Euterpe 'espiritosantensis'

[Hammer]

Good news, the wife and I have a new home under contract. Pretty exciting stuff. So I am beginning to plan my garden.

I am wondering what anyone might know about the Euterpe 'espiritosantensis'. For instance, how well they grow in SoCal, their growing requirements (water, light, fertilization, temp) and so on? Previous PT threads don't appear to have a lot of concrete information on this palm. Conventional wisdom seems to state that this palm may be hardier than E. Edulis.

I love the pictures I have seen online (http://www.pacsoa.org.au/palms/Euterpe/espiritosantensis.html). I WANT some for my garden!!!

Does anyone know where I can pick up a few? What is a good price? I want to be sure I get the genuine article. I've seen some people say it is the same as the Orange Crown Shaft. I'm not so sure it is.

Any advice would be appreciated.

[Darold Petty]

I purchased four plants from JD Andersen, a few years ago. One promptly died. I planted the largest remaining one (5-gallon pot) several months ago. Even though the stem was about 2 inches thick at the soil line, the roots had not knitted up the pot volume, and half the pot volume of medium fell away as I removed the palm from the pot. It had four good leaves, 2 died suddenly, and the plant now has one leaf and a spear. Palms #3 and #4 are nearly ready to shift from a 2-gallon to a 5-gallon. This is a very marginal palm for my cool, humid microclimate. I am not optimistic about the long-term survival here.

[LJG]

I have had a similar experience to Darold. It does not handle the winters as well as E edulis. Also, I have one that has about 5 rings of trunk and not once have I seen any color to it when old leaf bases fall - of course that could come with age. I would stick to the Orange Crownshaft Euterpe as it is pretty even small and seems to handle cool weather a little better then Espiritosantensis.

[Hammer]

I tend to be less interested in the crownshaft color. To me that would be more of a bonus. I'm absolutely smitten with the E. Espiritosantensis' thin trunk and the full, weeping, deep green leaflets. They look unbelievably stunning in photos.

I haven't seen any Euterpe specimens in person. So it is impossible for me to judge which of the E. Edulis varieties is closest to the Espiritosantensis. Open to some perspective on this.

Why is it that no matter where you live..."the coolest looking palms don't grow here."

[richnorm]

I only have one yellow and about a dozen orange but the yellow is doing best and at least as well as standard edulis. I find the standard edulis in cultivation never seem to have the droopy look seen in habitat photos. Go for gold hammer!

[LJG]

I only have one yellow and about a dozen orange but the yellow is doing best and at least as well as standard edulis. I find the standard edulis in cultivation never seem to have the droopy look seen in habitat photos. Go for gold hammer!

In pots or in the ground? I think you will find them more challenging once in the ground and they have to struggle with cold winter soil.

Hammer, I would certainly try one. My observations come from a small data collection (one plant ). Go see Dan Andersen, that is where I got mine a while back.

[Hammer]

Most likely in the ground. The spot I'm thinking I'll put it/them is in the corner of two concrete block walls near a swimming pool. It currently gets a lot of sun in that spot. So that will be a concern at first. Shade cloth and soil amendments will probably be really critical.

Here's a picture. It isn't very good but we haven't moved in yet so it is the best I can post for now.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Hammer

[richnorm]

I only have one yellow and about a dozen orange but the yellow is doing best and at least as well as standard edulis. I find the standard edulis in cultivation never seem to have the droopy look seen in habitat photos. Go for gold hammer!

In pots or in the ground? I think you will find them more challenging once in the ground and they have to struggle with cold winter soil.

The yellow was planted out six months ago, and you are right, it is not going as well as it did last winter when in the shadehouse. However young edulis can get really tatty here in winter so still hopeful and it is still better than some of the orange ones in the shadehouse. We have had a really cold start to winter this year though last year was also a shocker and remained mint. Here's a pic I took yesterday as part of my annual inventory. It's a little yellowed by the gloomy winter light, about 3 feet tall.

[Hammer]

I only have one yellow and about a dozen orange but the yellow is doing best and at least as well as standard edulis. I find the standard edulis in cultivation never seem to have the droopy look seen in habitat photos. Go for gold hammer!

In pots or in the ground? I think you will find them more challenging once in the ground and they have to struggle with cold winter soil.

