Difference of cold hardiness of Syagrus romanzoffiana

[Eric in Orlando]

I don't know how hardy these S. romanzoffiana are but they were grown from seed wild collected in Paraguay. They are a smaller form with thinner trunks and slower growing. They were planted out in 2005 and are only about 10-12ft tall. They have also started flowering at this smaller size;

[edbrown_III]

Eric,

I enjoy your photos---- what is the history on the collection where was it collected in Paraquai?

Best regards

Ed

[Takil-Explorer]

Nigel,

The last picture was indeed in the Serra Catarinense. But what I remember was that Syagrus where usely starting a bit lower down then the Butia eriospatha. But at some places growing together as well.

Alexander

[Nigel]

Alexander, Butia eriospatha can be found between 750m and 1100 m altitude. Syagrus can be found much higher than this. Syagrus is a Brasilain weed it grows everywhere.

[IdolLurker]

I don't know how hardy these S. romanzoffiana are but they were grown from seed wild collected in Paraguay. They are a smaller form with thinner trunks and slower growing. They were planted out in 2005 and are only about 10-12ft tall. They have also started flowering at this smaller size;

Eric,

Do you think that you could get seeds or pollen from any of these for me? I have seen all the queens here in north florida die eventually but none of them looked like this. I would like to grow some that aren't so tall as the huge ones since I need just the pollen.

Thanks,

Debra

[IdolLurker]

I have one about 12 foot tall or so here in Jax its not doing bad and just started flowering --- freeze didnt bother it that much --- I noticed alot of older leeaves on Livistonas die in the aftermth of a cold spell. I dont know if it is the lack of water durng the dry season or just the latent effects of the freezes.

I had some burning with one of the queens but most of them are okay.

Best regards

Ed

If you get a chance I would like to see a picture of your queen palm - you are so fortunate to have one like this.

[IdolLurker]

I have one about 12 foot tall or so here in Jax its not doing bad and just started flowering --- freeze didnt bother it that much --- I noticed alot of older leeaves on Livistonas die in the aftermth of a cold spell. I dont know if it is the lack of water durng the dry season or just the latent effects of the freezes.

I had some burning with one of the queens but most of them are okay.

Best regards

Ed

If you get a chance I would like to see a picture of your queen palm - you are so fortunate to have one like this.

Ed,

I wanted to compare your area (Jacksonville) with mine (Tallahassee) and they seem very similar. So if the hardy queen trees can grow there in your place then generally I should be OK - that is if I can get some of the same cold hardy queens.

Here are the record low's up to 2010 in cities nationwide in the link. Some select cities in Florida are in the attached table. These are not daily averages but lowest on record and worst case scenario. It gives you some appreciation for what those very very older trees went through somewhere along the line!!

http://www1.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/ccd-data/lowtmp10.txt

LOWEST ON RECORD DATA THROUGH 2010.doc

Edited August 15, 2011 by IdolLurker

[Alberto]

I only now saw Keith´s question.....this places in Santa Catarina are probably the coldest in whole Brazil

[_Keith]

Can't say anything about origins, but this is my queen. After seeing 3 night in a row at 20,19,21 and many many lighter freezes that year it was no worse for the wear with little damage. This was taken today, 2 years after those freezes.

[Kailua_Krish]

I don't know how hardy these S. romanzoffiana are but they were grown from seed wild collected in Paraguay. They are a smaller form with thinner trunks and slower growing. They were planted out in 2005 and are only about 10-12ft tall. They have also started flowering at this smaller size;

Does anyone have any other information on this form? I got some from Redlands that were from Uruguay and they seem to grow like Erics. They are extremely slow growing for queens and the leaves are smaller and finer. I've heard that this form is pretty cold hardy but havent found much information on it. Such a variable species!

[Axel Amsterdam]

Can't say anything about origins, but this is my queen. After seeing 3 night in a row at 20,19,21 and many many lighter freezes that year it was no worse for the wear with little damage. This was taken today, 2 years after those freezes.

Nice monster Keith, are these all 2 year old fronds then? Impressive.

Do young queens in your climate take off immediately after planting or do these take a couple of years to get started?

[Alberto]

Also a difference I see with the "native queen" and the "tropical queen" is that the first has a fuller crown with green arching fronds below the 45º angle and also commonly touching the trunk,

[Axel Amsterdam]

Alberto, do you have a recent picture of the tropical queen in your garden? Is it growing at the same pace as the native queens?

[Axel Amsterdam]

I am kicking myself for not taking pics of the small litoral syagrus because i was so focused on Butias. If I put the two photos side by side you would not believe it was the same species.

You´re lucky I´m not at your side this moment...I myself would be kicking you!

Yes very dumb of me, some of them when fruiting are not much bigger than yur Chameadorea plumosas to give an idea of size.

Now you´re making me really curious!!!!!!

How were the trunks? Are they atractive or somewhat stunted look?

