Concern about Mule Palm

[ecowolf]

Hi all. I am concerned about one of my big beautiful Mule Palms that I purchased and planted last year. I was installed around late June of 2012, so it has been in the ground not quite one year. I am in Atascadero, CA, our winter lows this year have dipped into the upper 20's occasionally, but mostly right at freezing, just for the night, and then always warming up to at least the 50's during the day. It was installed quite large, out of a 36" square box. It is about 8 feet tall with about a 1 foot average trunk diameter. We installed another one at the exact same time, placed about 15 feet from this one. The one in concern has just never done well since day one, always looking spindly, a bit pale, and just not very vigorous. At suggestion of several palm specialists, I removed much of the lower, older fronds upon installing. Now, this winter, it is looking really bad. The newly emerging fronds start to unroll, and then start to look frizzled on the tips, and then dry and brown, and then the whole frond just sort of stops growing. In addition, many of the fronds have brown, curled, dried tips, and all of the fronds in general look droopy, pale, yellowish, and just lame. I also notice that on some of the emerging fronds there are these black spots everywhere. Can anyone help? I know it is winter time and these things shouldn't look as good as they do when it is warmer, but the other one 15 feet away from it looks just fine and healthy. Oh, during the summer I fertilized them with Lutz palm maintenance spikes, and when they started looking bad, I added a couple of Manganese booster spikes as well. Pics included below. Thanks for everyone's time and effort.

Chris

[Walt]

I can't tell all that much from your photos, but perhaps there's some kind of fungal problem in the root system and meristem. That happened with some Washingtonia palms I bought (10 balled and burlaped from Home Depot). Every single one of them started to suffer and the new fronds were opening with necrotic tissue or brown dying tissue. I emailed Don Hodel and sent him photos. He advised me to give all of my palms a root drench and bud drench with Cleary's fungicide (and one other I can't recall now). Lo and behold it did the trick.

I don't know if this is the case with your mule palm, but perhaps you can email Don and send him photos. He might be able to advise you. Don has helped me with some of my palms numerous times.

Here's contact info for Don Hodel:

Donald R. Hodel

Environmental Horticulture Advisor

Specializing in Palms, Trees, and Landscape Management

University of California

Cooperative Extension

4800 E. Cesar Chavez Ave.

Los Angeles, CA 90022

USA

tel. 323-260-3405

fax 323-260-5208

[Mark Heath]

Hello Chris,

I produce and grow thousands of Mule palms.

I suspect that there is an air pocket meaning that the palm was not properly installed. That would be my guess. I would run a hose w/ high pressure around the rootball to see if there are any pockets because the roots in that pocket will decline and cause a lot of problems such as the ones that you are having.

Many people who do not have palm planting experience often do not water the palm as they are installing it, they just fill dirt around it and then water afterwords which is incorrect. Did you plant it or did you supervise the planting?

Please tell me if i am wrong in my guess in regards to your installation.

In my experience, i do not fertilize heavy until the palm has healed it's roots and growing new ones.

[ecowolf]

Thanks for those replies. I have sent an email to Donald Hodel. As for the installation, I was there. They did not water in as they went. I will definitely think about the water hose idea. Thanks!

[buffy]

I agree with the root concerns mentioned by Mark, but the newest frond looks like it is freeze damaged. Try to pull that spear out. Yank it good. If it pulls, pour some hydrogen peroxide down its throat and listen to the fizzle. My ultimate lows this season have only been around 27F, but we've had remarkable frosts and some frozen precipitation that successful gutted some pretty tough palms. Do what Mark mentioned, but don't let the heart rot out while the roots recover. Also, don't cut green fronds if you're not transplanting. I think the recommendation in this instance may be fine if you are indeed dealing with root problems.

[ErikSJI]

Sounds like it does not like where it is at to me. Move it. There is quite possibly something in the soil in that spot. Maybe when they built the pool some stuff was buried there. Possibly a small leak in your pool run off drain pipe when they planted it that is feeding the palm chemicals from the pool.

[ecowolf]

Again, thanks for all the feedback so far.

I tried the water hose, and nothing much seemed to happen. The soil they put in was a mix of sand and peat moss, specially designed for palms, and it was very fine, so I have my doubts about the air pockets, but it still could be that, I guess.

As far as freeze damage: do Mule Palms normally get this? I thought they could handle temps down into the teens.

As far as moving it, that isn't an option unfortunately. It weighed over 1,000 lbs in the box, and it is in an area that isn't accessible to heavy machinery. Getting it in involved mini-track loaders, 6 men, removing mature plants, cutting others down to the ground, and quite a bit of plant destruction. I wish I could move it though!

Edited February 3, 2013 by ecowolf

[Jim in Los Altos]

I doubt that is freeze damage. Mules are very cold hardy and may take temps in the teens and show little or no damage. Those frizzled fronds and spears look a lot like manganese deficiency. I know you treated the palm for that but you don't want to follow with maintenance fertilizer spikes until the definciency is alleviated. I've treated client's palms with this condition, sometimes in extremely grave shape, and brought them back. It's not uncommon in some CA soils.

