Coconut issues

[Bae72]

Hi, I've just been out to the greenhouse to potter about. There's a bit of sun about, so nice and warm in the greenhouse. I did notice that of the 5 potted coconut palms that I've had in the greenhouse, two dwarves and 3 normals, the dwarves have rust spots on them. I bought these palms via the internet and have had them in pots since october or so last year. The normal cocos have been sourced from Cairns, one is about 2.5 years in the pot and looks OK, another I've had since September last year and is the same size as the 2.5 year old one and the final normal has only been in a pot since December and hasn't 'split' the leaves yet and has lots of white spots. I think maybe it didn't get enough growth in before the cool weather. The greenhouse is heated so it doesn't drop below 15C except on the coldest nights, and then probably about 12C. On gloomy days it doesn't get much above 20C, but as I said when the sun appears, it heats up nicely.

I was wondering if Dwarf coconuts are 'weaker' than normals? I had 3 dwarves last year and all died, but one of the normals pulled through under the same conditions. I've attached photos from today, and one from a while back before the cooler weather. Let me know what you think and anything that you can see is wrong or needs attention (apart from the obvious of growing cocos in a cold area).

Thanks.

1. Dwarf with rust patches.

2. Another Dwarf with rust spots.

3. Healthy 2.5 year old normal palm, with Dwarf from 2 in background.

4. Healthy normal coco potted last September.

Edited June 12, 2011 by Bae72

[Bae72]

More pics:

5. White spots on normal coco potted last December.

6. Photo from a while ago. Palm 5 in foreground, then Palm 1, and Palm 4 in background. Palm 2 at extreme front right.

[bubba]

Brian, I did not realize that Melbourne was 37 Degrees plus latitude. You may be the "player", incorporating Tyrone's dynamics, that stretches the limits of Cocos nucifera. Melbourne v. Azores!

[Tyrone]

Hi Brian,

The first pic looks at first like some rasping insect has rasped away the top layer ie thrip, but knowing it's a coconut I'd say it's an area of cold damage, where those particular cells in the leaf have collapsed from cold.

The second pic is a bacterial leaf spot formed due to the cold. You can see it has round rings. It may have had condensation on the leaves when it got cold in their and the bacteria has taken advantage of the situation. A bit of copper oxychloride applied according to the instructions can help keep bacterial probs under control, but it won't change the area already spotting up.

Number 5 also looks like some form of cold burn ( the leaf surface facing straight up has the symptoms) or it's an early form of sunburn. It may get that brown colouring as time goes buy.

Come warmer weather they grow out of all this.

Not much you can do about it all unfortunately.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Miccles]

Good luck Brian - wishing you all the luck in the world ! (But please don't be too disappointed if they hang on till August, then finally give out due to so many overcast 14C days...). In my humble opinion Newcastle( and therefore Perth) is the furthest south in Australia where a coconut can be grown (and even then it has to be nursed along).

Make no mistake - if you get them into Summer, no-one would be more thrilled than me ! I don't want to come across as a "negative Nellie".

Best of luck.

Michael.

[Tyrone]

There's one growing in London. Bit hard to beat that one.

[Bae72]

Thanks guys. I just sprayed the palms with a fungicide. It contained cupric hydroxide. I hope the cure isn't worse than the disease. I'd hate to think I've hurt the two normal palms that seem fine at the moment. It still seems to me that dwarf cocos are more sensitive than normals.

I have a question about watering. In summer I water the palms everyday, except when it's warm and humid and I put them outside to get a bit of rain. They love this. In winter, I pretty much water them once a week if it's been sunny. For example, there is some sun about today (and yesterday) and the temperature inside the greenhouse is 25C (that is when it's overcast, so not because the thermometer is in the sunlight) and humid. The soil of both dwarves is 20C or perhaps 21C. I measured that with a propagating thermometer. Seems to me that it's warm enough to warrant some watering now and then. Should I stop watering them until spring, or keep watering them sporadically when we've had sunny days?

