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Dypsis into the wild for ID

olivier971

By olivier971
in DISCUSSING PALM TREES WORLDWIDE

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olivier971 Mentor

olivier971

Posted
Posted

I took those pictures not far from Andasibe.

If someone has an idea please ..

GBPIX_photo_515119.jpg

GBPIX_photo_515120.jpg

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GBPIX_photo_515122.jpg

I was thinking at D mananjarensis, but not sure at all ..

  • Upvote 1

Olivier
My Flickr Album
Palmeraie Union Society - Ti-Palm' Society

LJG Grand Master

LJG

Posted
Posted

If it is really a wild palm and not something that was cultivated, then there are not many choices it could be according to POM. Either that or it is something new.

Len

Vista, CA (Zone 10a)

Shadowridge Area

"Show me your garden and I shall tell you what you are."

-- Alfred Austin

olivier971 Mentor

olivier971

Posted
  • Author
Posted

YES Thank you, it may be D. tsaravoasira

Here is other pictures also taken near Andasibe.

Could this one be D. mananjarensis ?

GBPIX_photo_515144.jpg

GBPIX_photo_515071.jpg

GBPIX_photo_515072.jpg

Olivier
My Flickr Album
Palmeraie Union Society - Ti-Palm' Society

bgl Grand Master

bgl

Posted
Posted

Olivier,

Great photos of beautiful palms! Thanks a lot! :)

Bo-Göran

Leilani Estates, 25 mls/40 km south of Hilo, Big Island of Hawai'i. Elevation 880 ft/270 m. Average rainfall 140 inches/3550 mm

 

BS Man about Palms Grand Master

BS Man about Palms

Posted
Posted

2nd one does have a manajarensis look to it... :)

GREAT pix in habitat too! thanks!

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

Cedric Experienced

Cedric

Posted
Posted

Oooh so enticing, dare I ask any more er um palms in the area biggrin.gif

Cerdic

Non omnis moriar (Horace)

Moose Grand Master

Moose

Posted
Posted

Olivier - great to see habitat photos. :drool:

Any habitat data? Soil type, rain fall, elevation, temperature range? Can't see any seedlings in these photos, are these palms regenerating? :)

Coral Gables, FL 8 miles North of Fairchild USDA Zone 10B

Gtlevine Grand Master

Gtlevine

Posted
Posted

They are not manajarensis, manajarensis comes from much further south and the meally bug pattern is more pronounced. I saw manajarensis in habitat and there is no mistaking it. I would also guess tsarovoisara.

GAry

Rock Ridge Ranch

South Escondido

5 miles ENE Rancho Bernardo

33.06N 117W, Elevation 971 Feet

  • 2 weeks later...
olivier971 Mentor

olivier971

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Olivier - great to see habitat photos. :drool:

Any habitat data? Soil type, rain fall, elevation, temperature range? Can't see any seedlings in these photos, are these palms regenerating? :)

Lateritic soil, at 1000-1200 m alt, 1700 mm rain /year, temp : 10 - 27 °C (18°C average)

I didn't see any of these palms adults withs fruits or seeds

  • Upvote 1

Olivier
My Flickr Album
Palmeraie Union Society - Ti-Palm' Society

olivier971 Mentor

olivier971

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I would also guess tsarovoisara.

GAry

according to me, the 2 specimens are differents. The form of the crownshaft is very different, and the second one is much more massive ..

But not sure ...

  • Upvote 1

Olivier
My Flickr Album
Palmeraie Union Society - Ti-Palm' Society

richnorm Grand Master

richnorm

Posted
Posted

At that altitude it could be oropedionis.

Pedro 65 Grand Master

Pedro 65

Posted
Posted

Oliver,the very 1st pic ( not any of the others) looks very much like Ampasindavae thats been battered by wind, would be great to see more of the lower crownshaft and trunk of the first pic, is that possible? Heres a few pics from here of Ampasindavae . Thanks for the habitat shots, keep em comn. Pete :)

post-5709-003741900 1333224127_thumb.jpg

post-5709-061495100 1333224134_thumb.jpg

post-5709-029232900 1333224141_thumb.jpg

post-5709-076101100 1333224148_thumb.jpg

edric Grand Master

edric

Posted
Posted

Oliver,the very 1st pic ( not any of the others) looks very much like Ampasindavae thats been battered by wind, would be great to see more of the lower crownshaft and trunk of the first pic, is that possible? Heres a few pics from here of Ampasindavae . Thanks for the habitat shots, keep em comn. Pete :)

Hi Pete, I don't think any of the photos are Dypsis ampasindavae, heres a couple of the close ups, too skinny, plus only the first photo has a stitch of white in the crownshaft, and that's probably because it is in lower light conditions, still being so close to the ground with all of those bushes, Ed http://www.rarepalmseeds.com/pix/DypAmp.shtml