The yellow was planted out six months ago, and you are right, it is not going as well as it did last winter when in the shadehouse. However young edulis can get really tatty here in winter so still hopeful and it is still better than some of the orange ones in the shadehouse. We have had a really cold start to winter this year though last year was also a shocker and remained mint. Here's a pic I took yesterday as part of my annual inventory. It's a little yellowed by the gloomy winter light, about 3 feet tall.

Thanks for posting that picture. It gives me some hope but makes me realize just how much patience this one will take.

[richnorm]

I only have one yellow and about a dozen orange but the yellow is doing best and at least as well as standard edulis. I find the standard edulis in cultivation never seem to have the droopy look seen in habitat photos. Go for gold hammer!

In pots or in the ground? I think you will find them more challenging once in the ground and they have to struggle with cold winter soil.

The yellow was planted out six months ago, and you are right, it is not going as well as it did last winter when in the shadehouse. However young edulis can get really tatty here in winter so still hopeful and it is still better than some of the orange ones in the shadehouse. We have had a really cold start to winter this year though last year was also a shocker and remained mint. Here's a pic I took yesterday as part of my annual inventory. It's a little yellowed by the gloomy winter light, about 3 feet tall.

Thanks for posting that picture. It gives me some hope but makes me realize just how much patience this one will take.

Yep, a primo spot like that might better suit a guaranteed performer like Dypsis onilahensis. At least you are not going to make the mistake of planting all the best sites with common species before realising you have the collector gene! cheers

Rich

[amazondk]

This Euterpe grows in the area of Espirto Santo state of Brazil which is north of Rio de Janeiro. The Euterpe edulis grows futher south and actually is found in sub tropical areas of Brazil. Even though the E. espiritosantensis grows in mountanous areas I do not think it ever gets below freezing there. So, I do not think that this would be a good performer in your climate. The E. edulis would be better. | would like to try this euterpe here. I think it would probably do ok in my climate here on the equator.

dk

[Hammer]

This Euterpe grows in the area of Espirto Santo state of Brazil which is north of Rio de Janeiro. The Euterpe edulis grows futher south and actually is found in sub tropical areas of Brazil. Even though the E. espiritosantensis grows in mountanous areas I do not think it ever gets below freezing there. So, I do not think that this would be a good performer in your climate. The E. edulis would be better. | would like to try this euterpe here. I think it would probably do ok in my climate here on the equator.

dk

What's the typical daily high and low temps up in those mountain?. I assume a cool cloud forest type environment? Is there much seasonal variation in temps there? The good news for me is that my new place has a pool (as you saw), It is protected from the hot dry Santa Anas, it is about 5 to 6 miles from the coast and gets a predominantly coastal influenced climate and it is a about 200 feet higher in elevation than where I am now (it is about a mile between the new and old place). We get an occasional frost but never a real freeze in my 7 years here. I'm optimistic that the new place may treat marginal plants kindly.

[amazondk]

The Coastal Range - Serra do Mar, in that part of Brazil at an elevation of 700 to 1000 meters would not be considered a cloud forest as along the Andean mountains as they drop into the Amazon Basin. There is a seasonal variation where I imagine that the temperatures get into the 40´s F sometimes. The daytime temperatures should range in the 80´s F most of the time. Check out the weather information for Petropoiis, Rio de Janeiro on Accuweather and you will get a pretty good idea of the winter weather data. Petropolis is 845 meters above sea level.

dk

[amazondk]

http://www.accuweather.com/en/br/petropolis/35556/weather-forecast/35556

Here is the accuweather for Petropolis today. I am not sure if this palm is found in the forest around Petropolis. But, they should be found not too far away as Petropolis is not too far from the border of Espirito Santo. There is a cold front moving across southern Brazil and this is causing quite a bit of rain in the region. Up where I live the dry season has started and the weather is much drier and the heat is on.

dk

[palmsOrl]

Bump... I had really been wanting a Euterpe espiritosantensis based on pictures I had seen of a palm in habitat that I thought rivaled Cyrtostachys renda in beauty. Last fall, a local palm vendor had Euterpe "orange crownshaft" for sale at a palm sale in South Florida. I bought one, believing it to be synonymous to Euterpe espiritosantensis. Are these two palms one in the same? If not, I will look to buy an actual Euterpe espiritosantensis.

The Euterpe orange crownshaft itself promises to be a beautiful palm. It is basically a 4 foot tall seedling with less than a 1'' thick trunk and already the stem is almost completely orange.

