Attalea heat requirement

[Nigel]

I am trying to find out heat requirement of atalea species, especially dubia.

Is it a palm that does well in lower temps or does it need high summer heat to do well.

Its cousins Butia and Jubaea and Parajubaea dont need high heat , but Syagrus does. Which group would it fall into.

Also any experience on winter damage.

Thanks for any help.

[buffy]

Nigel: Don't have anything for you yet. I had one out this winter, but it hasn't done anything yet with the warmer air. It will be a couple of years before I know anything.

[Kailua_Krish]

Nigel: Don't have anything for you yet. I had one out this winter, but it hasn't done anything yet with the warmer air. It will be a couple of years before I know anything.

I am debating about planting mine, is there any firm info about cold and frost tolerance yet?

Nigel, I thought dubia lived near you? If so shouldnt it do well?

-Krishna

[Nigel]

Nigel: Don't have anything for you yet. I had one out this winter, but it hasn't done anything yet with the warmer air. It will be a couple of years before I know anything.

I am debating about planting mine, is there any firm info about cold and frost tolerance yet?

Nigel, I thought dubia lived near you? If so shouldnt it do well?

-Krishna

krishna, I want to try to understand if its possible to grow in heat challenged north europe.

[Kailua_Krish]

Nigel: Don't have anything for you yet. I had one out this winter, but it hasn't done anything yet with the warmer air. It will be a couple of years before I know anything.

I am debating about planting mine, is there any firm info about cold and frost tolerance yet?

Nigel, I thought dubia lived near you? If so shouldnt it do well?

-Krishna

krishna, I want to try to understand if its possible to grow in heat challenged north europe.

Can any attalea even survive the seasonal lows in Northern Europe? Just curious

-Krishna

[Hilo Jason]

I don't have one of these but I know someone who does (a few actually). It's one of the few of the Attalea that can do well in California. The ones I know of look great and are in full sun. We can get in the 100's here in the summer and the high 20s in the winter. So I'd say Dubia is one that can take the heat and the cold. Now I just need to find one for myself!

[richnorm]

Nigel,

I have Attalea dubia doing well in Auckland though it is a slow palm. I live in a temperate rainforest situation which rarely sees 30c and has lows around 1c.

cheers

Richard

[edbrown_III]

Nigel: Don't have anything for you yet. I had one out this winter, but it hasn't done anything yet with the warmer air. It will be a couple of years before I know anything.

I am debating about planting mine, is there any firm info about cold and frost tolerance yet?

Nigel, I thought dubia lived near you? If so shouldnt it do well?

-Krishna

Theres 2 large ones due east from you about 50 miles or so--- Dent Smiths old garden.

THis is A. cohune and butyracea --- these have seen low 20s in 85 but the bud was at ground level. Significant trunks now 25 years later.

Nigel I would look in Augusto Brauns book about palms in andes --- might be some fotos of Attalayas --- this would let you know of the cool factor.

Jim Cain (per personal corrspondence) had one species growing in Houston. it took some horrendous cold but never got above ground level unless someone can verfiy. --- very hot and very cold.

I will try to find if I s till have Brauns book

Best regards

Ed

[richnorm]

Nigel, I should add that Queens are a fast growing palm here but on the positive side Attalea dubia do grow through winter.

[Nigel]

Nigel, I should add that Queens are a fast growing palm here but on the positive side Attalea dubia do grow through winter.

Ahhhhh thats interesting..... and do queens grow in winter too ? If the queens stop and the attaleas keep going that would be a very good sign.

Thanks for all the other input too, please keep it coming.

Edited March 29, 2011 by Nigel

[richnorm]

Ahhhhh thats interesting..... and do queens grow in winter too ? If the queens stop and the attaleas keep going that would be a very good sign.

Thanks for all the other input too, please keep it coming.

I don't actually have any Queens so can't comment though I imagine they would push all winter as a typical winter day would be say 15c-5c. I should also note that mine previously grew better in winter because I kept it too dry for fear of rotting. Now that I give it summer irrigation and more light it seems to be speeding up a lot. It has grown from 12-18 inches to 5-6 feet in the three to four years it has been in-ground. In terms of other benchmark palms from Southern Brazil etc I note that Acrocomia totai seems to be doing well for me (two winters in-ground) but Allogoptera caudescens really struggles. Also Euterpe edulis is an easy grow in frost free areas.

cheers

Richard

[Nigel]

Ahhhhh thats interesting..... and do queens grow in winter too ? If the queens stop and the attaleas keep going that would be a very good sign.

Thanks for all the other input too, please keep it coming.

I don't actually have any Queens so can't comment though I imagine they would push all winter as a typical winter day would be say 15c-5c. I should also note that mine previously grew better in winter because I kept it too dry for fear of rotting. Now that I give it summer irrigation and more light it seems to be speeding up a lot. It has grown from 12-18 inches to 5-6 feet in the three to four years it has been in-ground. In terms of other benchmark palms from Southern Brazil etc I note that Acrocomia totai seems to be doing well for me (two winters in-ground) but Allogoptera caudescens really struggles. Also Euterpe edulis is an easy grow in frost free areas.

cheers

Richard

Richard if its growing in temps that stay between 5 and 15C it cant have a high heat requirement.... thats very good news.

