Hyophorbe indica

[Tyrone]

Here's a pic of a flower starting to form on one of my Hyophorbe indica's. It has been trying to form flowers for the last 3 leaves but aborted them every time. None were as big as this though, and I think this one may hold. Whether it actually flowers and produces viable seed is another thing, but if it does I will be very happy for the exceptionally fresh seed it would give me.

best regards

Tyrone

[Tyrone]

A closer pic

Do you think it will seed?? There's still a fare bit of warm weather left.

regards

Tyrone

[Kris]

Lovely Palm & fentastic close up shot !

thanks/Love,

Kris  

[Surf Guy]

Wow! Nice trunk! That is the red form, correct? Hope mine gets like that. Mike

[RainForestt Robert]

Tyrone, don't be too quick to remove the old leaf bases.  Early removal sometimes leads to the inflorescence aborting!

[Jeff Searle]

It looks a little small, but time will tell. What great colors, though.

Jeff

[Howeadypsis]

Nice colours! How big is the palm-Im guessing its a mature 'tree' planted out.

And is that area above the flower bud the crownshaft?

[Walter John]

(Trinidad! Bob @ Jan. 28 2007,02:13)

QUOTE

Tyrone, don't be too quick to remove the old leaf bases.  Early removal sometimes leads to the inflorescence aborting!

I learnt my lesson there, lost a couple. Looks too small to continue, on the other hand, I have never seek indica flower progress.

[Tyrone]

It turned the leaf sheath brown real quick and usually in the wind it will just drop off. I did help it, but it would of only held on for a couple of days more I reckon. It came off real easy. It may be too small to continue. Oh well...

As far as I know, this indica is the green form. It doesn't always have this amount of colour in it. But lately since it's been attempting to flower it really colours up.

regards

Tyrone

[Tyrone]

(Howeadypsis @ Jan. 27 2007,14:39)

QUOTE

Nice colours! How big is the palm-Im guessing its a mature 'tree' planted out.

And is that area above the flower bud the crownshaft?

It's been in the ground for about 4 years. The clear trunk is about 1.4m tall now. I planted it when it only had one ring. The crownshaft is the bit above the last ring.

regards

Tyrone

[ZoneTenNut]

I have a H. Indica flowering right now, but in the past the stalks dry up and never produce seed. Right now it looks great and here's a picture of it. Anyone have any ideas why the stalks would just dry up before producing seed? A nutrient deficiency, too little water, too much water?

[SubTropicRay]

Very Nice Tyrone.  Congratulations.

[chris.oz]

Well done Tyrone, if we could all plant one endangered  [ monoecious ] palm,  they may be spared from extinction.    For your interest there eare very few H. americaulis anywhere today. Kew scientists have suceeded  in introducing them back into cultivation.  Lets hope its a long term success

[Tyrone]

(Ray, Tampa @ Mar. 18 2007,21:23)

QUOTE

Very Nice Tyrone.  Congratulations.

That aint my fabulous palm Ray. That's Roger's from Florida. I wish it was mine though. My flower spike from the beginning of this thread has gone no further, but there is another one underneath the next leaf sheath. Every attempt it makes to flower gets a little further developed before it aborts. One day it will succeed. I hope.

regards

Tyrone

[elHoagie]

Tyrone,

There are some H. indicas at the San Diego Zoo that have what looks like viable seed on them.  So, I think it's possible at 32 degrees latitude...

Jack

[ZoneTenNut]

(Tyrone @ Mar. 19 2007,06:17)

QUOTE

(Ray @ Tampa,Mar. 18 2007,21:23)

QUOTE

Very Nice Tyrone.  Congratulations.

That aint my fabulous palm Ray. That's Roger's from Florida. I wish it was mine though. My flower spike from the beginning of this thread has gone no further, but there is another one underneath the next leaf sheath. Every attempt it makes to flower gets a little further developed before it aborts. One day it will succeed. I hope.

regards

Tyrone

Thanks for the credits Tyrone. Didn't mean to take anything away from your outstanding colored Indica. Was just looking for an existing thread to post my questions and it seemed to fit with this topic. I don't think that mine ever showed those colors.

