Teddy Bear or Red Neck

[bubba]

Took two shots of this specimen but am still confused as to which nickname applies:

A bit closer:

Seems to have a furry red neck but does that mean Teddy Bear or Red Neck?

[Kim]

Bubba, I'm going to stick my "neck" out and say those are D. leptocheilos, or teddy bears. D. lastelliana, or redneck, hold the fronds more vertically and grow to be more robust in the trunk and red fuzz areas. But they are beauties, all. Nice pix.

I should add, I am no expert, so look for confirmation from someone more qualified.

[sur4z]

while they both have red necks this looks like a dypsis leptocheilos (red neck) and not the dypsis lastelliana (teddy bear)...just sayin.

[sur4z]

Bubba, I'm going to stick my "neck" out and say those are D. leptochielos, or teddy bears. D. lastelliana, or redneck, hold the fronds more vertically and grow to be more robust in the trunk and red fuzz areas. But they are beauties, all. Nice pix.

I should add, I am no expert, so look for confirmation from someone more qualified.

Kim- I'm sure you've been at this longer then me... I agree it is a D.leptochielos... but my reference source calls that the redneck and D.lastelliana the teddy bear.

[paulgila]

i have seen a fair amount of d.leptochielos & they look like the palms pictured. havent seen many (or perhaps ANY) d.lastelliana of any size so i couldnt comment on that.

oops,i just DID!

[MattyB]

I agree that they are Dypsis leptocheilos.

I've seen the terms Redneck and Teddybear used interchangeably depending on what area of the world you are. Here in CA we call Dypsis leptocheilos the teddy bear palm. We don't see many Dypsis lastelliana here but they are sometimes refered to as the Redneck palm. Sounds like you guys in florida are backweirds.

[Pez]

I'm at work so i dont have my Palms of Madagascar book in front of me. But i believe one of the names in the local language for Dypsis lastelliana translates to redneck in english.

[Walter John]

This is an old classic for common name confusion. "Redneck" and "Teddy Bear" are both common names used for the Dypsis leptocheilos palm, and that is the palm in your picture. "Redneck" or "American redneck" have been used as common names for Dypsis lastelliana. The difference between the two is striking actually. Lastys are bigger and taller than leptos and their red tormentum crownshaft is of a darker reddish colour, much better looking palm than leptos in my opinion, but slower to grow.

You've just read how I prefer to call them, it's an assuie trait, we like to shorten the names as a nickname, hence lastys (pronounced las-tease)and leptos (prounouced lep-toes).

That's my take.

[palmislandRandy]

Bubba, Is that the Four Arts Garden? (or is called the Four Seasons Garden?) I always thought Redneck & Teddy Bear were interchangeable.

Randy

[Kumar]

Here is a small cluster of them from Nong Nooch Gardens, Thailand.

[Pez]

I'm at work so i dont have my Palms of Madagascar book in front of me. But i believe one of the names in the local language for Dypsis lastelliana translates to redneck in english.

Menavozona (Betsimisaraka, meaning redneck)

[Tyrone]

When the POM was written D leptocheilos was not seen in the wild. It since has. So the only redneck the majority of Malagasy people know is D lastelliana, except for those who live near the few D leptocheilos that have since been rediscovered. They'd probably use Menavozona for both species.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Kim]

This photo shows the crownshaft of a D. lastelliana, which I would call D. lastelliana. To my eye, it is much more robust than its cousin. (I took the photo at the Panaewa Zoo outside Hilo, Hawaii.)

[Walter John]

And here's what happens when the old hybrid game comes into play when decaryi is crossed with leptocheilos, check out where/how/why the teddy bear name is generated.

Known around the traps as a Red Triangle. Click on the 2nd picture for a fuzzy feeling.

[sur4z]

I realize this might not be the last word but here is a link to an on line palm library that distinguishes the two palms...at the very least it will give you a reference source for

discussions.

http://www.plantapalm.com/vpe/photos/vpe_photos.htm

[Kim]

If trying to distinguish the two palms visually, the photos on Palmpedia are comprehensive enough to make the distinctions readily observable.

http://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/index.php/Dypsis_leptocheilos

http://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/index.php/Dypsis_lastelliana

The vertically held leaves of the D. lastelliana are best observed in the 3rd photo from the bottom of the page.

Nicknames don't amount to much; you may call them what you please and expect to be misunderstood half the time.

[DoomsDave]

Bubba, the palms in your picture are D. leptocheilos.

Forget that Redneck/Teddybear business. Both are redneck, and both are teddybear . . .

A one and a-two . . .

