Imidacloprid

[Rafael]

Is imidacloprid advisable on small seedlings?

[Rusty on Pine Is.]

Rafeal, an interesting question.....i have no expirience in the matter, but i would guess no.

But for me there is a larger question...why do you need to use a neonicotiniod insecticide on seedlings?

Rusty

[Moose]

Rafeal, an interesting question.....i have no expirience in the matter, but i would guess no.

But for me there is a larger question...why do you need to use a neonicotiniod insecticide on seedlings?

Rusty

Its a synthetic nicotine. Probably would not hurt most seedlings. Would not chance it on rare stuff.

Rusty brings up a valid question, why on seedlings?

[Rafael]

Thats because they have the same mealy bug and scale problem.

[Jeff Searle]

I use alot of this on my crotons in pots. Even though it's not listed on the bag for container use. I seriously doubt you would have a problem, the question is, how much to use? it's always best to use some first on a small sample of seedlings and wait to see what the results turn out to be. If you use it, I would really be interested in your results. Please keep us inform if you do so.

Jeff

[George Sparkman]

I chemigate using it twice a year and have had no problems.

Happy growing,

George Sparkman

Cycads-n-Palms.com

[Jeff zone 8 N.C.]

I have used it on several types of palm seedlings as well as a lot of other plants and have had no problems. I can not tell you how much to use though as the instructions on how much to use are not exact on most packages. As a result I have just used what looked good to me for the plant. That means I have used various amounts instead of actual measures. I would say to just make sure the plants you are putting it on have been very well watered for at least 12 hours before you use it.

Edited July 16, 2012 by Jeff zone 8 N.C.

[Dypsisdean]

Maybe a dumb question - but are we talking about the granular or liquid?

[George Sparkman]

Hi Dean,

I use liquid and really don't know about granular. But I would think applying the correct dose of granular could be tough in very small quantities.

Happy growing,

George Sparkman

Cycads-n-Palms.com

[LJG]

Maybe a dumb question - but are we talking about the granular or liquid?

I treat numerous tropical's and some small delicate palms in ground that get hit with bugs each late spring/early summer (tis the season of aphids, mealy, whitefly, thrips and scale) and have never had an issue. I am not sure what I would do without the stuff to be honest. I used granular a few years back thinking it would slow release and there for last longer. Seems to me it didn't dose enough amounts and I did not work as effective as liquid. Now that is all I ever use. It takes time treating so many hibiscus for example, but soon after treatment the plants explode. It is amazing how much energy a plant loses in pest attacks.

[Phoenikakias]

Suggested dose is 1 cc/1 lt water. It is not phytotoxic at that rate, although I have applied it in many times greater dosage to cover section points, like in the case I separate a dead offshoot from the main plant, again with no phtotoxicity symptoms. I have also used it undiluted for endotherapy (because water is not a good solvent for that cause, ideal would be an alcohol from sugar cane) with no side-effect. This is however not the case if you use imidacloprid combined with other active substances such as chlorpyrifos or dimethoate, but in latter instance phytotoxicity is caused not by imidacloprid but by the other active substance especially when it is hot in the air.

[Ampli]

The past summer and at the beginning of the 2012 spring I used Imidacloprid on my seedling because of mealybugs infestation. By now all the seedlings are healty, so no more mealybugs and no signs of any chemical problem.

The species treated were:

-Two years old seedlings

Chamaerops Humilis

Livistona Chinensis

Rhopalostylis Sapida

One year old seedlings

Rhopalostylis Sapida "Oceana"

Rhapis Excelsa

Rhapis Humilis

Licuala Dasyantha

I used the liquid one with the dose reported on the bottle.

I hope this report will help.

[Moose]

Hi Dean,

I use liquid and really don't know about granular. But I would think applying the correct dose of granular could be tough in very small quantities.

Happy growing,

George Sparkman

Cycads-n-Palms.com

George - the granular comes in clay - looks alot like kitty liter. At 1/2 % solution, its very easy to calculate a correct dose. Three teaspoons on a three gallon plant gives me protection for at least 6 months or the entire growing season. The liquid I stay away from as a spill coud get expensive.

[MattyB]

Dumb question maybe, but aren't you killing all of your worms and beneficial microbes and fungi?

[Jeff Searle]

Matt,

Who knows? And who cares. When your trying to fight off vicious, attacking pest like scale,spiral whitfly and others, you do what you have to do. Besides, if we loose a little microbes and fungi, we can make up the growth with lots of rain and months of hot growing weather. And worms? Don't need them in the soil mix.

[LJG]

Dumb question maybe, but aren't you killing all of your worms and beneficial microbes and fungi?