Mine threw out premature flower stalks just like that and then when day, poof, this 1 1/2 to 2 foot spike just comes shooting out of the trunk. But the problem that I have had since then, is mine can't seem to follow through to mature seeds. The flowers open, the bees start buzzing all around and then it just starts to dry up and then fall off. It has done this for about a year to a year and a half. I'm hoping these will finally break through this barrier, but was wondering if anyone was having or had had this problem. Is is natural or is there some cultural requirement not being met? Any thoughts on it would be welcome.

Roger

[Tyrone]

Roger,

I love looking at photo's of any indica. Yours is stunning.

Have you only had one inflorescence emerge then dry up or has it been happening one after the other for a while? Some palms like Howea put out an all male inflorescence first time they flower, the next flower spikes being both sexes. Of course the first inflorescence will not set seed. I don't know if Hyophorbe does this though.

regards

Tyrone

[ZoneTenNut]

Tyrone,

I love these palms as well and especially the way the crownshaft bulges as it gets older. The inflorescenses been drying up one after another. Thats my concern.

As for the flowering, RLR & Paul Crafts Cultivated Palms says that the inflorescenses bear male and female flowers, but it didn't say if they were both on the same inflorescence. I read somewhere (maybe on this forum), that one of the reasons they were originally having difficulty getting viable seed on H. Amaricaulis, was that the lone survivor was not putting out an inflorescence with male flowers at the same time, when another inflorescence was putting out female flowers. Do you know if that is true and if so, I wondered if that applies to the whole genus and was what is happening, because I don't think I have had two flowering at the same time? But this is the largest number of inflorescenses I have coming out and looks like I'm going to get a couple flowering at the same time and if that IS true, maybe I'll finally get some viable seed. Here a pic of the whole group of inflorescenses.

[ZoneTenNut]

Wanted to bump this back up to the top. Anyone got any ideas, experience, or comments on this problem I'm having? Would really appreciate it.

Roger

[JD in the OC]

Roger,

I'm pretty sure these bear male and female flowers on the same inflorescence.  The problem is usually that the males open way before the females and end up aborting before they are able to provide pollen.  To circumvent this, you have to remove male pollen and store it until the females open, then pollenate by hand.

JD

[Tyrone]

(JD in the OC @ Mar. 24 2007,23:14)

QUOTE

Roger,

I'm pretty sure these bear male and female flowers on the same inflorescence.  The problem is usually that the males open way before the females and end up aborting before they are able to provide pollen.  To circumvent this, you have to remove male pollen and store it until the females open, then pollenate by hand.

JD

I'm glad I planted two in close proximity to each other. The second one is trying to flower now. When I bought them I wasn't sure that Hyophorbe were monoecious, so with this info I'm glad I did plant two. Hopefully they'll slightly be out of sync from each other, so I may get seed. If not I'll have to store pollen. Do the bottle and spindle do the same sort of thing?

regards

Tyrone

[ZoneTenNut]

JD,

Thanks for that. At least I know it is not something culturally that I'm not providing the palm and gives me some idea on how to proceed.

Roger

[Patrick Palms]

How fast does the Indica palm grow ?  Is it ok for Wind ? and warm dry conditions ?  And for around $100, what size palm, could I buy ?

[Steve Mac]

I think most of your questions are only relative to your area, but,

Mine grew fast, It is ok for wind and heat here.

I just got two flower spikes but judging from others experiences I'm not expecting them to amount to anything.

[Tyrone]

On 2/5/2020 at 10:28 PM, Patrick Palms said:

How fast does the Indica palm grow ?  Is it ok for Wind ? and warm dry conditions ?  And for around $100, what size palm, could I buy ?

