Brahea sp. super silver

[353]

What do you think? She's a Brahea super silver. (And not doing so well. Seems to be in shock, yet I haven't even touched her.) Roots are sticking out all over the bottom and it CANNOT stand without leaning on something.

Edited June 11, 2011 by 353

[quaman58]

It's ready for potting up; roots are looking for more water/ nutients to support it's impending growth. Generally though, it would not affect it's overall health. Sounds like you might have another issue going on.

Bret

[353]

Wow, my Brahea sp. Super Silver has been going downhill in the past 48 hours! Even if it IS ready to be re-potted, I'm wondering if I actually should do such a thing if it's in a weakened state. It doesn't look like it's dying, it looks like it's in shock, and I didn't even transplant it! What would cause shock?

Here are a few more pictures of the super silver:

ADDENDUM: Also, I was researching online on how to treat shock in plants. Check this out: http://www.helium.com/items/1288129-how-to-treat-houseplants-with-transplant-shock

Basically, they're saying you can dissolve 1.5 81mg pills of aspirin in 2 gallons of water. Has anyone ever tried this? If so, what have the results been?

Edited June 11, 2011 by 353

[pindo]

Hi Neal

You moved the roots and that damaged your palm. Don't worry

Cut the container with Scissors for transplanting to soil or larger container. Place in the shade or protected with shade cloth.

aspirin is ok

good luck

[353]

UPDATE: This super silver plant is a goner. Apparently, I had it in way too much sunlight. It is dried up and brown. RIP. This saddens me because it is not my intent to KILL the palms, but to give them a loving home and yard they can thrive in for years and years to come.

My Livistona nitida is also completely shriveled up and dead. I think that manure i put it in initially burned the roots. Poor thing.

Out of the four palms I bought on Memorial Day, two are dead. The other two are thriving. They are in direct sun all day long. They are the Brazoria Palm (Sabal x texensis), and the Brahea armata. The Brahea armata was actually GIVEN to me because they said it wasn't doing so well, but now it's one of my survivors! lol It was in a greenhouse at the nursery but is now in direct sun for about 5-6 hours a day. The Brazoria Palm is just as happy as can be in a big ol' 15 gallon pot. When it comes time, that'll never get transplanted. It'll go straight into the ground.

I will be heading back to the nursery where I got them most likely this Saturday to try again on the plants I didn't do so well on. Until then I'll be researching everything I can about Brahea super silver and Livistona nitida.

[MattyB]

You didn't do anything wrong. Those plants were dying when you bought them. Look how weak they are. A brahea should not look like that if grown healthily.

Found Morabeza's flicker pics of your exact species while browsing around on Google.

morabeza's flicker pics

And a brahea armata seedling pic. Notice the nice compact, healthy looking growth. Your leaves are so stretched out that plant has been starving to death for light for a long time.

[Stevetoad]

You didn't do anything wrong. Those plants were dying when you bought them. Look how weak they are. A brahea should not look like that if grown healthily.

hey matt, i finally have to ask...what are you drinking in your avatar??? i've been wondering since ive joined...

[MattyB]

That's my famous El Pollo Loco sippy cup face. Often imitated, never duplicated. El Pollo Loco is often the lunch time destination of the PRA Team and somehow someone snaps a shot of me enjoying my ice cold coke.

[Stevetoad]

That's my famous El Pollo Loco sippy cup face. Often imitated, never duplicated. El Pollo Loco is often the lunch time destination of the PRA Team and somehow someone snaps a shot of me enjoying my ice cold coke.

Wow. Your really making that soda last! Shirt faded from yellow to green and you grew a beard....must be a 24 hour el pollo loco

[tank]

UPDATE: This super silver plant is a goner. Apparently, I had it in way too much sunlight. It is dried up and brown. RIP. This saddens me because it is not my intent to KILL the palms, but to give them a loving home and yard they can thrive in for years and years to come.

My Livistona nitida is also completely shriveled up and dead. I think that manure i put it in initially burned the roots. Poor thing.