Come on let me be

A redneck teddybear

Plant me nice in the ground

Water me constantly

@=)

:-@

[bubba]

Got to love those Lasty's. Those are bright red.

[Darold Petty]

This thread is the best example of why we should strive to use only the Latin binomials.

[Jeff in St Pete]

This thread is the best example of why we should strive to use only the Latin binomials.

Darold, I couldn't agree more!

[Walter John]

This thread is the best example of why we should strive to use only the Latin binomials.

Darold, I couldn't agree more!

I hope to see you guys chime in next time "King" palms get mentioned..

[bubba]

Excuse me while I finish declining the Subjective Passive Pluperfect verbs that I was scheduled to complete last week...

[cfkingfish]

Excuse me while I finish declining the Subjective Passive Pluperfect verbs that I was scheduled to complete last week...

You too eh?

The difference between the way the two grow is huge. lastelliana looks more like carlsmithii as a juvenile with a heel and all.

Kumar, that plant you have pictured looks like their cabadae x leptochelios.

[palmcurry]

Call 'em whatever you want. All the palms posted in this thread are awesome!

[Moose]

Bubba, I'm going to stick my "neck" out and say those are D. leptocheilos, or teddy bears. D. lastelliana, or redneck, hold the fronds more vertically and grow to be more robust in the trunk and red fuzz areas. But they are beauties, all. Nice pix.

I should add, I am no expert, so look for confirmation from someone more qualified.

I agree with Kim. Another way to differentuate the palms in South Florida is:

If it looks great - its a Dypsis leptochelios

If it looks like crap - its a Dypsis lastelliana

I just cut down my Dypsis lastelliana this past summer. After 17 years of kissing its butt and it never looked good after the first three years in the ground, it had to go. replaced it with a Licuala ramsayi

[stygiana]

Hi moose knuckle

If it looks like crap - its a Dypsis lastelliana

What makes you believe this? I don't think D. lastelliana looks like crap in itself, so there must be a good reason if you state so...

Do you mean that they don't like Florida and always look sad there? If it is what you meant, do you think it comes from the soil, or the climate?

[DoomsDave]

Bubba, I'm going to stick my "neck" out and say those are D. leptocheilos, or teddy bears. D. lastelliana, or redneck, hold the fronds more vertically and grow to be more robust in the trunk and red fuzz areas. But they are beauties, all. Nice pix.

I should add, I am no expert, so look for confirmation from someone more qualified.

I agree with Kim. Another way to differentuate the palms in South Florida is:

If it looks great - its a Dypsis leptochelios

If it looks like crap - its a Dypsis lastelliana

I just cut down my Dypsis lastelliana this past summer. After 17 years of kissing its butt and it never looked good after the first three years in the ground, it had to go. replaced it with a Licuala ramsayi

Here in so-Cal, the Lasties croak, while the Lepties thrive, in more or less coastal areas, though not right at the beach.

[Mandrew968]

Moose--there are plenty of Leptocheilos in South Florida that look like crap; rarely will you find our soil to have enough iron for them--amendments are critical to have a robust example. Not many, if any lastelliana, round these parts...

[stygiana]

Hi Dave (back in SoCal? or still among the Pigafettas? ),

Thanks for the info on how they behave in California.

I knew Tyrone grew D. leptocheilos under a Mediterranean climate in WA (he's just so good in acclimatizing borderline species apparently...), but never hear any information concerning lastelliana in such climates.

I thought that in the frost-free or almost frost-free parts of Florida, with more heat lastelliana would look fine. So could it be the soil or water pH, or something of that kind???

I have both here. lastelliana is just a seedling but looks fine, happy, dense and deep green. So I don't see any sign of suffering. No spots, nothing. It's quite slow though, so it hope it will not still be called "seedling" in a few decades (or centuries? ), while as most seem to have noted, leptocheilos appears to be faster.

[DoomsDave]

Hi Dave (back in SoCal? or still among the Pigafettas? ),

Thanks for the info on how they behave in California.

I knew Tyrone grew D. leptocheilos under a Mediterranean climate in WA (he's just so good in acclimatizing borderline species apparently...), but never hear any information concerning lastelliana in such climates.

I thought that in the frost-free or almost frost-free parts of Florida, with more heat lastelliana would look fine. So could it be the soil or water pH, or something of that kind???

I have both here. lastelliana is just a seedling but looks fine, happy, dense and deep green. So I don't see any sign of suffering. No spots, nothing. It's quite slow though, so it hope it will not still be called "seedling" in a few decades (or centuries? ), while as most seem to have noted, leptocheilos appears to be faster.

I'm back in the Mainland Megalopolis of Doom.

Hmm. There don't appear to be many places where both lasties and leptos do well.