Thanks for bumping this topic up. It was a real step back in time. The palms in the original post may actually be dead now. I know that one is. I rented the place out in 2014 and one tenant decided to keep the irrigation turned off for a whole summer before I realised what he'd done. (I moved 400km away) One palm was too far gone and the other wasn't far behind. Heartbreaking stuff. I got the garden cleaned right up after we evicted him and we then sold the place in 2018. Luckily the new owners loved the garden and so hopefully one is still going. Luckily for me I now have two trunking beautiful green ones down on my new property at 35S. I can't wait to see if they flower as well.

On the Canary Islands you will have no trouble at all. You are frost free which is just perfect. They don't need high heat to grow which is just great for me, but not so much of an issue for you as you are warmer than my area. They are a rainforest palm, so they love company such as other palms or gingers etc growing right amongst them. They love rich compost and nutrient rich soil as they come from volcanic Reunion Island and they also love good soil moisture that drains very well. They are not a boggy soil type of plant. They will rot if cold and wet. Part sun to full sun for part of the day suits them very well. They wouldn't be the most wind tolerant palm being a rainforest dweller but they are not the most delicate either. I get roaring winter winds here at 35S and they handle it but they are protected a bit by other foliage. Reunion gets cyclones so they must be able to take a bit of wind in their native environment at times.

As to where to get them I couldn't tell you. Maybe try them form seed. RPS has them from time to time. They germinate easily and grow strongly provided you don't get them too cold and wet when young.

There are two types. The green form that is more common and is in all the pictures on this thread so far, and the red form sometimes called southern form. They grow basically the same but have more colouring in the crownshaft and petioles. Worth growing for sure.

[Steve Mac]

Actually mate, I did not mention that those last two pics of mine , what little you can see of them (except the flowers) are of the red form.

I had both and could see very little difference in them, even when young. We ripped the 'green' one out, too crowded blah, blah, blah. 

The 'red' one which I could see little difference in, did grow markedly quicker than the bigger older 'green' one,

but with a sample of just one of each that observation I know is useless.  Also in my limited experience, the colouring difference was insignificant 

Still just for the record, the 'Red form' of mine was put in just meters from the many years older, meters taller 'green form' and was surpassing it in size in apparently no time at all.

(Obviously I do not have that typically Teutonic disposition for accuracy of time or dates or record keeping)

Anyway, basically what Tyrone said was right.

 

 

 

[Tyrone]

On 2/7/2020 at 7:39 PM, gtsteve said:

Actually mate, I did not mention that those last two pics of mine , what little you can see of them (except the flowers) are of the red form.

I had both and could see very little difference in them, even when young. We ripped the 'green' one out, too crowded blah, blah, blah. 

The 'red' one which I could see little difference in, did grow markedly quicker than the bigger older 'green' one,

but with a sample of just one of each that observation I know is useless.  Also in my limited experience, the colouring difference was insignificant 

Still just for the record, the 'Red form' of mine was put in just meters from the many years older, meters taller 'green form' and was surpassing it in size in apparently no time at all.

(Obviously I do not have that typically Teutonic disposition for accuracy of time or dates or record keeping)

Anyway, basically what Tyrone said was right.

 

 

 

From my experience of growing both forms from seed, the southern form may produce some regular green plants, some with mild colouring and some with vivid red to purple maroon colouring from almost the beginning. I used to have a really dark purple one at my house in Perth which I had to leave behind unfortunately. I will have to search for some pics but it definitely wasn’t green and did grow fast.

Ive just got a batch of southern form germinating now so I might be able to take some pics over time and compare individuals.

[Tyrone]

Here’s a pic of one of mine taken today after an old leaf boot fell off. Love the colouring at this point.

[Steve Mac]

On 3/20/2007 at 8:38 PM, Tyrone said:

"Of course the first inflorescence will not set seed"

This is correct for me too. Although attractive and big and white with a lovely long lasting fragrance, my first inflorescence was barren. But the second one seems to have set a few seeds. Now to see if they last, they are quite slow to develop. It is a 'Red Form'  with over 6' (2 metres) of trunk but the crownshaft still is redder than the normal green form.