Out of the four palms I bought on Memorial Day, two are dead. The other two are thriving. They are in direct sun all day long. They are the Brazoria Palm (Sabal x texensis), and the Brahea armata. The Brahea armata was actually GIVEN to me because they said it wasn't doing so well, but now it's one of my survivors! lol It was in a greenhouse at the nursery but is now in direct sun for about 5-6 hours a day. The Brazoria Palm is just as happy as can be in a big ol' 15 gallon pot. When it comes time, that'll never get transplanted. It'll go straight into the ground.

I will be heading back to the nursery where I got them most likely this Saturday to try again on the plants I didn't do so well on. Until then I'll be researching everything I can about Brahea super silver and Livistona nitida.

I wouldn't worry too much about the silver, at least in my experience, it would not last in your zone. I've struck out three times with these. They were growing like champs right up until the first mid to low 20s freeze, and then they died. I'm trying one more under little canopy and hopefully I will get this one past the juvenile stage. Might survive in a dryer climate, but they do not like my zone 9/8 winters.

[353]

ROFL @ Stevetoad... I've been curious about the same thing too! lol "Shirt faded from yellow to green and you grew a beard....must be a 24 hour el pollo loco" Haah! Good one!

@ tank: I've been offered two replacements by the nursery I got this from. They have ALLLL kinds of palms. I'm in 8B, so what would be some good recommendations? Yes, it is way humid here in Houston, so if it's gonna impede the growth of my palms, what's a good humid growing palm?

[MattyB]

I've heard that Brahea clara takes the humidity better.

[Kailua_Krish]

I've heard that Brahea clara takes the humidity better.

I can confirm this, all my armata seedlings died quickly once the summer rains started while Brahea clara were perfectly happy and kept on growing.

If you are looking for a Brahea, what I think is elegans has done quite well for me. I would get another Livistona too!

-Krishna

Edited June 17, 2011 by krishnaraoji88

[353]

Are the Brahea claras and B. elegans blue or silver in color? I'd love to have at least one with a silvery blue hue to it's foliage. I'm iffy about Bizzies, though. I heard they don't have a real good tolerance for the extreme cold, and last winter here in Houston was bone chilling! It stayed below freezing for 5 days or so at one point!

[Kailua_Krish]

The B. claras can be very blue, but there is quite a bit of color variation. Some of my seedlings are ice blue while others are olive green. They show their color from very young so it should be easy to pick out the ones you want.

The one that I think I got as a B. elegans has a very pretty dark green color and nicely divided fronds. Of course like I said, Im not sure it is an elegans as this isnt even considered a valid species.

-Krishna

[Collectorpalms]

Brahea Clara and Sabal Uresana will both grow in Houston, but any greenhouse grown plants have to be acclimated at least one season in the real world. Also do not use fertilizers on new plants until they are established. By the way, if they just dried out they are not dead, they will come back, however if you put a heavy fertilizer on them it will kill the roots and more likely to be dead.

Ryan

Edited June 18, 2011 by Collectorpalms

[353]

Brahea Clara and Sabal Uresana will both grow in Houston, but any greenhouse grown plants have to be acclimated at least one season in the real world. Also do not use fertilizers on new plants until they are established. By the way, if they just dried out they are not dead, they will come back, however if you put a heavy fertilizer on them it will kill the roots and more likely to be dead.

Ryan

@Ryan: REALLY? You mean as pitiful as my poor thought-to-be-dead Livistona looks, it's is actually alive? All the fronds are completely crisp but I felt the middle and it's soft and green. I would be elated if it had a chance! I'm afraid the super silver is toast though. It's completely brown and way overgrown for it's pot with roots reaching out from the holes in the bottom, wrapped around all the way to the top of the pot and reaching out above ground.

@Krishna: I'm gonna see if they have a Brahea clara. Most of his Braheas are in the greenhouse, but that super silver was growing outside. Perhaps it got too much sun.

[Tejastropicals]

This is a good example of not sharing enough info with a newcomer and assuming too much. Neal bought these palms at my nursery and because he seemed to know exactly what he wanted I assumed he had some experience growing palms and didnt share enough cultural info with him. He heard that Brahea and Livistona can be easily overwatered so took that to mean watering every 3-4 days. What that doesnt take into account is the specific circumstances of seedlings in peat and perlite in 3.5x5" and 4x9" containers, root bound and needing to be potted up, and a June with 100+ deg days. All it took is 3-4 days without water for some nice looking, and yes healthy palms to shrivel up. The Livistona was then potted into a "in ground mix" with manure in it which probably burned the roots.

