BUTIA X PARAJUBAEA

[PalmGuyWC]

Because it's so cold in N. Calif. during winter not much grows except winter grasses and weeds. Yesterday I made a great discovery, as the Butia X Parajubaea has its first bloom spathe. It is about a foot long and is a dull brown color and is about 4 feet above the ground. It is growing sideways at a 45 degree angle from the trunk as a Parajubaea would. I immediately called Patrick Schafer to tell him the good news, and he said as far as he knows this is the first of his many hybrids that has bloomed. The palm is about 9 or 10 years old. I will keep you updated.

Dick

[Nigel]

Wowowowowowowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

[tank]

Any Pics?

[edbrown_III]

Pictures of the flowers would be interesting.

Best regards

Ed

[PalmGuyWC]

Pictures of the flowers would be interesting.

Best regards

Ed

Pictures of the flowers will be forth coming, but that's probably months away.

Dick

[freakypalmguy]

Tease Very cool new Dick. Any plans with it yet? Wait and see if it sets it own viable seed or hybridize her?

[Kailua_Krish]

Just wanted to offer you a CONGRATS!

-Krishna

[Charles Wychgel]

Pictures of the flowers would be interesting.

Best regards

Ed

Pictures of the flowers will be forth coming, but that's probably months away.

Dick

Congratulations, you are numero uno !!!!

Pictures of the spathe would be interesting as well

[Mark Heath]

This is fantastic news!! This means mine will be flowering this year or the next seeing mine is a bit smaller than yours.

One can only hope that the BXP is not self sterill, but seeing everything else is i will have to pollinate my BXP w/ Queen pollen. That would be a cool hybrid too!!

Great news Dick,,, Congratulations!!!!!

[Patrick]

Very cool news- a great looking plant and I'm sure it's future is already being planned, if not planned already!

[Tassie_Troy1971]

congratulations Dick !

That was one of my favorites (of many) palms when visiting your garden in September . The gracefulness of a parajubaea cocoides and the hardiness of a butia Capitata -what a winning combination .

Will the seeds be viable ???

[iamjv]

Congrats Dick (& Patrick) on getting one of these babies to this stage. How exciting! Sadly I have to report that my BxP is the only palm that didn't successfully transplant to the new garden and has kicked the bucket... I'm bummed! Jv

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

Anyone in a very hot, humid sumer climate experimenting with this hybrid? Since we've had harsh winters recently, I want to replace the wimpy stuff that can't take temps down to 20ish (-7C), but then I run into species that don't like our 6 month sauna.

[Gallop]

Keith, I'm growing a couple in Pensacola Fl and they love it.

[Kailua_Krish]

Anyone in a very hot, humid sumer climate experimenting with this hybrid? Since we've had harsh winters recently, I want to replace the wimpy stuff that can't take temps down to 20ish (-7C), but then I run into species that don't like our 6 month sauna.

I have one in Ocala and it does well too. Also have the Jubaea x Syagrus which I was worried would not like our heat/humidity. Thankfully the syagrus genes seem to have taken over in that aspect and it grows fastest for me during the summer!

-Krishna

[PalmGuyWC]

Very cool news- a great looking plant and I'm sure it's future is already being planned, if not planned already!

Patrick, you are correct. We have discussed what is to be done with this first flowering which probably won't be ready until late spring or summer. First, I think we need to determine if the pollen is viable and will pollinate the mother palm. The pollen from this pallm can be tried on Butia, Syagrus and Jubaea. Patrick is anxious to try it on Jubaea since he has been unable to cross Jubaea with any of the Parajubaeas, but maybe with half Butia it will work. I'm sure no stone will be unturned.

Dick

[sonoranfans]

this butia x parajubaea is a gorgeous cross, one of the best hybrids I've seen. Anyone know of any that are available??

[mjff]

This is fantastic news!! This means mine will be flowering this year or the next seeing mine is a bit smaller than yours.

One can only hope that the BXP is not self sterill, but seeing everything else is i will have to pollinate my BXP w/ Queen pollen. That would be a cool hybrid too!!

Great news Dick,,, Congratulations!!!!!

What about (BxP)xJ Mark?

[Mark Heath]

This is fantastic news!! This means mine will be flowering this year or the next seeing mine is a bit smaller than yours.

One can only hope that the BXP is not self sterill, but seeing everything else is i will have to pollinate my BXP w/ Queen pollen. That would be a cool hybrid too!!

Great news Dick,,, Congratulations!!!!!

What about (BxP)xJ Mark?

