mulching dos and donts

[Stevetoad]

ive always bought the bagged mulch from home depot but thats gotten to costly. so now im getting a truck load of mulch dropped off by a tree service company next time there in my area. ive heard that you should wait about 3-4 months before you mix it into the soil but can i still use it as a top dressing without pulling to much nitrogen out of my soil? my soil is fairly heavy clay (1'x1' hole drains in 4-5 hours)in case that matters. i just dont want to have to leave a huge pile of mulch in my driveway for 4 months. any help would be great...thanks

[MattyB]

I have lot's of experience with this. Keep in mind that the tree services usually dump 10 yard loads. That's a lot for a residential lot. If your hole drains in 4-5 hours that's not bad. Sounds like your soil holds just the right amount of moisture and adding mulch is just gonna be awesomeness!. Mixing or tilling in organics is great, but really you can just top dress and let nature take it's course and it'll percolate in, in time. Like you said, only mix in compost, the well rotted black stuff. Do not mix in wood chips, only use that as mulch on top. The easiest thing that you can do is get some compost and spread a thin layer of that around first, then throw your tree trimmers mulch on top. That way you have a layer of the nutritious stuff at the bottom that will work it's way in and start benefitting your plants right away, and meanwhile the thick layer of mulch above will start the long process of rotting away and then your cycle has begun. Then, just keep adding your cheap tree trimmings on top. For your bottom layer of compost you can use the stuff available at the dump, horse manure, or the bagged cow manure (use less of this stuff since it's high in nitrogen) from the store.

[Stevetoad]

thanks for the advice. yeah there going to fill up my whole driveway. i can use a bunch of it but since my father in law live up the street from me were going to split it. how thick should i put it on? i was thinking about 2"...

[MattyB]

4" minimum. Do some fine tuning, pulling it away from the trunks and make sure they aren't burried, but pile it high in the spaces between. Go nuts and put 12" down in the blank spots if you can. It'll settle quite a bit in a few weeks and it'll decompose down too, obviously. 2" is a waste of time. Go big or go homeboy. You need 2" just to stop the sun and keep the lower stuff moist so that it rots properly and creates a nice environment for the microbes, worms and other beneficial critters. So 4" minimum, but you'll have to reapply pretty quickly if you only do 4", so get crazy with the cheese wiz.

[Dr. George]

We use a lot of mulch on our farm in Hawaii. In fact we are doing a 3 year mulching project in our orchards with USDA-NRCS support. I generally agree with Matt all the way with a couple of added comments:

If you are relying on natural rainfall (or overhead irrigation) to water the plants that are being mulched, the general rule is to not mulch more than 3" to 4" as a thicker layer of mulch may absorb and reduce the amount of moisture that gets into the soil. I don't consider this a problem if you are regularly irrigating by drip irrigation and your irrigation lines are under the mulch.

We apply our regular N-P-K with micros fertilizer to the soil around trees before mulching, then after mulching apply urea as a source of nitrogen to support the bacterial decomposition of the mulch to compost.

The rate of decomposition of the mulch to compost will be largely influenced by the nature and size of the mulch components. Wood chips are going to take longer than shredded vegetation (green waste).

Hope this is helpful - gmp

[Gonzer]

Steve, listen to Brother Matty as he speaks the truth. AND...remember, compost gets mixed INTO the soil, mulch does not.

[sur4z]

Every time I use the store bought bagged mulch, my dogs get ticks.

[Stevetoad]

Steve, listen to Brother Matty as he speaks the truth. AND...remember, compost gets mixed INTO the soil, mulch does not.

im soaking it up like a sponge. ive been to matts house and have seen how healthy his plants are. i still think theres a secret to mattys magic soil that hes noth sharing...

[MattyB]

Good point, Dr. George, about the thick mulch inhibiting overhead water from making it to the dirt. I didn't even think about that. Also, I like the idea of adding the urea to the mulch to nitrogen balance it. I do not irrigate with overhead watering but I've always though about throwing a very light sprinkle of Ammonium Sulfate on top of the mulch so when it does rain it gets mixed in. I forgot about that. I wanna try that this Winter.

[Trópico]

Does mulching with pine needles work as well? I've seen it in use at Sea World.

