mature Jubaea chilensis in Orlando,Florida

[Eric in Orlando]

Today I went and got photos of the mature Jubaea chilensis I found locally. The house owner came out and talked to me and gave me some information. The owner said they bought the house about 40 years ago and the palm was growing there then. It was about 5 feet shorter then. They renovated and added on to the house around 10 years ago and moved the palm about 15 feet from where it was originally growing. The house was built in 1975. The property was originally part of a large estate. The original estate house is up the street and was built in 1910. He said it was probably planted before the house was built when the property was part of the former estate.

This is located in Winter Park on the north side of Lake Osceola. This maybe the only trunking Jubaea in all of Florida !!!

[Eric in Orlando]

[Nigel]

That must be the oldest JubaeaxButia I have ever seen !!!

[sonoranfans]

Sure is pretty whatever it is...

[Ken Johnson]

  On 9/6/2011 at 8:59 PM, sonoranfans said:

Sure is pretty whatever it is...

Hold on a second....thats pretty?

[Alberto]

A magnificent palm!

I also have the impression I see a little hint of Butia in it....I´m not sure......Some twisted fronds,little drooping leaflets, arching....

[swolf]

That is an amazing discovery Eric. Thanks for documenting and posting. Great palm, but what are the holes in the trunk from -- woodpeckers?

Steve

St. Augustine FL

[bubba]

Great find! I have dreams about finding Palms like that but then I wake up.

[Manolitus]

So what is it ? A pure bred Jubaea Chilensis or the JubaeaXButia ???

Either way its a very cool find.

Manny

[iamjv]

Indeed a cool find.... I'm thinking it's a JxB myself, for the same reasons that were stated already.

[BigBpalms]

I grew up in that neighborhood and can vouch that its been there for a long time (30 years)- but i always thought it was a mule with a very robust trunk...

[Mark Heath]

Great find Eric!

What a beaut. I would love to have that bad boy in my garden.

[Nigel]

this is the giveaway, this recurve and V cannot be present in true Jub.

[DoomsDave]

Looks like an ancient JubeaXButea mule.

They are not fast, that's for sure.

[M@ximus]

I think that it is a classic and beautiful Jubaea

All Jubaeas showing new leaves V shaped

Also the trunk that become smaller with age is a caracteristic of Jubaea

Great palm . Thanks for sharing

Best M@x

[TimHopper]

Eric, That is an amazing tree, and a great story to go along with it. Thanks for taking the time to post the photos. Tim

[Nigel]

  On 9/7/2011 at 11:31 AM, M@ximus said:

I think that it is a classic and beautiful Jubaea

All Jubaeas showing new leaves V shaped

Also the trunk that become smaller with age is a caracteristic of Jubaea

Great palm . Thanks for sharing

Best M@x

max, do you have a photo of Jubaea showing this recurve and V in the leaf at point I indicated in my photo ?

I have never seen this.

We have to look at the evidence, growing in florida, thinner than normal trunk, recurve to leaf tip and retaining v in the upright leafs.

In my opinion it cannot be pure Jubaea but I would like to be proved wrong.

In this Jubaea pic you can clearly see no hint of v or recurve in leaf of the same age.

Additionally, if it were Jubaea it should be heavy with fruit as lone palms can produce heavy crops. The tauranga JxB which shows similarities to this one also produces very little fruit.

Edited September 7, 2011 by Nigel

[Nigel]

Now make comparison with the tauranga JxB.

Here you see the same recurve at leaf tip and v in same location as the Orlando palm.

In fact the two are almost identical leaf for leaf. It is just the orlando one is more trimmed.

Edited September 7, 2011 by Nigel

[Manolitus]

Sounds like we have a verdict ????

[Eric in Orlando]

If it is a hybrid, it is showing very little Butia characteristics. There are a couple big hybrids around here and you can see Butia in them but this appears to be very Jubaea-like.

It had some old inflorescences but no fruit or seeds now. The owner said it had fruited because he asked if they were poisonous.

Whatever it is, it's an incredible specimen

[Eric in Orlando]

  On 9/7/2011 at 2:41 AM, BigBpalms said:

I grew up in that neighborhood and can vouch that its been there for a long time (30 years)- but i always thought it was a mule with a very robust trunk...

Definitely not a mule.