[Hammer]

Bump... I had really been wanting a Euterpe espiritosantensis based on pictures I had seen of a palm in habitat that I thought rivaled Cyrtostachys renda in beauty. Last fall, a local palm vendor had Euterpe "orange crownshaft" for sale at a palm sale in South Florida. I bought one, believing it to be synonymous to Euterpe espiritosantensis. Are these two palms one in the same? If not, I will look to buy an actual Euterpe espiritosantensis.

The Euterpe orange crownshaft itself promises to be a beautiful palm. It is basically a 4 foot tall seedling with less than a 1'' thick trunk and already the stem is almost completely orange.

picture please!!! We all want to ooo and ahhh.

[NApalm]

Hammer, did you put one in ground in the end? Pics?

[chris78]

I have had a similar experience to Darold. It does not handle the winters as well as E edulis. Also, I have one that has about 5 rings of trunk and not once have I seen any color to it when old leaf bases fall - of course that could come with age. I would stick to the Orange Crownshaft Euterpe as it is pretty even small and seems to handle cool weather a little better then Espiritosantensis.

I had an Orange Crownshaft Euterpe that I had growing in a bog garden, it took the cool weather just fine, but loss it when it dropped to 26F in 2010... It had some life to it that spring but never recovered... My E. edulis has taken down to 25F in the same bog garden with 60% damage but is recovering quickly this spring already....

I would like to try another Orange Crownshaft Euterpe some day!!!

[cobra2326]

Bump... I had really been wanting a Euterpe espiritosantensis based on pictures I had seen of a palm in habitat that I thought rivaled Cyrtostachys renda in beauty. Last fall, a local palm vendor had Euterpe "orange crownshaft" for sale at a palm sale in South Florida. I bought one, believing it to be synonymous to Euterpe espiritosantensis. Are these two palms one in the same? If not, I will look to buy an actual Euterpe espiritosantensis.

The Euterpe orange crownshaft itself promises to be a beautiful palm. It is basically a 4 foot tall seedling with less than a 1'' thick trunk and already the stem is almost completely orange.

This is probably the same plant that Floribunda is selling under the same name. I have one in a 4" pot, and it's a pretty fast grower. Still not much color though. If you guys are really interested I can take a few photos of it.

[richnorm]

Orange crownshaft is a colourful form of edulis. Yellow crownshaft is now espiritosantensis. They are not the same palm but the seed was listed by RPS at the same time so that may have led to confusion. The leaf form is quite different, Yellow being vastly superior! Yellow is doing OK for me in-ground. Orange sucks in pots but we have had the driest summer in 50 years and Euterpe growth has been somewhat retarded. Shoved three Orange in the ground recently so will see if that helps them over winter. Euterpes don't seem to develop a good root system until planted for me. They start well in pots then go backwards. I've been holding off planting until they prove to be a little different but will lose plants if I don't get a move on.

cheers

Richard

[amazondk]

There is an euterpe native to these parts, Euterpe catinga that has an orange crown shaft. Their growing conditions are the same as the E. precatoria pretty much. There are some growing in a forested area around the airport of Manaus. They are in the same basic area as the green crown shaft E. prectoria.

dk

[Hammer]

Hammer, did you put one in ground in the end? Pics?

I have not yet. The spot I showed in pictures above I ended up using for a B. condapanna. Which promptly croaked in the cold weather. I have left it planted there holding out hope that it will some how rise from the compost heap. Next for that spot is a Dypsis onilahensis (upright form)as suggested above. It's sitting in a 2 gal. pot waiting for me to give up on the B. condapanna.

I'm looking for two better spots for a new B. condapanna and an Orange Crownshaft Euterpe. Still need to acquire both.

I'm thinking of maybe a double or triple of the Euterpe. Would look SO cool I think.

[MattyB]

If I can grow anything even remotely like E. precatoria I'll be so happy

[Hammer]

If I can grow anything even remotely like E. precatoria I'll be so happy

I couldn't agree more if I tried. So do we know of any species that has a fighting chance in SoCal? ...that looks like precatoria or espiritosantensis.

If I have kept this all straight the only two Euterpe that can make it in SoCal are Edulis and Orange Crownshaft, neither of which has the droopy/weepy leaves.

[palmsOrl]

I will definitely post a pick of my Euterpe orange crownshaft when I'm able to get a photo. Also, it occurred to me, could it be that the species with droopy leaflets require a climate with heavy rainfall to weigh down the leaflets? This may explain why specimens in Southern California (or some other locations in cultivation) do not tend to have the droopy leaflets like those in the wild.

