Mexican Fan close to pool

[rlowe]

I have read some old posts here claiming it is OK to plant palms close to pools. I am installing a gunite (cement) pool and want to put some Washingtonian Filifera directly behind the spa area. The closest would be about 8 feet from the pool. Would there be any chance of roots damaging the pool?

Here is a pic of the pool.

The closest palm would go where the crepe myrtle is behind the spa deck:

http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee493/loweran/486f15cb.jpg

Here it is with the deck formed behind the spa:

http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee493/loweran/baee3c3d.jpg

Here are the palms:

http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee493/loweran/3ff7f4c6.jpg

... and these will go in around the pool too, but farther away than the Washingtonians:

http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee493/loweran/e81a2198.jpg

http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee493/loweran/c949b5e1.jpg

Thanks!

[quaman58]

Hey, when we had our pool & spa built in 2003, there were (& are) 3 W. robustas very close to the spa. THe closest is about 4 feet away. They actually cut through one side of the root ball to form the spa. Absolutely no issues; should be none for you either.

Bret

[AggiePalms]

I don't see any problem either. Palms with their monocot "thicket of roots" in a rootball just don't have the damaging large branching root systems of dicot trees. And realistically I doubt that most palms have very many roots eight feet from the trunk. I think you are ok; plant those palms!

[LJG]

Well, once they get big enough to seed you will have tons of issues with seed in the pool. Unless you are cutting out the flowers, seed is a nightmare. I have some against the fence on the neighbors side. I have thousands of weeds to clean up and tons of seed in the pool filters.

[DoomsDave]

I have read some old posts here claiming it is OK to plant palms close to pools. I am installing a gunite (cement) pool and want to put some Washingtonian Filifera directly behind the spa area. The closest would be about 8 feet from the pool. Would there be any chance of roots damaging the pool?

Here is a pic of the pool.

The closest palm would go where the crepe myrtle is behind the spa deck:

http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee493/loweran/486f15cb.jpg

Here it is with the deck formed behind the spa:

http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee493/loweran/baee3c3d.jpg

Here are the palms:

http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee493/loweran/3ff7f4c6.jpg

... and these will go in around the pool too, but farther away than the Washingtonians:

http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee493/loweran/e81a2198.jpg

http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee493/loweran/c949b5e1.jpg

Thanks!

First, welcome to our group!

We are glad to be of service if we can.

I agree quaman and aggie.

I also agree with LJG.

Palm roots aren't like those of regular trees, in that they are about the same length from beginning to end. Regular trees, such as Poplars, oaks etc. (dicots) have roots that end in filaments that work their way into nooks and crannies, which by itself isn't so bad. Except for the fact that the roots get bigger and bigger as they mature, and eventually crack things.

That's why palms won't heave sidewalks, or crack walls, or damage pools.

The big exception is when you have a palm in a spot where it's confined, and its root mass gets so huge it cracks its container apart.

You don't have to worry about that, since your palms will be in the open ground, and they're away from your pool in any event.

LJG's problem is real, alas. I've killed two Washies in my yard, and I still get tons of seedlings popping up years later.

When the palms are short, you can cut the seeds off before they mature, but when they get tall, that's tougher and more expensive.

All happy palms produce seeds, but some are more of a nuisance than others. Washies can be a problem, but if you're in a spot where palms are hard to grow and washies are all that will, I think the seed problem is worth it. (I knew a guy in Ohio who had them on his patio who covered them in plastic each winter, and they grew well, till they got too big to cover.)

Where in Texas are you?

In any case, show us what you do, and share pictures with us.

[DoomsDave]

Hmmm.

Took a look at your links to pictures.

Those first palms, with the fat single trunks are Washingonias, all right. They seed a lot.

The clustering shorter types in the second picture appear to be Chamaerops humilis, which don't seed nearly as much, and which don't grow as tall.

Nice pool!

Show us when it's done . . .

[rlowe]

Thanks so much for all the insight. You have calmed my nerves about damage to the pool but have also given me something to think about with the seeds.