Anyway, I consider this to be my fault in not being more specific about how to treat them. I dont like to tell people what they already know but I should have questioned Neal more about his experience. I hope he doesnt mind me sharing this but I think its instructive from several standpoints. Pictures of a plants demise dont always show us what we need to know to be instructive. Cultural info always has to be in context and for newcomers to be successful there is no such thing as too much information. He's a good guy who deserved more from me to be successful and I hope we have all helped him a bit since.

[kahili]

That is nice that you came on this thread and clarified some things-hopefully as much for Neal as for us. I thought it began with a watering issue-it almost always does, and then the soil situation and then the manure (fert)issue, which I don't remember reading about. Maybe you could write up a simple care sheet covering watering,what mediums to use when repotting, and when to repot and about ferts and just hand it to everyone that is a first time buyer (or include in the box when shipping) whether they ask for it or not. I totally understand about when to start with the growing/planting advice or not. Some people get offended because they know, or they think they know (and they don't)etc.

[DoomsDave]

353!

Go light on the fert!

Don't hurry into using plant food. I know you want to do all you can for your plants, I do, too, and I have to keep my inner Jewish Mother of Doom at bay constantly.

If you must use some, use a wee little bit of something liquid like Miracle Gro.

Palms don't need that much fertilizer.

I don't use any in my garden.

Keep trying! Hate to hear of someone losing. Palms can rock in Huge-town, as you already know.

If you have any immediate questions, shoot me a PM.

best

dave

[DoomsDave]

This is a good example of not sharing enough info with a newcomer and assuming too much. Neal bought these palms at my nursery and because he seemed to know exactly what he wanted I assumed he had some experience growing palms and didnt share enough cultural info with him. He heard that Brahea and Livistona can be easily overwatered so took that to mean watering every 3-4 days. What that doesnt take into account is the specific circumstances of seedlings in peat and perlite in 3.5x5" and 4x9" containers, root bound and needing to be potted up, and a June with 100+ deg days. All it took is 3-4 days without water for some nice looking, and yes healthy palms to shrivel up. The Livistona was then potted into a "in ground mix" with manure in it which probably burned the roots.

Anyway, I consider this to be my fault in not being more specific about how to treat them. I dont like to tell people what they already know but I should have questioned Neal more about his experience. I hope he doesnt mind me sharing this but I think its instructive from several standpoints. Pictures of a plants demise dont always show us what we need to know to be instructive. Cultural info always has to be in context and for newcomers to be successful there is no such thing as too much information. He's a good guy who deserved more from me to be successful and I hope we have all helped him a bit since.

You have helped and inspired all of us by setting an excellent example!

I've sold plants in my time, and I know how it is.

[MattyB]

I apologize for throwing you under the bus david. I made an assumption without knowing all the facts. I've received plants from tejastropicals and they were very healthy. Again, sorry about that.

[353]

This is a good example of not sharing enough info with a newcomer and assuming too much. Neal bought these palms at my nursery and because he seemed to know exactly what he wanted I assumed he had some experience growing palms and didnt share enough cultural info with him. He heard that Brahea and Livistona can be easily overwatered so took that to mean watering every 3-4 days. What that doesnt take into account is the specific circumstances of seedlings in peat and perlite in 3.5x5" and 4x9" containers, root bound and needing to be potted up, and a June with 100+ deg days. All it took is 3-4 days without water for some nice looking, and yes healthy palms to shrivel up. The Livistona was then potted into a "in ground mix" with manure in it which probably burned the roots.

Anyway, I consider this to be my fault in not being more specific about how to treat them. I dont like to tell people what they already know but I should have questioned Neal more about his experience. I hope he doesnt mind me sharing this but I think its instructive from several standpoints. Pictures of a plants demise dont always show us what we need to know to be instructive. Cultural info always has to be in context and for newcomers to be successful there is no such thing as too much information. He's a good guy who deserved more from me to be successful and I hope we have all helped him a bit since.