Martin, I deffinatly will do that cross for sure! Let's hope that my BXP flowers this year! And of course Martin, i will send half of the seeds to you for your stud pollen.

Also, i plan to pollinate my BXP w/ Queen if Jubaea is'nt avaliable. Might not be seeing people are coming out of the woodwork for your Jubaea pollen. If the BXP is'nt ready, then i'll use the pollen on my Butia and i will send half of those seeds to you as well.

I will try the pollen also on my S.Schizophylla X Queen.

Also, if the BXP does'nt accept it's own pollen, then i could send you some BXP pollen to hit your Jubaea with!

[Nigel]

If it was me the first thing I would do would be to determine if BxP is self fertile, because if it is then you can produce many many new BxP from the one mother plant.

[mjff]

This is fantastic news!! This means mine will be flowering this year or the next seeing mine is a bit smaller than yours.

One can only hope that the BXP is not self sterill, but seeing everything else is i will have to pollinate my BXP w/ Queen pollen. That would be a cool hybrid too!!

Great news Dick,,, Congratulations!!!!!

What about (BxP)xJ Mark?

Martin, I deffinatly will do that cross for sure! Let's hope that my BXP flowers this year! And of course Martin, i will send half of the seeds to you for your stud pollen.

Also, i plan to pollinate my BXP w/ Queen if Jubaea is'nt avaliable. Might not be seeing people are coming out of the woodwork for your Jubaea pollen. If the BXP is'nt ready, then i'll use the pollen on my Butia and i will send half of those seeds to you as well.

I will try the pollen also on my S.Schizophylla X Queen.

Also, if the BXP does'nt accept it's own pollen, then i could send you some BXP pollen to hit your Jubaea with!

You are first on the list for the Jubaea pollen. I'm hopeful it will produce multiple spathes this year since it hasn't produced in 4 years. The other one produced 3 last year, but they were impossible to reach because of the dense fronds on that one.

I will be hitting it with Syagrus pollen, Butia pollen, and XXXXXXXXXX (redacted, project classified Top Secret ). I may skip the Butia pollen though. I'm pretty sure at least one of the spathes on the other Jubaea got pollinated by the bees and wasps with Butia pollen already. The first fruit that ripened was much larger than the last batches, so I'm thinking those are JxB hybrids. We'll see if I can get them to sprout.

I agree with Nigel. Somebody should determine whether BxP is self-fertile. If it isn't, that will also mean it's pollen is sterile if I understand how that works correctly.

[Mark Heath]

Martin,

The BXJ is self sterill, it will not accept it's own pollen. But, it will accept Butia or Jubaea pollen and you can use the BXJ pollen on another palm. The BXJ pollen is viable but not on it's mother,,,, go figure! So,,, BXP pollen will work w/ your Jubaea so no worries!

Let's hope that the BXP accepts it's own pollen, but i doubt it seeing that other hybrids rarely do.

Just because the mother hybrid does'nt accept it's own pollen does'nt mean that the pollen is'nt viable.

[mjff]

Martin,

The BXJ is self sterill, it will not accept it's own pollen. But, it will accept Butia or Jubaea pollen and you can use the BXJ pollen on another palm. The BXJ pollen is viable but not on it's mother,,,, go figure! So,,, BXP pollen will work w/ your Jubaea so no worries!

Let's hope that the BXP accepts it's own pollen, but i doubt it seeing that other hybrids rarely do.

Just because the mother hybrid does'nt accept it's own pollen does'nt mean that the pollen is'nt viable.

I could have sworn I read on one of the threads that the reason that Mule Palms were self-sterile was because their pollen wasn't viable? Does the BxS pollen work on other palms?

[Mark Heath]

Martin,

The BXJ is self sterill, it will not accept it's own pollen. But, it will accept Butia or Jubaea pollen and you can use the BXJ pollen on another palm. The BXJ pollen is viable but not on it's mother,,,, go figure! So,,, BXP pollen will work w/ your Jubaea so no worries!

Let's hope that the BXP accepts it's own pollen, but i doubt it seeing that other hybrids rarely do.

Just because the mother hybrid does'nt accept it's own pollen does'nt mean that the pollen is'nt viable.

I could have sworn I read on one of the threads that the reason that Mule Palms were self-sterile was because their pollen wasn't viable? Does the BxS pollen work on other palms?

I have heard of people using the BXS pollen and getting results, but a low seed count.