A couple follow up questions:

Would be do the Texas Sables have the same issue with seeding?

How can you tell if you getting the Robusta or the Filifera?

---

We are in Austin, Texas.

We have another option/plan that would place the Washintonians along the west side of the yard. That would be nice to help filter the late day sun in the summer.

The other palms are Mediterranean and Canary Island Date. We plan to put the Mediterranean in a bed where the corner of the spa deck meets the pool deck and the CID on the other end of the pool.

I will follow up with pics of how it all turns out.

Edited February 11, 2011 by rlowe

[sonoranfans]

Should be no problem, I had a friend in AZ that put two filiferas within 6' of his pool. Last time I saw them the were over 25' tall with 2 1/2' thick trunks. Your washies look like filifera/robusta hybrids. The reddish brown leaf bases come from the robusta blood and the thick trunks from the filifera blood.

[Kailua_Krish]

Thanks so much for all the insight. You have calmed my nerves about damage to the pool but have also given me something to think about with the seeds.

A couple follow up questions:

Would be do the Texas Sables have the same issue with seeding?

How can you tell if you getting the Robusta or the Filifera?

---

We are in Austin, Texas.

We have another option/plan that would place the Washintonians along the west side of the yard. That would be nice to help filter the late day sun in the summer.

The other palms are Mediterranean and Canary Island Date. We plan to put the Mediterranean in a bed where the corner of the spa deck meets the pool deck and the CID on the other end of the pool.

I will follow up with pics of how it all turns out.

I think Sabals will have the same issue regarding the seeds germinating everywhere. They dont grow as tall as the Washingtonia do so it wont be as difficult to cut them off.

-Krishna

[PalmatierMeg]

We don't have a pool but we do have a robusta that's 30-40' tall. We get lots of high winds and aside from seeds we have dead fronds and boots raining down on the back yard with major gusts. That doesn't bother me too much because we don't have to worry about trimming a long skirt of dead fronds but if I had a pool I'd hate trying to clean that junk out of the water.

[rlowe]

I think we have decided to locate those trees on the west side of the yard. That will allow keep the pool cleaner. I still will have to deal with the 100 yr old Live Oaks that are on the other side of the lot.

I will get pics Saturday after the install.

I would like to put some lower growing palms behind the spa that are less messy if there is such a thing. Any ideas? Windmill, Queen? We are in 8B so need to be cold hardy.

Thanks for all the great information!

[PalmatierMeg]

Queens are exceedlingly messy - I got 7 large ones. They breed up thumb-sized orange fruit on infructescenses that weigh a couple hundred pounds when loaded. Seeds rain down and fruit ferments and draws yellowjackets. And the pointed spathes can spear the ground like javelins. I tolerate mine for the sake of my shade garden.

[Xenon]

I think we have decided to locate those trees on the west side of the yard. That will allow keep the pool cleaner. I still will have to deal with the 100 yr old Live Oaks that are on the other side of the lot.

I will get pics Saturday after the install.

I would like to put some lower growing palms behind the spa that are less messy if there is such a thing. Any ideas? Windmill, Queen? We are in 8B so need to be cold hardy.

Thanks for all the great information!

Chaemerops humillis

Nannorhops ritchianna

Chamaedorea radicallis and micorspadix

Sabal minor

Butia sp.

Rhapis excelsa

Arenga enlergi

Mule Palm is nice too..

Jonathan

[rlowe]

Queens are exceedlingly messy - I got 7 large ones. They breed up thumb-sized orange fruit on infructescenses that weigh a couple hundred pounds when loaded. Seeds rain down and fruit ferments and draws yellowjackets. And the pointed spathes can spear the ground like javelins. I tolerate mine for the sake of my shade garden.

Wow, no Queens behind the spa then

There are some trees that I think are Sabal's around Chuy's on I35 in Round Rock. I really like the look of them and the Pindo's they have there. I will take pics next time I am there and share.