I know David blames himself a lot for this, but I sure don't. I'm just very taken back by how nice he's been to allow me to have an actual replacement of the palms I failed to keep alive. Not only that, but he potted them FOR me in front of my eyes and taught me what his soil mixture was and how much fertilizer to add. David at Tejas Tropicals dearly values all forms of life and is a genuine person. I don't know how many other people would go out of their way like he did for me. I felt that the death of the super silver was mostly my fault because I heeded the warnings of "not to overwater." "Overwatering is the number one cause of death in palms." "Don't overwater." So, I way underwatered and it killed my super silver. My Livistona died from using a non-potting manure mix (a Miracle-Death product) at the recommendation of the wonderful and wise from the Home Depot, but the other two I got from him are doing just fine: one Brahea armata seedling and one 4' tall Sabal x texensis, which are both absolutely thriving. David's facility at Tejas Tropicals is a BEAUTIFUL palm plant wonderland filled with all KINDS of palm species. He's mainly an online seller but was nice enough to allow me to see his "palm wonderland" nestled under the canopy of many a tall Texas pine trees. I was definitely impressed at how organized he has everything. I would just LOVE to do what he does (given I have the knowledge of how to care for them too! ;-) )

Matty, don't beat yourself up too much over it. I never revealed where I got my palms before because I didn't want to put his name out there without his permission first. But yes, everything he has out there is very very healthy. I'll post some pictures of my replacement acquisitions soon. The two replacements are: one Livistona nitida, and one Brahea sp. super silver.

[MattyB]

that's awesome, david is a super nice guy and obviously takes care of his customers.

[Jastin]

That's my famous El Pollo Loco sippy cup face. Often imitated, never duplicated. El Pollo Loco is often the lunch time destination of the PRA Team ™ and somehow someone snaps a shot of me enjoying my ice cold coke.

<><

[sonoranfans]

This is a good example of not sharing enough info with a newcomer and assuming too much. Neal bought these palms at my nursery and because he seemed to know exactly what he wanted I assumed he had some experience growing palms and didnt share enough cultural info with him. He heard that Brahea and Livistona can be easily overwatered so took that to mean watering every 3-4 days. What that doesnt take into account is the specific circumstances of seedlings in peat and perlite in 3.5x5" and 4x9" containers, root bound and needing to be potted up, and a June with 100+ deg days. All it took is 3-4 days without water for some nice looking, and yes healthy palms to shrivel up. The Livistona was then potted into a "in ground mix" with manure in it which probably burned the roots.

Anyway, I consider this to be my fault in not being more specific about how to treat them. I dont like to tell people what they already know but I should have questioned Neal more about his experience. I hope he doesnt mind me sharing this but I think its instructive from several standpoints. Pictures of a plants demise dont always show us what we need to know to be instructive. Cultural info always has to be in context and for newcomers to be successful there is no such thing as too much information. He's a good guy who deserved more from me to be successful and I hope we have all helped him a bit since.

I have received several palms from david through mail order this past december including claras, uresana, sabal domingensis and brahea dulcis. They were all in very good shape and both the clara and uresana are quite good in the humidity, the dulcis less so as it gets some leaf spot. I also have a larger super silver, which has struggled and is not a good palm for here. It sits right next to the claras and gets fungal leaf spot. I planted mine in cactus palm mix with extra perlite at the bottom to assist in drainage. I put more perlite in the bottom and a little less in the more shallow depths to prevent too much moisture retention. I also water mine every 3 days and they see 6+ hrs of sunlight. I would NEVER put manure in a potted palm in my climate, especially one that doesnt like continually wet feet like a brahea. Manure just retains moisture and can burn. Any soil that retains moisture will be more likely to burn as the nitrates can concentrate if drainage is poor. Manure not only retains moisture, but it also supplies the nitrate and holds it near the root. I use time release florikan palm special fertilizer, it doesnt burn because it has an osmotically controlled(not solubility controlled) release mechanism. Here is my Brahea clara from David, just repotted from a 3 gallon to a 5.5 gallon a month ago.

Edited June 19, 2011 by sonoranfans

[sonoranfans]

And here is my uresana, in the ground as of 3 weeks ago, also from David. this one is even more moisture tolerant than the clara. Both had some overhead watering every 2 days from the sprinkler and the uresana showed no sign at all of mold spot, the clara just a little as can bee seen on the oldest leaflet in the previous photo.