[realarch]

We use a lot of much in the garden, one for keeping the weeds down and to add to what little soil we have sitting on solid rock. We're lucky that the green waste here in Hilo, (which is the size of a small mountain), is mulched and made available free

to the public. It's so hot that we have to use those leather 'Mule' gloves to handle it. The weeds are now so much easier to control and with the abundant rainfall it breaks down beautifully. For my palms that generally need more fertilizer, I do

scrape the mulch back, apply it and then add the mulch back. Yep, 4" is the magic depth. We also let a few pick-up loads sit for six months or so and use it for potting and planting. Great stuff.

[MattyB]

Steve, listen to Brother Matty as he speaks the truth. AND...remember, compost gets mixed INTO the soil, mulch does not.

im soaking it up like a sponge. ive been to matts house and have seen how healthy his plants are. i still think theres a secret to mattys magic soil that hes noth sharing...

Go to the Big Island to learn the secret. Rock! Soil? We don't need no stinkin' soil!

[Gonzer]

Steve, listen to Brother Matty as he speaks the truth. AND...remember, compost gets mixed INTO the soil, mulch does not.

im soaking it up like a sponge. ive been to matts house and have seen how healthy his plants are. i still think theres a secret to mattys magic soil that hes noth sharing...

Go to the Big Island to learn the secret. Rock! Soil? We don't need no stinkin' soil!

Halleluja and Amen Brutha!

[MattyB]

mmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmm way to bring the witness Brother Gonz!

[peachy]

I am on black clay, so it drains a bit faster than yours does. Generally I mulch with lucerne hay, expensive but it improves the quality of the soil no end. As mulch breaks down it tends to rob the soil of nitrogen, so I put down my normal amount of fertiliser, on the soil, then sprinkle more on top of the mulch once its down then water it in. Usually I mulch loosely and thickly, as it soon settles to the right height. (about 14 cms is right for here)

[DoomsDave]

Ah!

A great topic!

Mulch, if you can.

I use wood chips, purchased from a dirt-dealer in La Habra for about $27.00 a cubic yard.

I've found that it works perfectly well about 1 - 3" deep, in keeping out weeds, and keeping the soil moist.

So far, no real problems with nitrogen deficiency. The wood chips (fir? eucalyptus?) don't rot fast enough to really change the Nitrogen balance that much.

For me, they last about a year before needing replacement.

If there's a large area, and I'm not concerned as much about looks, I use shredded palm fronds, 12" deep. Those are much looser, so it takes a lot more to work as mulch.

DON'T mulch with: fresh grass clippings, fresh manure, etc. Stuff like that rots HOT and can literally burn plants, or even you if you sit on it long enough. And, the odor, sho' 'nuff funky . . . . ("OW!" to quote James Brown) If you have that kind of stuff, let it rot till dark brown first, or at least till it stops steaming when you fork it up. What I do to accelerate the process is to make a big pile, about three feet high, then pile dirt (clay is best, or close-to-clay) on top of that to about 6" deep, then keep it moist, and zoom, down she rots, in a few weeks in the summer, the soil holds in the moisture, OW! The heat kills weed seeds.

Yeah yeah, going astray, but mulching and composting are inextricably intertwined.

And, now to go even further astray . . . .

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OW!

[Gonzer]

ow! HOT TUB!

[Tropicgardener]

I recently mulched my whole front garden area with mulch obtained from the council dump, they offer it for free and I find it to be pretty good......Yesterday and today I mulched the rear garden with course sugarcane mulch which I obtained from the local nursery. I have used sugarcane mulch for many years and used to get in for free when I lived in the sugarcane town of Bundaberg. It is a great for the soil and once it is broken down I cover it with 'dump' mulch. Once that breaks down I start the cycle again with more sugarcane mulch.

[joe_OC]

I have been applying 6"-8" of organic horse compost to my yard for the past four years. I don't mix it in the soil, I use it like mulch. I swear by it. My soil is much better now than it was when I first started.

[The Palm Nut]

Not much that I can add to this as there has been lots of good advice posted here. As a rule of thumb for those of you that want to emulate a rainforest environment use mulch that breaks down fast. And use it often.

Cheers

Mike

[rprimbs]

I don't really know that much about mulching and making compost, but when you're making compost don't you want a balance between "browns" (carbons) and "greens" (nitrogen)? So if you add nitrogen to your mulch won't it speed up the decomposition and turn it into compost? Would that make it warmer, like in a compost pile???