I went down the street to see the gigantic camphor tree a few houses down. After I saw the camphor I drove down the street and saw this palm from a distance in silouette. At first I got excited as I thought it was a giant Ravenea rivularis then as I got close saw it was something better ! I about soilded myself.

[Alberto]

This palm in Florida is clearly more ´´jubaeaish´´ than the Jubaeutia in Tauranga.

This Florida palm has a ´´pinch´´ of Butia in it...maybe 25% and not 50%?

[Nigel]

  On 9/7/2011 at 2:25 PM, Alberto said:

This palm in Florida is clearly more ´´jubaeaish´´ than the Jubaeutia in Tauranga.

This Florida palm has a ´´pinch´´ of Butia in it...maybe 25% and not 50%?

I dont agree, the tauranga palm is a little more recurved at the leaf ends , but if you actually study the leaf arrangement, the leaves are arranged in almost identical positions and planes, whereas the leaf arrangement of the pure Jubaea is very different.

Had the tauranga palm been trimmed to the same degree I think they would be almost identical.

For me, there is no mature Jubaea in the world with a recurved leaf and V shape on a fully grown frond.

Eric, I think the palm is fabulous , it is possibly one of the oldest Jxb in existence. I also think the difference is also explained by the fact that most tend to be BxJ rather than JxB.

Its good to hear it fruits, the seeds should be quite valuable, the owner should be encouraged to collect them.

[Eric in Orlando]

It would be interesting to know where it came from.

[Eric in Orlando]

2 older Jubaea x Butia specimens in the area that I have seen

downtown Orlando in Lake Eola Park

and in Winter Park, this one appears to be much more Butia

[M@ximus]

  On 9/7/2011 at 2:35 PM, Nigel said:

  On 9/7/2011 at 2:25 PM, Alberto said:

This palm in Florida is clearly more ´´jubaeaish´´ than the Jubaeutia in Tauranga.

This Florida palm has a ´´pinch´´ of Butia in it...maybe 25% and not 50%?

I dont agree, the tauranga palm is a little more recurved at the leaf ends , but if you actually study the leaf arrangement, the leaves are arranged in almost identical positions and planes, whereas the leaf arrangement of the pure Jubaea is very different.

Had the tauranga palm been trimmed to the same degree I think they would be almost identical.

For me, there is no mature Jubaea in the world with a recurved leaf and V shape on a fully grown frond.

Eric, I think the palm is fabulous , it is possibly one of the oldest Jxb in existence. I also think the difference is also explained by the fact that most tend to be BxJ rather than JxB.

Its good to hear it fruits, the seeds should be quite valuable, the owner should be encouraged to collect them.

Nigel , I can't see any Butia influence in the Orlando Jubaea

But this don't means that I'm right.

I'm not an expert and It is just my opinion

Allegate some pics from Melbourne and Italy to compare

Best M@x

[Nigel]

  On 9/7/2011 at 2:56 PM, M@ximus said:

  On 9/7/2011 at 2:35 PM, Nigel said:

  On 9/7/2011 at 2:25 PM, Alberto said:

This palm in Florida is clearly more ´´jubaeaish´´ than the Jubaeutia in Tauranga.

This Florida palm has a ´´pinch´´ of Butia in it...maybe 25% and not 50%?

I dont agree, the tauranga palm is a little more recurved at the leaf ends , but if you actually study the leaf arrangement, the leaves are arranged in almost identical positions and planes, whereas the leaf arrangement of the pure Jubaea is very different.

Had the tauranga palm been trimmed to the same degree I think they would be almost identical.

For me, there is no mature Jubaea in the world with a recurved leaf and V shape on a fully grown frond.

Eric, I think the palm is fabulous , it is possibly one of the oldest Jxb in existence. I also think the difference is also explained by the fact that most tend to be BxJ rather than JxB.

Its good to hear it fruits, the seeds should be quite valuable, the owner should be encouraged to collect them.

Nigel , I can't see any Butia influence in the Orlando Jubaea

But this don't means that I'm right.

I'm not an expert and It is just my opinion

Allegate some pics from Melbourne and Italy to compare

Best M@x

Eric that first Jxb is very similar !!!

Max, they are beautiful Jubaeas but none have the recurved leaf with V arrangement in Erics palm !!