Edited June 19, 2011 by sonoranfans

[Tejastropicals]

I really appreciate all the feedback. I wasnt trying to slam anyone. What the thread raised for me is how many times I thought or posted advice about an issue but didnt really ask all the questions I needed to to be accurate. Also, asking more questions instructs the newcomer intuitively. There are so many variables for success. One of Neals concerns was how many different opinions there are on any given topic. Sometimes its helpful if we can explain why we do things in a particular way. As an example for pot culture the variables include potting media- depending on the region and the available resources it can include pine bark, sand, lava, coconoir, peat, perlite, vermiculite,etc. The combinations we use of these effects drainage but all are intended to be well draining its just the degree of drainage. How often you water depends on media, temperature, humidity, light exposure, how you apply water, etc. What kind of fertilizer to use and how much? Container shapes? The point being that it made me realize the more questions we ask the better for the questioners success and that I didnt do a very good job of that at the point of purchase. I really appreciate all the help you all collectively provide. I learn something new every time I get on the site. Thank you.

[353]

@Sonoranfans: Oh, WOW! Those are absolutely precious! The pictures of your palms are a perfect example of why I love them so much. The fronds are all spread out as if to eternally wave to us, letting us know that everything's just fine when you're among the palm trees! I'm very excited to see mine grow that way some day because I know you and I got 'em at one of the best places around that a palm can get a good start at life: Tejas Tropicals!

[sonoranfans]

@Sonoranfans: Oh, WOW! Those are absolutely precious! The pictures of your palms are a perfect example of why I love them so much. The fronds are all spread out as if to eternally wave to us, letting us know that everything's just fine when you're among the palm trees! I'm very excited to see mine grow that way some day because I know you and I got 'em at one of the best places around that a palm can get a good start at life: Tejas Tropicals!

Neal,

Just remember that what you do in terms of care will be very important. Your soil, culture, fertilization, sunlight will alll be important. There are lots of quality growers out there, and in my experience David has some very nice stock, but you will determine how your palms do after the first week. He was nice to replace them for you, now you need to do your part. One thing I have done to help with the water cycle is I cut a round hole 3/4" in the side of the pot bottom(1" up) and I can touch it to see how wet it is. This helps if it rains or if you just dont know how fast your soil drains. I also get used to the heft of the pot when I tip it, if its light, I water. If you have a light soil, a fish emulsion can be a good fertilizer to add periodically in addition to some potting fertilizer. I find braheas are quite different, I tend to put them in an area of my yard where the sun shines and where the over head water from sprinklers is minimal. When I bought mine it was winter so watering wasnt as difficult with a slow dry cycle and not much heat to dry the palm out. Trying to take care of a small palm in summer is more difficult, I would start out with much less sun and gradually increase it.

[tank]

ROFL @ Stevetoad... I've been curious about the same thing too! lol "Shirt faded from yellow to green and you grew a beard....must be a 24 hour el pollo loco" Haah! Good one!

@ tank: I've been offered two replacements by the nursery I got this from. They have ALLLL kinds of palms. I'm in 8B, so what would be some good recommendations? Yes, it is way humid here in Houston, so if it's gonna impede the growth of my palms, what's a good humid growing palm?

If you're talking about silver fan palms, you're probably going to have to stick to S. uresana or B. clara, although S. uresana seem to universally lose their blue color as they get older. Nannorhops, Serenoa repens and Chamaerops are options as well. I think you can be successful with B. armata, you'll just have to try in find a perfect spot. The problem with these is that they tend to grow at a slow to glacial pace (Serenoa and Chamaerops can definitely be encouraged to grow faster with lots of water/fert).

B. "super silver" has been a difficult plant for me here in Gainesville. During the summer, it has grown very well for me, even in our humidity, but so far none have been able to make it through our winter. My only thought is that maybe they get significantly more hardy as the get larger, but who knows. So far their hardiness has be greatly exaggerated. I'm guessing Houston and Gainesville have very similar climates.

My main recommendation would be to grow what you know will do well and limit the experiments.

[Takil-Explorer]

I have 4 Brahea Super Silver here, grown from seeds I have collected in Publo State above Zapotitlan de Salinas, southwest of Tehucan. There are to species of Braheas there.