How? It must be taken in from sucking or chewing (although direct contact works too I have found) the plant. While I have little fear of damaging worms and beneficial microbes and fungi, I do have fear of killing other beneficials like Bees. But limiting the use to once a year during the peak pest time (late spring/early summer for me) and then applying spot treatment of a direct contact killer to hit plants later in the season limits any real fears of damage in my opinion. But like Jeff said, without the stuff (and Spinosad) I have no idea how I could grow some of the things I do. I have 50 healthy Hibiscus in the ground. It simply would not be the case without Imidacloprid.

[Dypsisdean]

Here are excerpts from two studies.

http://www.beekeepin...oprid_bayer.htm

· Effects on earthworms

It is correct that imidacloprid is acutely toxic to earthworms. The sublethal effects shown in laboratory studies on e.g. sperm deformities or DNA damage must be seen in relation to exposure in the field. If these effects were relevant to natural conditions, they should also be detectable under practical conditions. Long-term field studies were performed under different agricultural conditions in which imidacloprid was applied over several years again and again. In no case did a long term-effect on earthworm populations occur. Thus, these laboratory-derived effects have no relevance to the field (due to lack of sufficiently high exposure or because they are not biologically relevant at the population level).

http://www.google.co...mFT-YWDVgSTKL1w

CONCLUSION: The results indicate that, when imidacloprid is applied as a systemic insecticide to the soil around

trees, it is likely to cause adverse effects on litter-dwelling earthworms if concentrations in the litter reach or

exceed about 3mgkg−1

[Dypsisdean]

So, I tend to agree with what some have already said. My ti plants were starting to look like crap from a leaf hopper that was causing spotting on all the older leaves. So I took a handfull or two of merit granules and scattered it around the immediate (12 inch) area of the root zone. I could treat 50 in-ground ti plants in 5-10 minutes - start to finish. Fast, neat, and hassel free - not like mixing and trying to spray fifty plants, some overhead. I hate spraying poison, especially overhead.

Now, six months later, the ti plants look great. And if (I say "if") I killed a few worms in the small area surrounding the main stalk of the ti plants - I have to consider it a fair trade. Some studies I read seemed to indicate that there were notable negative effects on microbial activity from long term heavy use. - the type of use that would treat large areas of crops, year after year. And there is some evidence of adverse effects on birds and bees. So I would keep that in mind, and mitigate those effects as much as possible.

IMO - while all these insecticides/fungicides are powerful and dangerous chemicals, so are all the medications we take when we get sick. It is the manner in how they are used, and the tradeoffs that have to be weighed, in determining whether they do more harm than good. Even fertilizer if used incorrectly can pollute waterways and kill plants, but we all use it.

[Gonzer]

Dumb question maybe, but aren't you killing all of your worms and beneficial microbes and fungi?

It's a systemic, not a topical product. Excellent stuff for all your dainties. I love it for Maidenhair ferns.

[George Sparkman]

Hi Dean,

I use liquid and really don't know about granular. But I would think applying the correct dose of granular could be tough in very small quantities.

Happy growing,

George Sparkman

Cycads-n-Palms.com

George - the granular comes in clay - looks alot like kitty liter. At 1/2 % solution, its very easy to calculate a correct dose. Three teaspoons on a three gallon plant gives me protection for at least 6 months or the entire growing season. The liquid I stay away from as a spill coud get expensive.

Moose,

I was thinking of 3"x9" pots being an issue with granular. Even if you get the calculation right you still have to get the stuff into the little pot.

[kahili]

George, you would just put about T of it on top and water. It takes a few days for the imidacloprid to leach out of the clay stuff and get into the soil. I don't like using Merit because it does leave a pasty wet clump on top, but its easy to just pick it up and throw it away. You don't mix it into the soil. You can, but its not necessary. I don't. Merit was supposed to be used outside for ground applications (top dress), but it does work in containers. It just leaves a mess on top

[David Clulow]

I find this is the only reliable treatment for scale. I had a terrible problem on both my cycads and adeniums and this systemic cured my problem. It is also highly effective against bee colonies. If you spray a colony, next day they will all be dead. We use 2cc per liter.

Incidentally the British Plant health people require an addition declaration on the Phytosanitary Certificate accompanying all plants imported into England to state:

ADDITIONAL DECLARATION :

PLANTS DIPPED IN IMIDACLOPRID 0.03% FOR 1 MINUTE

FULFILS ITEM 33, 34(A)(II)((II), 36.1©, 39, 40 & 46(© of PLANT HEALTH DIRECTIVE (2000/ 29/ EC)