[Tyrone]

I don’t want to show you my indicas now. They didn’t like the negative 2.5C temps I got on July 12. All leaves burnt back to the midrib. However they are both opening spears. I hope we get warmer and don’t get another horror frost. 

[Steve Mac]

Update on indica seeds, according to my pics back a bit, it flowered in February 2020, then set seed in August, and now the seeds have finally ripened. You can tell when they are ready they go bright orange and drop off. But they do take a while.  It is the 'Red Form' that I got from Colin Wilson.

This bunch is the third spike that the tree produced visible in the earlier shot back further. They are a a month or two behind the spike that is ripening now

[tim_brissy_13]

I’ve recently germinated a few H indica, supposedly the green form. A few popped up quite bright red. Interestingly, the red ones’ first fronds were pinnate, like the attached image, whereas the green ones were bifid. I’ve potted one of each as a double to see how the differences evolve. 
 

I’ve just got some fresh seed of the red form, so it will be really interesting to see how variable they are. 

[richnorm]

Looks like my largest might be setting seed on the 4th or 5th attempt.  The flowering process takes ages here in our temperate climate which might have allowed overlap not seen in habitat.

[richnorm]

[Tyrone]

Wow. That’s incredible. Well done.

Do you think they still need to ripen a bit more?

Ive just been to Reunion and seen them in the wild. I think all Hyophorbe take ages from flowering to produce ripe seed. They’re not in a hurry. 

[richnorm]

Oh yes, more time to ripen but couldn't wait to cut one. Previously they were first empty then gelatinous inside so was happy to see this progress. Might be another year before they colour up , I have no idea.

[tim_brissy_13]

On 4/11/2022 at 10:18 PM, tim_brissy_13 said:

I’ve recently germinated a few H indica, supposedly the green form. A few popped up quite bright red. Interestingly, the red ones’ first fronds were pinnate, like the attached image, whereas the green ones were bifid. I’ve potted one of each as a double to see how the differences evolve. 
 

I’ve just got some fresh seed of the red form, so it will be really interesting to see how variable they are. 

Update after less than a year for this H indica shown above. Updated photo taken March 2023, age less than 18 months from germination. These are seriously fast as seedlings, even in my cool climate. 

[Tyrone]

4 hours ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

Update after less than a year for this H indica shown above. Updated photo taken March 2023, age less than 18 months from germination. These are seriously fast as seedlings, even in my cool climate. 

Well done. The red form are particularly fast when happy. In January I planted 7 red form out that were germinated in late 2019 with my Acanthophoenix rubra double and they’re motoring along in a semi shaded rainforest area. When I get myself organised I will post up some pics of the green form in habitat where some seemed to have a darker colouration than what you would expect for a green.

Interestingly the first time I tried germinating the red form, some came up green and some red. The last lot of seed I got in all came up red, every single one. 

[Steve Mac]

These are the orange coloured seeds (red form) that I posted back in April '22 I planted them and forgot about them,

I just found them buried in the dark part of the garden, so they are a little stretched.

So the timeline seems to be, Flowered '20,  Seed ripened '22, Seedlings '23.

[tim_brissy_13]

On 4/8/2023 at 11:58 AM, Tyrone said:

Well done. The red form are particularly fast when happy. In January I planted 7 red form out that were germinated in late 2019 with my Acanthophoenix rubra double and they’re motoring along in a semi shaded rainforest area. When I get myself organised I will post up some pics of the green form in habitat where some seemed to have a darker colouration than what you would expect for a green.

Interestingly the first time I tried germinating the red form, some came up green and some red. The last lot of seed I got in all came up red, every single one. 

Interestingly I’ve had the same but opposite initial experience. First time germinating the green firm I had a few reds pop up (including the above palm). Reds all opened a fully pinnate first frond, greens were bifid. Then I’ve just germinated a large batch of reds and they are all red so far and all pinnate from the start.