[Kailua_Krish]

Queens are exceedlingly messy - I got 7 large ones. They breed up thumb-sized orange fruit on infructescenses that weigh a couple hundred pounds when loaded. Seeds rain down and fruit ferments and draws yellowjackets. And the pointed spathes can spear the ground like javelins. I tolerate mine for the sake of my shade garden.

Wow, no Queens behind the spa then

There are some trees that I think are Sabal's around Chuy's on I35 in Round Rock. I really like the look of them and the Pindo's they have there. I will take pics next time I am there and share.

A mule should have the nice look of the queen without being as messy since they are mostly sterile.

-Krishna

[BeaumontTropics]

Welcome to Palmtalk!

Congratulations on the new pool, it looks fantastic, the finished product will be awesome!

Like many others have said, I don't think the root problem will affect you much. As far as the messiness goes, the bottom line is no matter what you do, "stuff" will find its way into your pool. Just the nature of the beast. What difference does it make if its palm seeds, spiky balls from liquid ambers, debris from neighboring yards, or insects. No matter what you do, it will be somewhat of a hassle keeping it clean. Not unlike hassling maintenance on a vehicle or anything else for that matter.

I guess my point it, plant what you will enjoy seeing around your pool, regardless of what "mess" it may make. No matter what you do, debris will wind up in your pool, especially if you sustain any kind of winds where you are. Try to get a decent cover for it, and go crazy with the Palm trees! Prost!

Fins,

-eric

[sonoranfans]

I think we have decided to locate those trees on the west side of the yard. That will allow keep the pool cleaner. I still will have to deal with the 100 yr old Live Oaks that are on the other side of the lot.

I will get pics Saturday after the install.

I would like to put some lower growing palms behind the spa that are less messy if there is such a thing. Any ideas? Windmill, Queen? We are in 8B so need to be cold hardy.

Thanks for all the great information!

I dont know how cold it gets there but the chamaerops Humillis(and the blue cerifera version) are safe bets. I might use green and blue. they are very cold hardy, like the washies.

[rlowe]

Welcome to Palmtalk!

I guess my point it, plant what you will enjoy seeing around your pool, regardless of what "mess" it may make. No matter what you do, debris will wind up in your pool, especially if you sustain any kind of winds where you are. Try to get a decent cover for it, and go crazy with the Palm trees! Prost!

Fins,

-eric

I really don't mind cleaning up after the trees. I am out some 1K sqft of lawn all said and done so as far as I see it, the labor is a wash. Actually did not mind tending to the lawn either.

We looked at some of our neighbors Washies and decided they just get to large for that location. We will try and find something that fits the spot. I really am leaning toward a couple of Sabals for that spot.

[war_eagle]

I think a couple of Texas Sabals would make a great backdrop behind the spa/pool. They will stay in scale with the surroundings much better than would the Washys. It wouldn't take long for the Washys to outgrow the spot and leave you just looking at two telephone-pole-like trunks. And don't worry, once you spend a little time on this board and the palm bug really gets a hold of you, you'll find places in the yard to plant all of the other palms mentioned as well.

As for the root issue, I too would not worry at all about them ever causing any damage to the pool.

[mjff]

Well, once they get big enough to seed you will have tons of issues with seed in the pool. Unless you are cutting out the flowers, seed is a nightmare. I have some against the fence on the neighbors side. I have thousands of weeds to clean up and tons of seed in the pool filters.

Hey what a great idea Len, installing a pool to harvest Washingtonia seed for you.

Personally I'd go with the Mule palms with some Sabal minors (or other small palms/cycads) underneath once the Mules got some size, but the Sabal mexicanas should be nice too.

[Xenon]

Sabal uresana, hardy and blue

Jonathan

[rlowe]

Here are the pics:

CID:

Mex:

Med:

[BeaumontTropics]

A phoenix reclinata in my opinion is a fantastic tree to have "drooping" over the pool. When the suckers start shooting out, some pruning would be required to keep it from getting out of control, but it is a very cool tropical look for a plant that's pretty darn hardy! good luck, all looks great so far!

-eric