Tibouchina mutabilis and granulosa

[bahia]

Anyone down south growing either of these Brazilian Atlantic Rainforest species in southern California, or know whether there are living plants in the landscape at either the Huntington, Quail or Los Angeles County Arboretum? For some reason I've been lusting after trying to grow there here in the SF Bay Area again, after once trying with T. granulosa from Kartuz years ago. Another Melastome from Columbia has been creating a bit of a stir on Facebook this past week, Meriania nobilis. Anyone know of any success with these in Los Angeles/Santa Barbara/San Diego? My thanks to the original photographer of this species in Sao Paulo!

[fastfeat]

I don't have any info on T. mutabilis, but I did have T. granulosa (from Kartuz) for several years growing in OC. I had it in a large tub of peat/perlite mix. Grew and bloomed reasonably well (easier than I thought) there. I usually overwintered it in the garage when temps approached freezing. It doesn't like cold wet feet and is not particularly well-adapted for Mediterranean climates, IMHO. I took this plant to FL years later where it was much happier. OTOH, T. urvilleana (which really reaches its peak in the SF Bay area, does poorly in FL by comparison.)

The best examples of T. granulosa (by far) are in Orlando area, where heat is adequate and soil is acidic. They'll reach tree status there, to maybe 20'/7m. Grows well in Miami heat, but dislikes limestone and nematodes, is rarely more than a large shrub there (and better in containers).

I don't know of any specimens of either species at CA arboreta.

[LJG]

I tried both the normal purple Granulosa and 'rosea' form from TT. Both never made it through a winter in San Diego. I think Ken is right about the cold wet feet thing.

If you are looking for a different Tibouchina to grow try to find Tibouchina urvilleana 'Athens Blue'. Unlike the others that grow in SoCal that get leggy and thin, this is a dwarf and full bush. It doesn't flower year round like the others but it explodes in late fall early winter.

[bahia]

Interesting to get this feedback. Have either of you grown T. organensis or T. heteromalla, both of which also do well here in the milder parts of the SF Bay Area? I wish there wad some good internet site that could give locations and elevations for various Brazilian species, because I'm willing to bet there is quite a bit of genetic/climatic range for species such as Tibouchina which grow over such large range of latitudes in the Mata Atlantica rainforests of southeastern Brazil. I'd really like to have a better sense of the regional extent of species such as T. urvilleana/heteromalla versus some of the other common species. It is a bit strange to know that both T. mutabilis, granulosa and lepidota grow well in Melbourne to Brisbane in Australia. I've always thought the climate in Melbourne is more similar to San Francisco in terms of winter lows and winter wet, so perhaps the hybridized T. granulosa and lepidota Australian forms have better winter wet/cold resistance than the straight species do. I've also experienced a bit of winter cold and even summer evening chill in the mountain habitat around Sao Paulo in Brazil, and can definitely say the range of cold isn't that different from here in the SF Bay Area. The biggest difference is the total annual heat, and that even in winter there the days warm up much more than they do here. It would seem to me that the climate in coastal southern California ought to be fine for these species, and perhaps dry air, Santa Ana winds, poor water quality/non-acidic ph might be the detrimental factors more than cold/wet soils over winter. Certainly room to explore the topic, but it seems there isn't the interest in this genus in southern California. I fully agree that T. urvilleana does and looks great here in the SF Bay Area, T. Athens Blue isn't as showy or nearly as vigorous. T. organensis is easy and showy here as well, but not all that common.

[LJG]

T. heteromalla grows fast for me. It gets too leggy and top heavy and needs to be cut back a lot. Odd about the dwarf Urvilleana not being vigorous. It is a great full bush that will be covered in purple two months out of the year for me. However I find standard Urvilleana to be a weedy looking plant.

I wish Granulosa grew for me. It is beautiful plant. I might try it again if I can get seed from someone growing it in Melbourne.

[fastfeat]

A source at The Huntington said that a T. granulosa grew there for about ten years before dying.

Supposedly, Weidner's Begonia Gardens in Leucadia has/had a large plant as well. You might contact them to see if it still exists.

[bahia]

Thanks for researching this a bit more, Ken! I also discovered that there is a source of seed for both T. granulosa and T. mutabilis direct from Brazil, via Mauro Peixoto and his web site, www.brazilplants.com, if anyone else is interested. I just knew that there must be some growers for these plants down in southern California. Still doesn't signify that they may be doable here in the SF Bay Area I suppose, but can't hurt to try...

[fastfeat]

My small T. granulosa (flanked by a one-off chartreuse Radermachera sinica and Cunonia capensis, amongst others) in Laguna Hills, circa 2005, prior to their cross-country trip to Dade Co.:

[fastfeat]

Interesting to get this feedback. Have either of you grown T. organensis or T. heteromalla, both of which also do well here in the milder parts of the SF Bay Area? I wish there wad some good internet site that could give locations and elevations for various Brazilian species, because I'm willing to bet there is quite a bit of genetic/climatic range for species such as Tibouchina which grow over such large range of latitudes in the Mata Atlantica rainforests of southeastern Brazil. I'd really like to have a better sense of the regional extent of species such as T. urvilleana/heteromalla versus some of the other common species. It is a bit strange to know that both T. mutabilis, granulosa and lepidota grow well in Melbourne to Brisbane in Australia. I've always thought the climate in Melbourne is more similar to San Francisco in terms of winter lows and winter wet, so perhaps the hybridized T. granulosa and lepidota Australian forms have better winter wet/cold resistance than the straight species do. I've also experienced a bit of winter cold and even summer evening chill in the mountain habitat around Sao Paulo in Brazil, and can definitely say the range of cold isn't that different from here in the SF Bay Area. The biggest difference is the total annual heat, and that even in winter there the days warm up much more than they do here. It would seem to me that the climate in coastal southern California ought to be fine for these species, and perhaps dry air, Santa Ana winds, poor water quality/non-acidic ph might be the detrimental factors more than cold/wet soils over winter. Certainly room to explore the topic, but it seems there isn't the interest in this genus in southern California. I fully agree that T. urvilleana does and looks great here in the SF Bay Area, T. Athens Blue isn't as showy or nearly as vigorous. T. organensis is easy and showy here as well, but not all that common.

I think some input from Australians on these species (and in what climates they thrive there) would indeed be useful here. Sadly, I can't offer any advice on this, but if someone wants to fly me out there....

Best of luck with your seed!