. Augustine, FL

[MAUSER]

And finally ... This completes my statement, I don´t want to convince anyone of anything.

If this was a hybrid ... (I´m not convinced) I don´t know how someone is crossing a Jubaea 45 years, to finally have a butia, looking like butia, butia seeds, and problems for cross hybrids (supposed low yield) ... Does the work has been lost?. Not It´s better to buy a butia and finish before?.

These seeds are the same as Butia hybrids (butiaX...), I don´t see Jubaea nowhere yet.

Edited August 28, 2011 by MAUSER

[gyuseppe]

And finally ... This completes my statement, I don´t want to convince anyone of anything.

If this was a hybrid ... (I´m not convinced) I don´t know how someone is crossing a Jubaea 45 years, to finally have a butia, looking like butia, butia seeds, and problems for cross hybrids (supposed low yield) ... Does the work has been lost?. Not It´s better to buy a butia and finish before?.

These seeds are the same as Butia hybrids (butiaX...), I don´t see Jubaea nowhere yet.

Antonio in the end ,are you saying that they are seeds of Butia x Syagrus ?

[TimHopper]

Mauser, I do know that my tree is offspring of Merrills Jubutia. Jubaea lineage can't be erased from the mother side. I am happy with my tree knowing that there was Jubaea mother in it's ancestry. If you want to call it pure Butia, you may. I really don't mind. Tim

Edited August 28, 2011 by TimHopper

[Nigel]

Mauser there was a mature palm labelled as Jubaea at the Fairchild Botanical garden but Merrill realised it was not a pure Jubaea but a hybrid and cultivated its seeds which is where the palm in his photo comes from.

This is the ancestor of the palm Tim has , I dont know if anybody has a photo of the Fairchild JxB, this link has an old photo but its not a very good one.

http://www.floridata.com/ref/j/juba_chi.cfm

Edited August 28, 2011 by Nigel