Is the London coconut growing outside?

Thanks,

Brian.

Edited June 13, 2011 by Bae72

[Tyrone]

Thanks guys. I just sprayed the palms with a fungicide. It contained cupric hydroxide. I hope the cure isn't worse than the disease. I'd hate to think I've hurt the two normal palms that seem fine at the moment. It still seems to me that dwarf cocos are more sensitive than normals.

I have a question about watering. In summer I water the palms everyday, except when it's warm and humid and I put them outside to get a bit of rain. They love this. In winter, I pretty much water them once a week if it's been sunny. For example, there is some sun about today (and yesterday) and the temperature inside the greenhouse is 25C (that is when it's overcast, so not because the thermometer is in the sunlight) and humid. The soil of both dwarves is 20C or perhaps 21C. I measured that with a propagating thermometer. Seems to me that it's warm enough to warrant some watering now and then. Should I stop watering them until spring, or keep watering them sporadically when we've had sunny days?

Is the London coconut growing outside?

Thanks,

Brian.

That is a very hard question to answer. The difference between life and death is very small either way. You sort of need to get the coconut to drink while it's warm but by the time the sun goes down you want the soil to be sort of drier. In a pot it's quite critical to get it right, whereas in the ground it can go looking for moisture if it needs it. My coconut hasn't been watered in 3 weeks except for some rain that would have got through and it's still growing 1cm of spear a night. It's finding its own water. I won't water it until Oct now. Maybe it's worth getting one of those moisture gauges from Bunnings. That way you know if it is actually dry below the surface.

The London coconut is in the Kew gardens Tropical House.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Bae72]

I went to check on the patients this morning. The ones with rust seem more or less the same. I took Tyrone's advice and got out the moisture meter.

The two normal cocos with split leaves and no rust were both very dry. I am a bit worried about the oldest one as it seems to have developed an orangy tinge in the last few days. I watered both, not too much, afterwards. I'll check again with the meter this evening. I don't want my longest lasting coconut which I plan to plant this spring getting sick on me!

It's sunny today, so green house will warm up nicely. The two dwarves and smallish normal all had a good reading with the moisture meter, so I didn't give them a drink.

Edited June 15, 2011 by Bae72

[Tyrone]

Where are you going to plant it in spring? Are you going to cover it in winter in it's own tent?

Best regards

Tyrone

[Bae72]

Where are you going to plant it in spring? Are you going to cover it in winter in it's own tent?

Best regards

Tyrone

I live on a small block in a new housing estate. The fences are all 2m high, so not many places where they can get good morning and afternoon sun, especially in winter. I had thought of planting it on the nature strip, which is north facing and gets no obstruction to sunlight, but then I read the council regs on planting trees in nature strips.... Long story short, I'll plant it in the front yard, near to the house, but with pretty much unobstructed sunlight so it will get the best chance to warm up in winter.

I'll dig a pit, fill it with sand and plant it slightly raised in relation to the rest of the garden. I'll cover it with plastic and stones as you suggested. That should see it go fine from October to end of March. For colder months, I'm going to make a frame out of DAR ( pine 45mm x 19mm x 900mm ) and line the inside of the frame with clear plastic and likewise the outside. That way, the sun can warm up the plant, but the dual layered plastic frame ( tent ) will hopefully insulate the plant and slow down heat loss. I read somewhere that air is a great insulator.

[Tyrone]

Sounds good. Is your position north facing? Can you extend the tent up and out as it grows? The older leaves eventually go out wide as the plant grows. That's the issue I found with my tent.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Bae72]

Sounds good. Is your position north facing? Can you extend the tent up and out as it grows? The older leaves eventually go out wide as the plant grows. That's the issue I found with my tent.

Best regards

Tyrone

The position is north facing. There is a wattle nearby which will shade a little sun, but not morning sun. I think having the wattle and other stuff nearby won't hurt because the frost seems lessened now that trees are growing in the front yard. I'd like to have it a bit closer to the house so that it might benefit from bricks that are warmed during the day, but then it wouldn't get sun as early in the morning which I think is important in Winter.