I also have heard that BXS pollen is not viable, but i think it is viable to some small degree. If you want, i'll pollinate my Butia w/ the BXP pollen and let you know the results! I'll keep my fingers crossed.

[mjff]

Martin,

The BXJ is self sterill, it will not accept it's own pollen. But, it will accept Butia or Jubaea pollen and you can use the BXJ pollen on another palm. The BXJ pollen is viable but not on it's mother,,,, go figure! So,,, BXP pollen will work w/ your Jubaea so no worries!

Let's hope that the BXP accepts it's own pollen, but i doubt it seeing that other hybrids rarely do.

Just because the mother hybrid does'nt accept it's own pollen does'nt mean that the pollen is'nt viable.

I could have sworn I read on one of the threads that the reason that Mule Palms were self-sterile was because their pollen wasn't viable? Does the BxS pollen work on other palms?

I have heard of people using the BXS pollen and getting results, but a low seed count.

I also have heard that BXS pollen is not viable, but i think it is viable to some small degree. If you want, i'll pollinate my Butia w/ the BXP pollen and let you know the results! I'll keep my fingers crossed.

My recollection is that some BxS are self-fertile, and it is because those are the few that have viable pollen, while the majority are not self-fertile because their pollen is not viable.

I've got plenty of palms that I can test the BxP pollen on around here, so go ahead and send some when you get it.

[PalmGuyWC]

I just discovered the Butia X Parajubaea has a second bloom spike. Whoope!!! They are hard to see because they are brown and blend in with the heavy fiber at the bases of the petioles. It's rather odd that it's pushing out sheves in the middle of winter. All of my other Cocoids bloom in spring or summer.

Dick

[Nigel]

Dick this may be a flowering behaviour of Parajubaea due to a more pronounced winter season. Butia eriospatha has this flowering behaviour, pushing out spathes in winter. It is very odd to go to the cold mountain in winter and see eriospathas pushing out spathes whilst the Butia catarinensis and sp florianopolis wait for spring before pushing out spathes.

[freakypalmguy]

Exciting news Dick. Two of my Butia have started pushing and I'm a bit shocked as well, considering we just had some really cold weather.

Edited January 17, 2011 by freakypalmguy

[Gallop]

My largest BXS is pushing 3 spathes this winter its first time to do so.

[freakypalmguy]

Dick sent me a picture to post of the emerging spathe on this beauty,

so here she is in all her glory

[PalmGuyWC]

Matt, thanks for posting the photo. As you can see the spathe is emerging at a 45 degree angle to the trunk. I'm told this is a common trait of the Parajubaeas. The other less developed spathe seems to be emerging in a vertical position.

Dick

[Mark Heath]

Cool. never seen one like it. Thanks Matt for posting that awesome pic!!!

[PalmGuyWC]

I'm bumping this thread to the front page as it has the most current photos of my Butia X Parajubaea, also a photo of the first bloom spathe. Thanks to Troy (Tassie Troy) who visited from Tasmania in Sept, 2010 and took the photos.

Dick

[Sutter Bob]

Thanks for bumping this thread Dick. Exciting news on those blooms.

Your specimen is a real beauty.

It was great to see it in person last fall.

Hope to see more of these in northern California over the next few years.

The hybrid I got from Patrick is looking good.

[The Germinator]

Very cool news- a great looking plant and I'm sure it's future is already being planned, if not planned already!

Patrick, you are correct. We have discussed what is to be done with this first flowering which probably won't be ready until late spring or summer. First, I think we need to determine if the pollen is viable and will pollinate the mother palm. The pollen from this pallm can be tried on Butia, Syagrus and Jubaea. Patrick is anxious to try it on Jubaea since he has been unable to cross Jubaea with any of the Parajubaeas, but maybe with half Butia it will work. I'm sure no stone will be unturned.

Dick

WOW, Dr Frankenstein has nothing on you guys. I just hope all this work ends up with some plants that will be redily available in the future. It is amazing that other species come to market quite quickly with cultivars more suited for the garden, but with palms there are not any. Even the mule palm is an Easter egg hunt just to find one.

My only guess would be they take soooo long to grow.

[Kailua_Krish]

Very cool news- a great looking plant and I'm sure it's future is already being planned, if not planned already!

Patrick, you are correct. We have discussed what is to be done with this first flowering which probably won't be ready until late spring or summer. First, I think we need to determine if the pollen is viable and will pollinate the mother palm. The pollen from this pallm can be tried on Butia, Syagrus and Jubaea. Patrick is anxious to try it on Jubaea since he has been unable to cross Jubaea with any of the Parajubaeas, but maybe with half Butia it will work. I'm sure no stone will be unturned.