[ecowolf]

Thanks Jim. Would it be okay to treat them now even with more freezes in store?

[ecowolf]

And are the spikes the way to go, or should I use a granular surface broadcast?

[buffy]

Educate me Jim: What about the damage, besides it being the newest frond, suggests a manganese deficiency? I've watched frizzle top in Queens, but to me that looks like a non-hardened frond damaged by cold. As for the posters comment about mules taking temps into the teens, sure they can, but there are a lot of factors that can work against you. New plantings, root stress, moisture. All these things can hurt your experience with cold. I don't claim any expertise, but I'm starting to build up a level of experience. Any insights would be appreciated.

[ecowolf]

If this is any evidence of the frost idea: The other mule that is 15 feet from it has no damage what-so-ever. There are also two Butias, and a Jubea all nearby with no damage at all.

[sonoranfans]

I also think its a mineral deficiency, probably chlorosis. Iron deficiency starts on newest fronds first and severe deficiency leads to necrosis. Chlorisis due to magnesium deficiency starts with older leaves, not the case here. An iron deficiency is usually treated with chelated iron, and it could be a soil pH issue as iron becomes unavailable biologically when pH rises too much. I suspect that Erics construction debris hypothesis might be correct as only one palm is effected. I would say that these mules arent as deep green as mine, perhaps soil treatment wouldnt hurt the "good" one. Drywall debris would raise pH... If that is the case, the site might kill that palm as you will not be able to treat the soil to overcome large construction debris composition, moving it might be the only chance. As Jim says it could include a manganese deficiency, which can also occur with a high soil pH. I had queens with that problem, but they didnt get so yellow, just brown, but it could be Mn as well as other traces like Fe. If the palm doesnt make it, I would remove the soil all around the area and replace to 3' deep or so.

As far as the cold, I have a small mule that was frosted good(28F) and it had an opening spear.... it laughed at the frost. Mule palms are some of the best cold tolerant feather palm choices, mine has been frosted several times when under 3'... NADA. they are however somewhat demanding of micronutrients... A good palm fert fixes that as long as the soil pH is OK.

Edited February 4, 2013 by sonoranfans

[Jim in Los Altos]

Educate me Jim: What about the damage, besides it being the newest frond, suggests a manganese deficiency? I've watched frizzle top in Queens, but to me that looks like a non-hardened frond damaged by cold. As for the posters comment about mules taking temps into the teens, sure they can, but there are a lot of factors that can work against you. New plantings, root stress, moisture. All these things can hurt your experience with cold. I don't claim any expertise, but I'm starting to build up a level of experience. Any insights would be appreciated.

Absolutely. Even if the palm in question was under some other stresses, upper 20's would still, IMO, not be nearly cold enough to cause any significant damage to a mule palm. Manganese deficiency often has affected more than one frond and the spear before it's noticed by anyone other than a seasoned palm fanatic. I also agree with Tom, that there is probably an iron deficiency since a manganese deficient palm will often still be mostly deep green and the mule palm is question is yellowing along with its frizzled fronds. At any rate, mule palms are usually hearty eaters and enjoy frequent feelings during the growing season, but winter feeding of iron and manganese, I think, this palm would benefit from either spikes or pellets.

[ecowolf]

Thanks to everyone. These are some great things to consider. I sort of doubt it is construction debris, as it is quite a ways from the house, uphill, on an uneven slope. Could be, but odds are pretty low I would think. Could just be a crappy soil spot too. That hill is notorious for crappy soil spots right next to wonderful soil spots.

If I wanted to supplement iron, what exactly would I need to buy, and where would I get it from?

Edited February 4, 2013 by ecowolf

[Jim in Los Altos]

Thanks to everyone. These are some great things to consider. I sort of doubt it is construction debris, as it is quite a ways from the house, uphill, on an uneven slope. Could be, but odds are pretty low I would think. Could just be a crappy soil spot too. That hill is notorious for crappy soil spots right next to wonderful soil spots.

If I wanted to supplement iron, what exactly would I need to buy, and where would I get it from?

Ironite pellet fertilizer is available at Home Depot, Orchard Supply Hardware, Lowe's, etc. and works well. It's available in 20lb. bags.

[ecowolf]

Great. Will give both a try. I've got some more Lutz Manganese spikes ordered, and I will pick up some Iron Fertilizer.

[WestCoastGal]

Have to say your mules in the first photo look like the majority of the queens in my area right now. I saw your photos the other day and drove down a few neighboring streets today and really that was pretty much all I saw--yellowed and sometimes browned edged fronds.