The tent will be something I'm constructing. Not sure how to make extendable, yet sturdy.

I'm glad I joined this forum, you can't find advice like this just searching the web.

Cheers,

Brian.

Edited June 15, 2011 by Bae72

[Tropicgardener]

The Golden Malay Dwarfs are probably the most cold sensitive of any of the Coconuts......generally the greener the Coconut the more resistant to cold it is.....that is what they find in Brisbane anyway.

[Bae72]

The Golden Malay Dwarfs are probably the most cold sensitive of any of the Coconuts......generally the greener the Coconut the more resistant to cold it is.....that is what they find in Brisbane anyway.

That might explain it then. I only got the dwarf because I read that they're precocious and as such would speed up my commercial coconut milk business.....

Cheers.

[Tropicgardener]

From seed my Golden Malay Dwarfs fruited in my Bundaberg garden within 4 years.......so they do fruit very quickly. I currently have 5 growing in my new garden here but I suspect one may be a hybrid. In one park in town there are what appears to be green dwarfs, these were de-nutted at the end of summer but have new fruit forming. If you are interested I may be able to obtain a coconut or 2 for you.

[Tyrone]

The Golden Malay Dwarfs are probably the most cold sensitive of any of the Coconuts......generally the greener the Coconut the more resistant to cold it is.....that is what they find in Brisbane anyway.

That's interesting that you say that Andrew. I don't doubt it at all. That basically means I've chosen the toughest to grow coconut there is. The advice I got over here was the opposite BUT how many of them actually tried it themselves? You QLD guys would know. So if my Golden Dwarf Malay dies, then a green form may do even better. So far it's not looking like dying any time soon. Even now I'm getting a cm of spear growth every night. If it was going to die, last winters record cold should have done it. But it pulled through. I wonder when it will fruit??????? It's been in the ground for 3.5 years. How much clear trunk do they need before they flower?

Best regards

Tyrone

[Tropicgardener]

Hi Tyrone, I remember reading in another post that your coconut is a Malay Dwarf and found that to be quite interesting that it was doing so well for you........back in 1987 I brought a Golden Malay down from Cairns to Brisbane (along with other coconuts). In the winter of 1988 the Malay suffered immensely from the cold and died whilst the others were hardly marked. I know that Golden Malays tend to be the first ones to suffer in Brisbane during a cold winter. The greens always seem to come through winter better down there, not such a problem here though. As for fruiting, I have been told that there are some Golden Malays fruiting down in the bayside suburbs.

The Golden Malays that I had in Bundaberg flowered in 3 1/2 years but didn't set fruit till they were around 4 years old. At that time they only had a couple of feet of trunk.

Here are my Bundaberg Malays, photo taken back in 2006 when they were 5 years old.

[Bae72]

From seed my Golden Malay Dwarfs fruited in my Bundaberg garden within 4 years.......so they do fruit very quickly. I currently have 5 growing in my new garden here but I suspect one may be a hybrid. In one park in town there are what appears to be green dwarfs, these were de-nutted at the end of summer but have new fruit forming. If you are interested I may be able to obtain a coconut or 2 for you.

Certainly interested in obtaining more coconuts. It's very much trial and error. So, I need to replace the, erm, unsuccessful trials.

[Tyrone]

Hi Tyrone, I remember reading in another post that your coconut is a Malay Dwarf and found that to be quite interesting that it was doing so well for you........back in 1987 I brought a Golden Malay down from Cairns to Brisbane (along with other coconuts). In the winter of 1988 the Malay suffered immensely from the cold and died whilst the others were hardly marked. I know that Golden Malays tend to be the first ones to suffer in Brisbane during a cold winter. The greens always seem to come through winter better down there, not such a problem here though. As for fruiting, I have been told that there are some Golden Malays fruiting down in the bayside suburbs.