[Darold Petty]

My plant of E. espiritosantensis slowly declined after ground planting. I removed it last month. This is not a viable choice for a heat starved microclimate.

[richnorm]

Couple of shots of mine in a slightly warmer climate than Darold's. Only 3 leaves this summer but still looks possible a year or so on from planting.

[Pedro 65]

Rich, yours is doing well and has good colour already..

Excuse the weeds but its been a "very wet few mnths and weeds are everywhere" heres 3 of 8 in ground , the thickest and tallest has very little colour..so far...All Euterpes on this thread are Edulis that have orange C/shaft not Espiritosantensis. Pete

[cobra2326]

Pete,

Those look a LOT like my Euterpe sp. 'Orange crownshaft' from Floribunda. Granted mine is much smaller, but it has the same basic green color with hints of orange in areas. I'm hoping it gets more and more orange with age. Yours definitely have more orange than mine, so it's definitely a possibility.

[richnorm]

For avoidance of doubt, mine pictured is "espiritosantensis" not the orange form of edulis.

[Pedro 65]

Pete,

Those look a LOT like my Euterpe sp. 'Orange crownshaft' from Floribunda. Granted mine is much smaller, but it has the same basic green color with hints of orange in areas. I'm hoping it gets more and more orange with age. Yours definitely have more orange than mine, so it's definitely a possibility.

Jon, Bill Austin has posted a pic of his which has great colour now and didn't from the start, Im sure mine and your will gain colour.

Rich, yours has the same thin leaflets as mine, Esperitosantensis have broader leaflets as below pic shows, looks closer to Olearacea than Edulis. I doubt Espiritosantensis would be an easy grow in the cold. Pete btw All Aussies buying Euterpes with a name of Espiritosantensis from FNQ...they are Edulis orange C/shaft.

Be great if Gileno Machado can chime here since he took the pic and has seen these in the flesh. Also Bill Austin, can you pls send an updated pic mate Cheers Pete

[Alberto]

Some 12 years ago i tried 3 E.espiritosantensis below the canopy of my forest. I brought this young palms from Rio de Janeiro. They grew for about 3 years but died after a harsher freeze.

[richnorm]

Well if mine isn't espiritosantensis then I have been ripped off by RPS because that was what it was bought as. I bought the orange form at the same time and they have grown and looked subtly different from the start. Espritosantensis grows at some altitude..... If mine ain't espiritosantensis then this is the straw which broke the camel's back as far as my relationship with RPS is concerned.

[palmsOrl]

Does anyone have any updates on how their E. espiritosantensis are doing?  Are these still available anywhere?

It occurred to me when looking at some photos here and elsewhere that this unidentified palm of mine might be Euterpe edulis "orange crownshaft".  It is certainly slow growing so far.

[richnorm]

The yellow/Espiritosantensis continues to make progress but no sign of the vibrant yellow or droopy leaves.  RPS sold me a lemon, and a green one at that! I don't think it is standard edulis though as there are leaf/ramenta differences and growth rate is much slower.  The orange form is a dead loss in my climate but a few linger on.

[palmsOrl]

Definitely does not look destined to color up.  Still a great looking palm though.  If not espiritosantensis, orange crownshaft or regular edulis, what is it?  Perhaps it is a green form of espiritosantensis.

[PortCharlotteCocos]

Could this species actually be Euterpe catinga?  See photo of Euterpe espiratosantensis vs. second photo Euterpe catinga.

[tim_brissy_13]

Bought mine from a now closed nursery in QLD as a tiny seedling about 5 years ago under the name E espiritosantensis. It is very slow in my less than ideal climate but seemingly happy and showing some nice colour already. It is clearly E ‘orange crownshaft’ as suggested above that all QLD seed at the time was turning out to be. 

[realarch]

On 5/16/2023 at 2:59 PM, PortCharlotteCocos said:

Could this species actually be Euterpe catinga?  See photo of Euterpe espiratosantensis vs. second photo Euterpe catinga.

Sadly the beautiful palm in the second photo  is now buried under 30’ (9m) of lava. 

Tim

[PortCharlotteCocos]

This was, in my opinion, the most beautiful palm at one point and based on the habitat photo, I think it is still a contender.  Thus, knowing the actual nomenclature is noteworthy to me.  Floribunda has it under the name "Euterpe catinga".