We have two older mature mules in our landscaping compared to yours right now, and they are both green and looking nice. I'd say we are in a similar weather area although we are on valley floor. We gave our palms a small amount of time-release palm fertilizer back in November (something our nursery had suggested doing each winter to help them get thru better) and made sure to water occasionally during the winter when it hadn't rained for a while and especially before a real cold dip in the mid- to high-20s. We haven't had to do much more. Haven't experienced a yellowing issue with them, although during one winter month last season I think it was, we had a lot of rainfall (just about every day during the month); and I noticed that later in the spring they were showing signs of a boron deficiency (newly emerging lightning bolt frond leaflets). We also hadn't mulched on top so are chalking the symptom up to those factors (natural boron in soil being leached out before tree could take it in--our fertilizer doesn't include any). A more normal rain pattern has seemed to have taken care of that issue and the symptom is only visible on older fronds.

Going back to the yellow condition however, I wonder if your mules have a stronger connection to their queen fathers and that's partially what explains the yellowness at this time of year. Both of our mules, I think, show a strong resemblance to their butia mothers in their fronds, one more so than the other, and maybe that in part is why ours haven't had a yellowing tendancy during the winter months. We're only 3 years into palms so it's just a guess on my part. Curious what others think.

Edited February 4, 2013 by WestCoastGal

[ecowolf]

Funny you should mention this, because I was wondering the exact same thing! This mule look almost identical to a queen, both in appearance, and in the symptoms of poor performance (we had a queen in the same spot before this mule). The other mule looks much more like a Butia and looks great!

[Perito]

Going back to planting, If the surrounding soil is dry and not enough water is given at planting, that dry soil can suck away the water from the roots fairly quickly. I like to fill the empty hole with water a couple times before planting and let it soak in. If the roots had suffered significantly, then the cold hit, it could cause some damage even though Mules take very cold temps. I'd be careful not to overdo the fertilizing, especially since nights are still cold in Atascadero and the roots really won't be absorbing much added fertilizer until the soil temps warm up.

[iamjv]

I don't have an answer for the cause of these ills but I can testify on Buffy's behalf, that I too have seen similar damage to the newest growth on Mules from temps in the mid 20s. So that is diffently possible and maybe one of, multiple issues, with this palm.

[oceandweller]

On 2/3/2013 at 6:00 PM, sonoranfans said:

I also think its a mineral deficiency, probably chlorosis. Iron deficiency starts on newest fronds first and severe deficiency leads to necrosis. Chlorisis due to magnesium deficiency starts with older leaves, not the case here. An iron deficiency is usually treated with chelated iron, and it could be a soil pH issue as iron becomes unavailable biologically when pH rises too much. I suspect that Erics construction debris hypothesis might be correct as only one palm is effected. I would say that these mules arent as deep green as mine, perhaps soil treatment wouldnt hurt the "good" one. Drywall debris would raise pH... If that is the case, the site might kill that palm as you will not be able to treat the soil to overcome large construction debris composition, moving it might be the only chance. As Jim says it could include a manganese deficiency, which can also occur with a high soil pH. I had queens with that problem, but they didnt get so yellow, just brown, but it could be Mn as well as other traces like Fe. If the palm doesnt make it, I would remove the soil all around the area and replace to 3' deep or so.

 

As far as the cold, I have a small mule that was frosted good(28F) and it had an opening spear.... it laughed at the frost. Mule palms are some of the best cold tolerant feather palm choices, mine has been frosted several times when under 3'... NADA. they are however somewhat demanding of micronutrients... A good palm fert fixes that as long as the soil pH is OK.

I agree entirely.  I planted two mules palms and had a small fire before hand there and it raised the soil PH I think to much.  I think it was around 7 and I probably pushed it to 9 and ran into the same thing.  I fertilized with a camellia fertilizer and they looked great for about 3-4 months.  I suspect its a PH issue.  I am thinking about adding a bag of peat as a groundcover so it will slowly work in the soil and maybe some oak tree leaves and or pinestraw to offset along with the low ph fertilizer.  I plan on getting the soil a little more in their favor via 4-6 mulch letting that decompose for 6 months then adding low ph fert and a thin weed barrier and 200$ worth of black beach pebbles.  I also wanted to add I have old concrete rip rap nearby and know that lowers the PH so you may have that leaching effect as well especially if you have a lot of concrete structures.  Have dealt with many a hydgrangia over the years and they don't know why they won't go blue, even with low ph, pennies, copper, etc. "ive done it but is insanely hard to adjust the ph on them".  I may also add some earthworms from the yard.  I'v ehad mine for a year and when I fertilized with the camila fertilizer they really greened up but are starting to yellow a little thought it was magnesium but I dosed with that first thing and didn't notice a difference.  they are 8 ft tall and I hand planted them and are 10 foot from the bay zone 9a Alabama with light to medium occasional frost.  10 feet away I have a 7 ft canary island date 'from the original canary islanders that settled here" that is super dark green from seed in that spot.