[The Palm Nut]

I don't really know that much about mulching and making compost, but when you're making compost don't you want a balance between "browns" (carbons) and "greens" (nitrogen)? So if you add nitrogen to your mulch won't it speed up the decomposition and turn it into compost? Would that make it warmer, like in a compost pile???

Yes

[pogobob]

I go out to the hills and fill my truck up with oak leaf mulch, the results scream for themselves!

[Walter John]

Mulching has many benefits, not just for breaking down and improving the soil. that's it, that's all I have to say about that.

[ariscott]

I use hay.... just because it is easier to spread. Last time we used forest mulch, it almost did Scott's back in. We don't have tractors, and lugging a few cubic m of forest mulch in wheelbarrow using shovels can be damaging to your back. So, we are back to hay. The only time we use forest mulch is when we are setting up new garden beds...

We spread forest mulch... get the worms moving in before planting. A few months later, we start planting... and hay on top. It is amazing what happen to the soil compared to the ones without mulch... And don't I wish mulch was free.....

Regards, Ari

[Walter John]

I use hay.... just because it is easier to spread. Last time we used forest mulch, it almost did Scott's back in. We don't have tractors, and lugging a few cubic m of forest mulch in wheelbarrow using shovels can be damaging to your back. So, we are back to hay. The only time we use forest mulch is when we are setting up new garden beds...

We spread forest mulch... get the worms moving in before planting. A few months later, we start planting... and hay on top. It is amazing what happen to the soil compared to the ones without mulch... And don't I wish mulch was free.....

Regards, Ari

Hi Ari, I used hay this weekend as my mulch for new plantings. Bales were $7 each. Up here I can't get those big rolls of sugar cane mulch.

[ariscott]

How big are the bales? It is $4.20 here.

[Moose]

I am in agreement with Matty's comments. Mulch also keeps the roots cooler in the summer and warmer in the winter.

Historically I kept 2-4 inches of mulch around my palms. Last Spring I acquired from the municipal free mulch pile 1700 cf of mulch and spread it around my plants.

The benefits are amazing and all it cost was time and gas.

[Mayitin]

I've seen palms mulched thickly all the way up to the trunk in all places from private to public ,incuding gardens like Fairchild. Is this a common practice?

[NApalm]

I don't know if it's common practice. I'm always cautious and leave a 10cm gap around the trunk of my palms. But some pretty knowledgeable palm people have told me to mulch right up to the trunk. I don't have the guts. Haha

[Tomw]

Like what Dr. George said I also apply fertilizer prior to mulching.

[Jeff Searle]

I use nothing but the free tree trimmings. There's no way I could afford to buy bag mulch for 2 acres. The gentleman always knows to bring clean mulch, meaning no chunks of wood limbs and no palm leaves. It's almost always great stuff, more chips than shreaded wood peices. It's probably about 8-10 yards when he brings me a load.

[Jerry@TreeZoo]

Anybody else have a problem with mulch mold spores? If a tree trimming pile of mulch sits for a few days or a week, and you don't know how long it has been in the tree trimmer's truck, it starts to decompose. Most of the decomposition organisms are fungus. If you start taking out of the pile you see steam and mold spores rising from the pile and your pitchfork. I have to wear a dust mask and even then sometimes get sick from breathing it in. It is always the next day I have an upper respiratory thing going on.

[Moose]

Anybody else have a problem with mulch mold spores? If a tree trimming pile of mulch sits for a few days or a week, and you don't know how long it has been in the tree trimmer's truck, it starts to decompose. Most of the decomposition organisms are fungus. If you start taking out of the pile you see steam and mold spores rising from the pile and your pitchfork. I have to wear a dust mask and even then sometimes get sick from breathing it in. It is always the next day I have an upper respiratory thing going on.

I get a bit of sinus action going when I spread the municipal mulch. It has been sitting around for awhile so it has the active microbes doing their thing. Last night we got a decent amount of rain. I love the color of the municipal mulch when its moist.

[Stevetoad]

that looks really good moose!

[DoomsDave]

ow! HOT TUB!

OW! Hot PLANTS!

Blow your mind!

[Moose]

that looks really good moose!

Unfortunately with the amount of rain we receive, my heavy mulch breaks down rather quickly. 12" is reduced down to 4" in a years time. Planted some crotons today, and you can see a vast improvement in the organic composition of the soil.

[_Keith]

Mulch breaks down here at the same rate here, but it is amazing after a few years of just putting mulch on top of the soil with no mixing in, will change the texture of the soil. beneath.