The Golden Malays that I had in Bundaberg flowered in 3 1/2 years but didn't set fruit till they were around 4 years old. At that time they only had a couple of feet of trunk.

Here are my Bundaberg Malays, photo taken back in 2006 when they were 5 years old.

Thanks for the info. I must be doing something right. Yours look fantastic. Mines got about 15cm of clear trunk. So it's got a little way to go yet before it flowers. I'd imagine mine is 5 years old from seed now. Will be really happy if it flowers and even more so if it fruits.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Takil-Explorer]

Maybe they get in Assam in India some good forms. Its well outside the tropics and can be a bit chilly now and then in winter.

Alexander

[Bae72]

I think I've found out why one of the coconuts was so dry. It was in the path of the small fan heater and during the day when I'd check the greenhouse, the heater wouldn't be on, and I didn't notice it. At night, especially frosty nights like last night, the fan heater would be on almost non stop, pushing warm air past the post of the coco. I've moved it, hopefully the soil will soak in the water I gave it. The soil was so dry it had pulled away from the edge of the pot.

[Tyrone]

I think I've found out why one of the coconuts was so dry. It was in the path of the small fan heater and during the day when I'd check the greenhouse, the heater wouldn't be on, and I didn't notice it. At night, especially frosty nights like last night, the fan heater would be on almost non stop, pushing warm air past the post of the coco. I've moved it, hopefully the soil will soak in the water I gave it. The soil was so dry it had pulled away from the edge of the pot.

Welcome to the pleasures and trials of heated greenhouse growing. Weird things happen with heat sources coming in at all strange angles.

I got over my heated greenhouse phase when I got a horror power bill. But I was using 1500W of heat lamp in there. Kept a Lipstick cranking through winter. It wasn't worth it.

Now geothermal is the way to go. Just drilling the 4km deep hole is the issue.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Bae72]

I think I've found out why one of the coconuts was so dry. It was in the path of the small fan heater and during the day when I'd check the greenhouse, the heater wouldn't be on, and I didn't notice it. At night, especially frosty nights like last night, the fan heater would be on almost non stop, pushing warm air past the post of the coco. I've moved it, hopefully the soil will soak in the water I gave it. The soil was so dry it had pulled away from the edge of the pot.

Welcome to the pleasures and trials of heated greenhouse growing. Weird things happen with heat sources coming in at all strange angles.

I got over my heated greenhouse phase when I got a horror power bill. But I was using 1500W of heat lamp in there. Kept a Lipstick cranking through winter. It wasn't worth it.

Now geothermal is the way to go. Just drilling the 4km deep hole is the issue.

Best regards

Tyrone

Oddly enough, there are places not to far from here that use Geothermal. Of course, they drill down to the aquifer. But it's 'only' hundreds of meters....

www.peninsulahotsprings.com

[Coco Bonsai]

Good job.....

wish you could make like these...

[PalmatierMeg]

Good job.....

wish you could make like these...

Welcome to PalmTalk, CB. Your pictures are fantastic. A lot of us would really love it if you would give us lessons, with photos, on exactly how to bonsai coconuts. I know a lot of people would love to have one of your bonsais. But I see you don't send them to the USA (don't know about other places). So, if we can't buy one from you, perhaps we could learn how you do it. So many people would be ever grateful to you because you plainly have a special touch with them. Do you bonsai other palm species?

[Coco Bonsai]

Good job.....

wish you could make like these...

Welcome to PalmTalk, CB. Your pictures are fantastic. A lot of us would really love it if you would give us lessons, with photos, on exactly how to bonsai coconuts. I know a lot of people would love to have one of your bonsais. But I see you don't send them to the USA (don't know about other places). So, if we can't buy one from you, perhaps we could learn how you do it. So many people would be ever grateful to you because you plainly have a special touch with them. Do you bonsai other palm species?