Maybe my next trip will be to the Canaries . . . .

[Moose]

Hi moose knuckle

If it looks like crap - its a Dypsis lastelliana

What makes you believe this? I don't think D. lastelliana looks like crap in itself, so there must be a good reason if you state so...

Do you mean that they don't like Florida and always look sad there? If it is what you meant, do you think it comes from the soil, or the climate?

I suspect that Dypsis lastelliana is not fond of the South Florida calcareous soils. Mine was fertilized with a palm special formulated for our soils, peat moss amendments and mulched. Sulphur amendments, coffee grounds, oak leaf mold, water soluble azalea fertilizer amendments and treatments with Sequestrian 138 (Ionized iron for calcareous soil), etc ...

It had 13 ft. of trunk when I cut it down. Sometimes one needs to admit their limitations.

[Mandrew968]

Moose, I would love to see a past photo of it--even if pitiful...

[stygiana]

I suspect that Dypsis lastelliana is not fond of the South Florida calcareous soils. Mine was fertilized with a palm special formulated for our soils, peat moss amendments and mulched. Sulphur amendments, coffee grounds, oak leaf mold, water soluble azalea fertilizer amendments and treatments with Sequestrian 138 (Ionized iron for calcareous soil), etc ...

It had 13 ft. of trunk when I cut it down. Sometimes one needs to admit their limitations.

Thanks Moose for this clarification.

I'm back in the Mainland Megalopolis of Doom.

Hmm. There don't appear to be many places where both lasties and leptos do well.

Maybe my next trip will be to the Canaries . . . .

I agree, Canary islands climate is just unreal. Although you can find similar examples on some tropical and equatorial mountains between 800 m (2600 f) and 1500 m (5000 f).

I'm quite high, so my warm season is warmer than what can be observed at sea level (where the ocean cools down the air), and my cool season (which just started these last few days) is cooler. However, I have side by side Jubaea and coconut, Roystonea oleracea and Ceroxylon, Pinangas of all sorts and Rhopalostylis...

Carlo Morici could confirm it's quite a great place to grow palms (and many other things, as I have Theobroma growing well just next to a bountiful peach tree), as he's here for much longer than me.

It seems that the absence of heat makes plants which are said to require some chill, either to grow or set fruits, finally do well without any chill.

You're most welcome to visit us in the Canary, or course. Lot's of things to see here!

Edited January 24, 2012 by Sebastian Bano

[LauraAnu]

Interesting thread. To chime in here, I do have both growing and the difference is very noticeable. The dypsis leptecheilos is pretty fast and easy grower. It receives very little attention and is thriving in the back yard. I planted it two years ago from a three gallon and it is showing trunk now. Fast grower, lush leaves and nice brown fuzz.

Dypsis lastelliana on the other hand was also planted as a three gallon two years ago still has its distinct heel, the fronds are longer but they are not a lush green (more yellow green to be exact ). This plant has not even fattened up much at the base so I am sure it is a long way from trunking. The fronds are also slower to emerge but if it is any consolation, each frond gets bigger and bigger. The colouring is also darker in the fuzz (closer to black at this stage and it also has mealy bug markings on the stem.

That's my two cents on the topic.

Laura

[Jeff Searle]

My experiences here are, both species do well in my yard, which has a dark/black soil with a mid range pH and plenty of water. D. lepto. grows much faster and can tend to get "ratty" if exposed to lots of wind and no protection. My three palms are pretty protected and therefore look really good and fat trunks. My D. lastelliana has been planted about 5 years now and still looks very good but is only about 6-7' tall, and would be just leaves, no trunk. But the rate of growth is so much slower.

[Daryl]

From what I've seen with my plants, D.leptocheilos is much faster initially, but D.lastelliana eventually catches up. The plants of both species that I planted at the same time are now both a similar overall height. The difference is that D.leptocheilos has more trunk height, but D.lastellianana has much larger leaves and a bulkier trunk. Once D.lastelliana produces a trunk it gains height reasonable quickly and 'catches' D.leptocheilos. IMO D.lastelliana is a much better looking palm.

Daryl

[Mandrew968]

My experiences here are, both species do well in my yard, which has a dark/black soil with a mid range pH and plenty of water. D. lepto. grows much faster and can tend to get "ratty" if exposed to lots of wind and no protection. My three palms are pretty protected and therefore look really good and fat trunks. My D. lastelliana has been planted about 5 years now and still looks very good but is only about 6-7' tall, and would be just leaves, no trunk. But the rate of growth is so much slower.

Of course, if anyone were to(locally) have a lastelliana and have success with it, it would be Mr. Searle.