No is a very beautiful palm , is like a different species !!!

is this the type?

http://goo.gl/maps/mYXNq

http://goo.gl/maps/8opIm

Edited August 31, 2013 by Axel Amsterdam

[Nigel]

Axel yes, these are examples , these probably have trunks my height with leaves of maximum 1 metre in length. They really look like dwarf Syagrus rom. Often you see them this size with large caches of seeds on them . Along this road they are all like this, some with maybe a dozen leaves or more and quite beautiful, even stockier than in these photos.

[Alicehunter2000]

Keith did your queen survive 2014 Polar Vortex?

[_Keith]

3 hours ago, Alicehunter2000 said:

Keith did your queen survive 2014 Polar Vortex?

It did indeed.  Took a bit of damage, but is now fully recovered.   Even seeded last year, so I have a few babies now. I'll pop up a picture in the next few days.

[richtrav]

There were some queen palms SE of Asuncion that were on the smaller side but never paid much attention to it. Just thought the very rocky conditions had stunted some of them.

 

[_Keith]

On 7/8/2016, 8:31:36, _Keith said:

It did indeed.  Took a bit of damage, but is now fully recovered.   Even seeded last year, so I have a few babies now. I'll pop up a picture in the next few days.

Still not quite as pretty, but almost.   If we can get some rains, it'll be there by fall.  Then I just have to pray for just one more mild winter. 

[Alicehunter2000]

Nice...what lows did it receive during 2014? Ice?

If you ever come over this way I'll trade you for a seedling. :)

[_Keith]

18 minutes ago, Alicehunter2000 said:

Nice...what lows did it receive during 2014? Ice?

If you ever come over this way I'll trade you for a seedling.

In 2010, 3 nights right at 20, one at 19.   In 2014, 3 nights rights in low 20s, lowest around 21 I think.  Then there was an ice storm a few weeks later with lots of ice, and not long after that another 3 nighter around 22.   2014 hurt it pretty bad about 75 percent frond loss.  Most queens in this area were total loss.  CIDP and sylvestris were the same, badly hurt, but also came back.  This bad boy just keeps coming back stronger.

[_Keith]

On 7/9/2016, 10:23:51, _Keith said:

Still not quite as pretty, but almost.   If we can get some rains, it'll be there by fall.  Then I just have to pray for just one more mild winter. 

At 17 degrees, this winter was the coldest in Louisiana in 28 years, and in total hours below freezing even further back than that.   This queen sits with 100% foliage loss and I fear it dead.  Time will tell.

[Cikas]

Santa Catarina form is definitely more cold hardy than normal form. At least they are in my garden. 

Edited March 1, 2018 by Cikas

[yeye]

Keep us informed about your Queen Keith! i cross the fingers for  a fast recovery.

[mthteh1916]

On 2/28/2018, 10:27:23, _Keith said:

At 17 degrees, this winter was the coldest in Louisiana in 28 years, and in total hours below freezing even further back than that.   This queen sits with 100% foliage loss and I fear it dead.  Time will tell.

Incredible that in Athens and Naples Italy much further from the equator than you they never get damage on Queen Palms. Your Queen, like most in New Orleans is most likely dead. Can't take below 20F and certainly not multiple nights in low 20'sF and ice. Unfortunately you  live on a sub arctic continent with zero protection from the Arctic, and probably should stick to the native boring sabal palmettos and needle palms. Your area will never be free of Arctic blasts like you just had. Maybe 10 years will go by, but you will get hit again and again like in the 60's, 70's, 80's and then now. You had a nice break but it is over. North America east of the MS river is a classic climate fail, and the Southeast has a very sub par subtropical climate compared to Australia, Argentina, South Africa, and Western Europe. Even China has more stable and less wild temp swings in winter than your area. Think about this, in Australia, at the latitude of Norfolk VA they easily grow all kinds of citrus, bananas, queen palms, pygmy dates, etc. That should give you an idea of just how ripped off we got in North America. You have ungodly hot summers that give you no protection in winter. You have no mountains for protection from the Arctic, and no massive body of water to the north to protect you. Just land all the way to the North Pole. Forget about it.

Edited March 13, 2018 by mthteh1916

[_Keith]

On 3/1/2018, 1:47:52, yeye said:

Keep us informed about your Queen Keith! i cross the fingers for  a fast recovery.

Still no sign of life. Not looking good

[alohas]

DSC06282 by alohas alohas, sur Flickr
 

Here's my parana syagrus after 19 deg f two weeks ago with strong wind, the damage doesn't show completely on this picture but the leaves are burnt at about 50%.

Edited March 14, 2018 by alohas

[mthteh1916]

13 hours ago, _Keith said:

Still no sign of life. Not looking good

Keith, sorry but a Queen just cannot take 17F. 19F killed multiple Queens in Orlando in the 1980's. Best plan is to replant a bunch of them since they are cheap and fast growing and hope you have another 28 year run.

[Alicehunter2000]

Keith....did it survive?