MOSQUITO LAGOON

Oak_Hill.gif

Pedro 65 Grand Master

Pedro 65

Posted
Posted

Oliver,the very 1st pic ( not any of the others) looks very much like Ampasindavae thats been battered by wind, would be great to see more of the lower crownshaft and trunk of the first pic, is that possible? Heres a few pics from here of Ampasindavae . Thanks for the habitat shots, keep em comn. Pete :)

Hi Pete, I don't think any of the photos are Dypsis ampasindavae, heres a couple of the close ups, too skinny, plus only the first photo has a stitch of white in the crownshaft, and that's probably because it is in lower light conditions, still being so close to the ground with all of those bushes, Ed http://www.rarepalmseeds.com/pix/DypAmp.shtml

Ed, the pic on rarepalmseeds looks nothing like the Ampasidavae here or Loweys or like any I have seen in Oz or like any pics i have seen from Hawaii either, anyone else like to comment on the pic from RPS? ( Maybe, they eventually look like that?) Heres another pic of the lower crownshaft and trunk showing some white. I would like to see a lower shot of the 1st pic Oliver took. Pete

post-5709-019983800 1333229603_thumb.jpg

BS Man about Palms Grand Master

BS Man about Palms

Posted
Posted
:blink: I agree Pete. That RPS pic looks different... Either the pic itself was stretched or something... :hmm:

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

richnorm Grand Master

richnorm

Posted
Posted

:blink: I agree Pete. That RPS pic looks different... Either the pic itself was stretched or something... :hmm:

One explanation is that the RPS ones are ampasindavae and the ones we are all growing from that seed from back in the 1990's is something different, something from much higher altitude.

Pedro 65 Grand Master

Pedro 65

Posted
Posted

:blink: I agree Pete. That RPS pic looks different... Either the pic itself was stretched or something... :hmm:

One explanation is that the RPS ones are ampasindavae and the ones we are all growing from that seed from back in the 1990's is something different, something from much higher altitude.

Rich, one musnt forget how we all discovered the that plants grown in the 1990s are actually Dypsis Ampasindavae. From Jeff Marcus sending inflorescence to Kew for identification, his palms are the same as the pics i posted(larger of course) :)

richnorm Grand Master

richnorm

Posted
Posted

I hear you Pete but it would extraordinary if the distribution of ampasindavae stretched from sea level in the north to 1200m in the centre. If I remember correctly, according to PoM the only large Dypsis to get so high are decipiens, ambositrae and oropedionis. Clearly it is not the first two but it does look superficially similar to the picture of oropedionis in PoM to a botanical idiot like me.

Pedro 65 Grand Master

Pedro 65

Posted
Posted

I hear you Pete but it would extraordinary if the distribution of ampasindavae stretched from sea level in the north to 1200m in the centre. If I remember correctly, according to PoM the only large Dypsis to get so high are decipiens, ambositrae and oropedionis. Clearly it is not the first two but it does look superficially similar to the picture of oropedionis in PoM to a botanical idiot like me.

Rich, I didnt actually read till now at what elevation and where the shots were taken so in saying that , if Ampasindavaes closest sp is Tsaravoasira, then Tsaravoasira it is for me. Also, many things are possible , Justin took a spectacular shot of Masoala M, way out of its "said to be zone" . Along with many many "New" palm discoveries,the most famous beingTahina, but until the "New" edition of POM is available, we wont hear or see much ( makes you want the book more thats for sure :) . With the recent news on seeing "Robusta" in the wild, ive heard that are finally closing in on the elusive "Bejouf" :D edit..i still thinkRPS needs to upload a better pic

of Ampasindavae

olivier971 Mentor

olivier971

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Sorry, but it was impossible to go close to the specimen of the first picture. According to me, it's the same species that those of the following photos (except the last one), in habitat they were very closed, less than 2 or 3 kms.

Quite sure it's not D ampasindavae, this species is not knomn from this area (it's from the North-West)

Olivier
My Flickr Album
Palmeraie Union Society - Ti-Palm' Society

edric Grand Master

edric

Posted
Posted

Sorry, but it was impossible to go close to the specimen of the first picture. According to me, it's the same species that those of the following photos (except the last one), in habitat they were very closed, less than 2 or 3 kms.

Quite sure it's not D ampasindavae, this species is not knomn from this area (it's from the North-West)

Hi Oliver, I agree, all the species in photos posted on this thread including Pete's, are the same species, and the last photo too, I think the one in the last photo only looks different because of the heavy brush that it has been covered by all its life, which in Florida would have done nothing but keep it from getting sunburned, for instance full sun in Hawaii is like moderate Oak cover in Florida, RPS photos are a different species, and yes Pete I agree, but according to Dean, tsaravoasira is no longer a valid name, Ed http://www2.palmpedia.net/wiki/Dypsis_tsaravoasira

MOSQUITO LAGOON

Oak_Hill.gif

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