Thank you PalmatierMeg, have you visit my FB page? you can learn how to grow the coco bonsai or coconut bonsai, with photo and theory... or you can email me to talk about it. I've never sent to USA, but has delivered 4 plants to Holland for sample products last february, but so sad all dead due to extremely weather in Europe last june. I want to send to USA but wonder about the shipping cost, it would be expensive. FYI, the product price around US$30.- to US$50.- each (depend on the form and the age), the ship cost more than US$100.- each.....

I am glade to give more info and let you know about this.... please visit http://www.facebook.com/coco.bonsai or http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/pages/Coco-Bonsai/191417977569937

Honestly, I try to grow Fox tail palm bonsai and Queen palm bonsai since february.

Thank you.

[Bae72]

Good job.....

wish you could make like these...

Welcome to PalmTalk, CB. Your pictures are fantastic. A lot of us would really love it if you would give us lessons, with photos, on exactly how to bonsai coconuts. I know a lot of people would love to have one of your bonsais. But I see you don't send them to the USA (don't know about other places). So, if we can't buy one from you, perhaps we could learn how you do it. So many people would be ever grateful to you because you plainly have a special touch with them. Do you bonsai other palm species?

Thank you PalmatierMeg, have you visit my FB page? you can learn how to grow the coco bonsai or coconut bonsai, with photo and theory... or you can email me to talk about it. I've never sent to USA, but has delivered 4 plants to Holland for sample products last february, but so sad all dead due to extremely weather in Europe last june. I want to send to USA but wonder about the shipping cost, it would be expensive. FYI, the product price around US$30.- to US$50.- each (depend on the form and the age), the ship cost more than US$100.- each.....

I am glade to give more info and let you know about this.... please visit http://www.facebook.com/coco.bonsai or http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/pages/Coco-Bonsai/191417977569937

Honestly, I try to grow Fox tail palm bonsai and Queen palm bonsai since february.

Thank you.

Hi Coco Bonsai. I really like your work. I have had a quick look at your FB page. I'll take a better look soon. Is it OK if I PM you to find out more information? Do you ship to Australia?

[Coco Bonsai]

Good job.....

wish you could make like these...

Welcome to PalmTalk, CB. Your pictures are fantastic. A lot of us would really love it if you would give us lessons, with photos, on exactly how to bonsai coconuts. I know a lot of people would love to have one of your bonsais. But I see you don't send them to the USA (don't know about other places). So, if we can't buy one from you, perhaps we could learn how you do it. So many people would be ever grateful to you because you plainly have a special touch with them. Do you bonsai other palm species?

Thank you PalmatierMeg, have you visit my FB page? you can learn how to grow the coco bonsai or coconut bonsai, with photo and theory... or you can email me to talk about it. I've never sent to USA, but has delivered 4 plants to Holland for sample products last february, but so sad all dead due to extremely weather in Europe last june. I want to send to USA but wonder about the shipping cost, it would be expensive. FYI, the product price around US$30.- to US$50.- each (depend on the form and the age), the ship cost more than US$100.- each.....

I am glade to give more info and let you know about this.... please visit http://www.facebook.com/coco.bonsai or http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/pages/Coco-Bonsai/191417977569937

Honestly, I try to grow Fox tail palm bonsai and Queen palm bonsai since february.

Thank you.

Hi Coco Bonsai. I really like your work. I have had a quick look at your FB page. I'll take a better look soon. Is it OK if I PM you to find out more information? Do you ship to Australia?

Hi bae,

it's ok to PM me duakembang@yahoo.com , we can talk more about it.... honestly, I've never shipped to other besides Holland....

[sebasroch]

hi guys, i brought one from piura peru to Lima , its a hawaaian tall (yellow) and today i remove the nut, so now its free , only the roots, but it needs sun, you know that in lima, winters are cloudy, well all south are near to spring , so hope to grow all yours and mine too hehe

[sebasroch]

here it is

[sebasroch]

another

[sebasroch]

whats your opinions?