[merrillwx]

We thank you all for your contributions! I'm voting w/ Nigel. It will be fascinating to see if it is fertile!

Best Wishes,

merrill

[Walt]

Regardless of the palm's exact species make up, it's no doubt a palm very rare to Florida and one I would be thrilled to have growing at my place.

[Nigel]

Try again with very bad paint job to try to illustrate the difference,red highlight on upright front leaf

eric pic vs max pic

[TimHopper]

I think that considering it's age and location that it is safe to assume Jubaea x Butia. It certainly is very Jubaea-like though. I don't think that a pure Jubaea would ever survive to that age here in Central Florida. I keep coming back to this thread to see the photos again. I have never seen anything like that here. What a great find Eric.

[Mandrew968]

  On 9/7/2011 at 5:29 PM, TimHopper said:

I think that considering it's age and location that it is safe to assume Jubaea x Butia. It certainly is very Jubaea-like though. I don't think that a pure Jubaea would ever survive to that age here in Central Florida. I keep coming back to this thread to see the photos again. I have never seen anything like that here. What a great find Eric.

It is a Jubea hybrid. Pure Jubeas don't grow in Florida. I would love to hear from the Floridian who can prove this wrong...

[Eric in Orlando]

We used to have a Jubaea at Leu Gardens, it was about 7ft. tall. It was grown from seed by Mulford Foster, the famous plant/bromeliad explorer. He lived just NW of Orlando and had this palm growing at his place. In 1984 it was sold and moved to Leu Gardens (this was before I was here). I started in 1992. The palm had a small cavity just under the crown. It grew healthy but would get some monor fungal spotting in the summer. The cavity kept getting bigger and about 10 years ago the crown broke off. I think it might have been damaged when it was moved here.

Here it is in 1986, photo made from a slide. It wasn't much taller when it died. When it was moved here it was supposedly about 50 years old so had been growing since around 1934 !!!

this was taken in 1987, the inflorescence

[Alberto]

Eric,I think the first ´´Jubaea´´in this topic is closer to a pure Jubaea than this last passed over one.....

[Eric in Orlando]

Attached is an article from the Orlando Sentinel newspaper, May 5, 1984

DOC090711.pdf

[M@ximus]

  On 9/7/2011 at 10:46 PM, Eric in Orlando said:

Attached is an article from the Orlando Sentinel newspaper, May 5, 1984

Thanks Eric!! Beautiful pics !!

This confirm that Orlando area could be to be the "positive" limit for grow Jubaeas in Florida

I think that the Jubaea in Leu gardens, died for the relocation, and maybe with a little more care , it could be still alive

Best M@x

[Nigel]

  On 9/7/2011 at 10:23 PM, Alberto said:

Eric,I think the first ´´Jubaea´´in this topic is closer to a pure Jubaea than this last passed over one.....

The spathe on this leu gardens one does not seem to be covered in the dense brown tomentum. I am guessing the floridans were sowing thousands and thousands of seeds in their quest to grow the palm and the odd survivor ( being a hybrid) was popping up.

[Nigel]

  On 9/8/2011 at 10:07 AM, Nigel said:

The spathe on this leu gardens one does not seem to be covered in the dense brown tomentum. I am guessing the floridans were sowing thousands and thousands of seeds in their quest to grow the palm and the odd survivor ( being a hybrid) was popping up.

As a further note, the leaves on the Leu gardens one are more plausible for me, still with some recurve which casts doubt but much shorter, more Jubaea like in colour, and less on a V plane . At the end of the day we need to use the official botanical description to classify any plant and if it doesnt fit there has to be a doubt, and neither of these Orlando palms fits the official description.

I guess it is possible the leu gardens palm was a badly stunted palm because of the climate. It is a pity the photo of the inflorescence is not better because a stamen count would easily settle the subject.

Edited September 8, 2011 by Nigel

[TimHopper]

I have a photo program that can be used to enlarge photo pixels, and then blend them for clarity. It appears that the above photo of inflorescence has flowers with 6 stamens. Tim

[dalmatiansoap]

  On 9/8/2011 at 12:42 PM, TimHopper said:

I have a photo program that can be used to enlarge photo pixels, and then blend them for clarity. It appears that the above photo of inflorescence has flowers with 6 stamens. Tim

Sorry, but can U explain that a bit for us that dont understand "talk of science"?