Dick

WOW, Dr Frankenstein has nothing on you guys. I just hope all this work ends up with some plants that will be redily available in the future. It is amazing that other species come to market quite quickly with cultivars more suited for the garden, but with palms there are not any. Even the mule palm is an Easter egg hunt just to find one.

My only guess would be they take soooo long to grow.

At least on the east coast the mule is becoming rapidly available. One well known North Carolina nursery stocks them and offers them in their catalog, eBay almost always has some on it, and some garden centers are starting to carry them as the result of the works of the large scale hybridizers in Florida. I think it is just a matter of supply building up to meet potential demand and also price decreasing. No sane person (us palm people are not sane ) wants to pay what we would pay for a palm when they could go buy a queen or something at the big box store and not know the difference! As a plant like the mule, which isnt terribly difficult to make, becomes more common due to people commercially producing them (their fast growth helps) more people will see them surviving and looking good in landscapes and thus will buy them!

-Krishna

P.S. I know around my parts neighbors asked me about them and bought them after the past winter made all the queens look awful. Keeping up with the Joneses is a powerful market force

[ErikSJI]

This is fantastic news!! This means mine will be flowering this year or the next seeing mine is a bit smaller than yours.

One can only hope that the BXP is not self sterill, but seeing everything else is i will have to pollinate my BXP w/ Queen pollen. That would be a cool hybrid too!!

Great news Dick,,, Congratulations!!!!!

What about (BxP)xJ Mark?

Martin, I deffinatly will do that cross for sure! Let's hope that my BXP flowers this year! And of course Martin, i will send half of the seeds to you for your stud pollen.

Also, i plan to pollinate my BXP w/ Queen if Jubaea is'nt avaliable. Might not be seeing people are coming out of the woodwork for your Jubaea pollen. If the BXP is'nt ready, then i'll use the pollen on my Butia and i will send half of those seeds to you as well.

I will try the pollen also on my S.Schizophylla X Queen.

Also, if the BXP does'nt accept it's own pollen, then i could send you some BXP pollen to hit your Jubaea with!

You are first on the list for the Jubaea pollen. I'm hopeful it will produce multiple spathes this year since it hasn't produced in 4 years. The other one produced 3 last year, but they were impossible to reach because of the dense fronds on that one.

I will be hitting it with Syagrus pollen, Butia pollen, and XXXXXXXXXX (redacted, project classified Top Secret ). I may skip the Butia pollen though. I'm pretty sure at least one of the spathes on the other Jubaea got pollinated by the bees and wasps with Butia pollen already. The first fruit that ripened was much larger than the last batches, so I'm thinking those are JxB hybrids. We'll see if I can get them to sprout.

I agree with Nigel. Somebody should determine whether BxP is self-fertile. If it isn't, that will also mean it's pollen is sterile if I understand how that works correctly.

Can I be second on that list for pollen?

[mjff]

Can I be second on that list for pollen?

The list is already 3 long. What have you got to trade? I hope the emerging spathes weren't damaged by the cold we just had.

Speaking of cold damage and B x P, the dubious title of quickest to show cold damage after a freeze goes to mine. We've been above freezing for only a few hours and it already looks like this.

The photo really doesn't do justice to the chocolate brown color it has turned. I believe this is more the result of snow/ice than the cold since it did not do this last year when we got down to the same temperature and were actually below 15F for longer. We have had heavy frosts this year that did not damage it, so I believe they aren't damaged by frost, but if you are going to have snow, sleet or freezing rain it might be a good idea to cover it. I'm fairly certain my other Mules will be defoliated too, but they are still green. Up close you can see (and smell) that their fronds are damaged though. Anybody else ever notice that newly damaged fronds have a distinct smell to them?

[PalmGuyWC]

Hi Martin,

I guess after two very cold Texas winters, the Butia X Parajubaea has gotten the ultimate cold test. I guess they will take 15F but not with snow and ice. That's pretty damn cold hardy for any palm. It may be to early, but would like to know how your other cocoid hybrids faired.

Dick

[ErikSJI]

Hi Martin,

I guess after two very cold Texas winters, the Butia X Parajubaea has gotten the ultimate cold test. I guess they will take 15F but not with snow and ice. That's pretty damn cold hardy for any palm. It may be to early, but would like to know how your other cocoid hybrids faired.

Dick

In the future they may take even lower temps. These palms are not even close to trunking yet.