[amazondk]

Nigel,

I have a few Attlalea species growing here, A. maripa, A. speciosa, and A. phalerata. But, I do not have any cold to worry about either. I do not know how well they handle cooler temperatures. I do like Attaleas a lot though. The A. phalerata is not native to my part of Amazonia, but the other two are. In fact the palm on the bottom part of the my avatar is an older A. maripa that is on my country place. Even though a good sized chunk of the trunk was burned years ago the tree still seems to be quite healthy.

dk

[realarch]

Hi Ya Don! How's that bridge coming along? Do you have a photo of your A. phalerata? This is a clumping variety and was curious to see what it looked like as a smaller palm.

[amazondk]

Hi Tim,

The bridge is only for June or July now. The government got about 60 million USD behind in payments to the builder and they stopped construction. Now that the money is coming again it should get done. They also did not put the lighting and the floating protectors around the columns in the budget. So, the cost of the bridge originally at 565 million reais, about 350 million USD, is now at 1 billion reais, or about 700 million USD. But, it will get finished.

As to the A. phalerata that I have seen are single trunks. And, are very big trees, bigger than A. maripa. I do not have any píctures on the computer I am using. I will post one when I get it.

dk

[DoomsDave]

As a group, I've found attaleas to like more heat than they get here in California.

I have a number and all are slow, though I don't have dubia.

[richnorm]

Richard if its growing in temps that stay between 5 and 15C it cant have a high heat requirement.... thats very good news.

Nigel, I will mark the spear and report back in Spring.

cheers

Richard

[Nigel]

Don, Dave I would expect the more tropical attaleas to be demanding of heat ,I am hoping dubia is not.

Rich thanks very much I will await your findings !!

[amazondk]

This topic made me remember some pictures I posted a long time ago on a trip I took to eastern Bolivia. Here is an A. phalerata used as a street tree in Riberalta, Bolivia.

And, here are some growing by the riverside near town. The ones I have are from seeds collected on this trip.

[realarch]

Wow! Thanks Don. I have a chance to pick one of these up, but wasn't sure if I wanted it by looking at the photo in Riffle's book. It shows a clumping palm labeled as A. phalerata which is obviously incorrect. The

text description sounds accurate though. My yard is slowly becoming smaller and smaller.

[amazondk]

Tim,

They are an impressive tree. I personally think that they are the most impressive Attaleas that I know. Here is a little one I planted recently from one of the seeds I got in Bolivia. This palm is found in the central west part of Amazonas south of the Amazon River. I think this may be the most northern range for the palm. Here it is known as the Acuri palm.

[basilios]

Hey Don, how old is that seedling?

[amazondk]

I collected the seed in September of 2007. It took a few months to germinate. So, I would say it is about 3 years old. It should start to take off now that it is in the ground. I have another one from the same time that is much more developed and it has been in the ground for over a year. This one was planted about 2 months ago.

dk

[dalmatiansoap]

Great looking palms, wow.

Now U ll make me search for one

[Nigel]

I must take some pics of Attalea dubia here. It really is a quite magnificent palm, and when they have green algae growing on the trunks as they often do they are quite a thing of outstanding beauty.

[amazondk]

Those would be great to see Nigel.

dk

[kelen]

I have some Attaleas: dubia, phalerata, geraensis, butyracea, apoda, tessmanii, speciosa, compta, salvadorensis. Until now, just tessmanii is not good to my climate. Attalea phalerata is the fastest growth.

I think Attalea dubia and A. phalerata are the most cold hardy.

[amazondk]

That is interesting Kelen since it gets pretty cold down there.

dk

[richnorm]

Kelen, I would be grateful if you would describe your climate. I see possibilities! A typical day in our coldest month (July) would be 15c high 5c low.

cheers

Richard

[peachy]

Curses on you all !! Now I want one of them too.

Peachy

[Rafael]

I am with you Peachy, we ve got a new problem...

[kelen]

Kelen, I would be grateful if you would describe your climate. I see possibilities! A typical day in our coldest month (July) would be 15c high 5c low.

cheers

Richard

Well, this winter is very very cold, this week the temperature is between -2ºC to 10ºC. I'm worry with my palms.

[Jonathan]

Kelen, I would be grateful if you would describe your climate. I see possibilities! A typical day in our coldest month (July) would be 15c high 5c low.

cheers

Richard

Well, this winter is very very cold, this week the temperature is between -2ºC to 10ºC. I'm worry with my palms.

Richard,

Those temps are more like Hobart or Christchurch than Auckland - if Kelens palms survive, you'd have no worries!

Cheers,

Jonathan

[richnorm]

Richard if its growing in temps that stay between 5 and 15C it cant have a high heat requirement.... thats very good news.

Nigel, I will mark the spear and report back in Spring.

cheers

Richard

Here you go Nigel, hope it helps and makes sense, unfortunately it didn't come out as it was typed in. We had some of the coldest ever weather recorded this winter but the attalea was unmarked.

Temperatures in C

Growth(mm) Ave High Ave Low Ave Rain(mm)

April 220 21.4 13.1 16.9 92

May 260 19.2 11.4 15.3 131

June 120 16.4 10 13.2 137

July 100 15.1 8.3 11.4 130

August 70 15.5 6.7 11 60

September 90 16.6 6.9 11.9 82

October 160 19.4 11.4 14.8 86