Well those Braheas got one time a light nightfrost in autumn wich caused spearpull.

Not hardy I would say!

Alexander

[Tejastropicals]

I believe that the B. sp.'Super Silver' are found in the mountains of Zacatecas and San Luis Potosi in Central Mexico rather than Puebla in Southern Mexico. This is why it is believed they will adapt to cold and wet of SE USA. Anyone one else have locality info? I have several 100 small seedlings going palmate that handled 26-28f fine. I havent tried them below that until they are larger. I would be interested in hearing more anecdotal evidence of hardiness.

[sonoranfans]

I believe that the B. sp.'Super Silver' are found in the mountains of Zacatecas and San Luis Potosi in Central Mexico rather than Puebla in Southern Mexico. This is why it is believed they will adapt to cold and wet of SE USA. Anyone one else have locality info? I have several 100 small seedlings going palmate that handled 26-28f fine. I havent tried them below that until they are larger. I would be interested in hearing more anecdotal evidence of hardiness.

My super silver that I brought to florida when I moved from AZ was fine with 28F, 30F and heavy frost on two consecutive nights this past december. Its real issue is with the humidity/rain in our hot/wet summer it tends to get fungal spotting and is not happy here. I had it in the ground in pretty much pure grey sand with teriffic drainage and had to dig it up and put it under the porch last summer when all fronds got fungus and daconil applications didnt seem to matter. This one was, like Brahea armata, MUCH happier in the desert.

[Takil-Explorer]

Well this Brahea I found above Zapotitlan de Salinas was growing in a semi dessert habitad with Dasylerion, cacti and Agave stricta for example at a higher altitude. It has no thorns on the stalks and is very silvery, similair to a B. armata. It forms a single trunk several meters high. Well what I have seen on pictures on the internet and the discription seem to indicate that it can be only super silver. Welll if I look at the rarepalmseeds.com pictures and discription plus pictures it matches my palm. I have seen them also

If there are other silvery Braheas with no thornes on the stalks I would like to know. And the young plants do lack the silver color . The leaves of all 4 plants are stiull green. But maybe the lower lightlevels here at 52 degrees north are to blame also. They stay outside from spring till autumn in full sun.

I have seen the same Brahea from the road between Oaxaca an Tehucan. You get acrosse a dessert area with lots of cacti, there I saw them for the first time. Stunning almost blue! Its strange that this palm is still not more known as it can be seen from a buzzy road!

Alexander

[Takil-Explorer]

Brahea clara and B. armata better hardiness must have to do with the fact that the grow much farther north in Mexico. Now and the a coldsnap there and some rain in winter also. The area I visited.

Maybe Brahea Super Silver is found in several areas. One is San Louis Potosi, the other one I have visited.

Alexander

[Takil-Explorer]

The Morabeza Flicker pics show a green Brahea. The same as my 4 B. Super Silver.

B. clara and B. armata juvenils are allready showing glaucus leaves like adult ones.

Alexander

[Al in Kona]

Brahea 'Super Silver' - from a very small seedling growing in a 15cm (6") pot, I planted it directly into the ground in a full sum location here in south Kona. It has perfect draining soil, only given supplemental water a few times during an extended dry spell and now after 3-years is basically on its own. While we can get dry periods (mostly during Winter/Spring) our humidity never really drops very low and we can get extended periods with lots of afternoon/evening showers, resulting in high humidity. It has never been fertilized, only weeded and mulched. Here's what it looked like a few months after being planted in Sep. 2008. The 2nd pic was taken this morning (July 1, 2011). It now stands about 70cm (28") tall and equally as wide. Even at this small size it does show a definite green-gray upper leaf and a very silvery underside to the leaf (3rd pic). That's been my experience in growing this palm.

[MattyB]

That's awesome Al! That's the biggest one I've ever seen. I was wondering if mine would ever turn silver.

[Takil-Explorer]

Mine are also still green. They are 8 years old now, but slow growing. Well in our sort chilly summers unfortunately. They are a bit smaller then the one on the central picture on Hawaii. In the wild they grow on limestone. And very silvery. But there the light has a very high uv level! Well San Diego should be a good area to grow them!

Alexander