Need help with newly planted Royal Palms

[DoomsDave]

It's great to hear how fast these can grow, can't wait for these to get established and more fronds come in. What is the difference between Oleraceas and Regias? What should I look for to tell them apart?

Generally, regias are much more plumose that oleracea, with narrower pinnae. Also, ollies grow at least twice as fast as reggies in my experience. Your palms look like my regias (though note that I'm in California, which might or might not make a diff).

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

I wish i had a car-denting decipiens...

Dypsisdean has one at his place in Encinitas. His son parked a car underneath it, and the leaf fell off and shattered the windshield.

Some of those big Dypsis have ENORMOUS dead leaves. Tokoravina, I think, has dead leaves that weigh about 100+ pounds. Jeff Marcus has one in Hawaii and the leaves are too heavy for one guy of normal strength to move easily.

I wouldn't mind having that sort of problem. So how many years would it take in California to get Tokoravina or robusta to produce 100+ pound leaves? 100 provided we get 100 consecutive years without a savage freeze?

[robsp2000]

dan.vagnoni, on 30 Apr 2013 - 23:00, said:

robsp2000, on 30 Apr 2013 - 10:29, said:

DoomsDave, on 29 Apr 2013 - 14:47, said:

robsp:

Looks like you planted your royals very close to a driveway. When they get big, which will be fast, they will drop dead leaves on cars beneath them. I had a friend near me take one out because of that, alas, we all cried.

Those dead leaves are very heavy (50+ pounds) and can dent cars, and shatter windshields. I suppose (hope) the Psuedophoenix give some protection. Other large palms can do the leaf drop thing, too, including some of the big dypsis like D. decipiens.

In any case, keep us apprized!

dave

Dave,

Yeah I know how heavy the fronds are. Unfortunately because our lot is so small this was the only place for them. My wife and I agreed that the advantages of having the Royals were worth the hassle/risk of falling fronds. We only use one of the two sides of the driveway, in bad weather/ high wind I will park on the street. Once they get too tall for use to handle, we will probably use a tree service to get the ones that are dying and about to fall that pose a threat. With how compact this island is and all the coconut and large palms here, it seems to be a very common issue you have to learn to deal with.

For us the shaded canopy we will get over our front yard plus how good these palms will look is well worth the hassle.

Learn to deal with? How about stop planting these monsters in little nooks and crannies and plant appropriate sized palms for our island. Good job on the sargentiis which will take their sweet time but it isn't too late to rip those royals before they start pushing your fence

The beauty of owning a house is everyone gets to plant what they like. To me I don't care at all about the fronds falling. What do you deem appropriate sized palms? Who gets to make that distinction? How many palms are actually native to Key West? Do you only have native palms and plants? What really is your point? And since you think you know so much I will bet you anything that they never will push my fence. Before I made the decision, I went to the largest royals I could find here and measured the trunk diameter. If these got large enough to push my fence I would be setting records for Key West.

Should everyone pull up all the coconut palms down here so they don't have to "deal with it"?

Edited May 1, 2013 by robsp2000

[robsp2000]

It's great to hear how fast these can grow, can't wait for these to get established and more fronds come in. What is the difference between Oleraceas and Regias? What should I look for to tell them apart?

Generally, regias are much more plumose that oleracea, with narrower pinnae. Also, ollies grow at least twice as fast as reggies in my experience. Your palms look like my regias (though note that I'm in California, which might or might not make a diff).

Thanks, I'm pretty sure these are Cuban Royal palms and not Caribbean. If not, the nursery will have some explaining to do. I couldn't believe when I read the Oleraceas can get 130ft with over 20 leaves!

Edited May 1, 2013 by robsp2000

[dan.vagnoni]

dan.vagnoni, on 30 Apr 2013 - 23:00, said:

robsp2000, on 30 Apr 2013 - 10:29, said:

DoomsDave, on 29 Apr 2013 - 14:47, said:

robsp:

Looks like you planted your royals very close to a driveway. When they get big, which will be fast, they will drop dead leaves on cars beneath them. I had a friend near me take one out because of that, alas, we all cried.

Those dead leaves are very heavy (50+ pounds) and can dent cars, and shatter windshields. I suppose (hope) the Psuedophoenix give some protection. Other large palms can do the leaf drop thing, too, including some of the big dypsis like D. decipiens.

In any case, keep us apprized!

dave

Dave,

Yeah I know how heavy the fronds are. Unfortunately because our lot is so small this was the only place for them. My wife and I agreed that the advantages of having the Royals were worth the hassle/risk of falling fronds. We only use one of the two sides of the driveway, in bad weather/ high wind I will park on the street. Once they get too tall for use to handle, we will probably use a tree service to get the ones that are dying and about to fall that pose a threat. With how compact this island is and all the coconut and large palms here, it seems to be a very common issue you have to learn to deal with.

For us the shaded canopy we will get over our front yard plus how good these palms will look is well worth the hassle.

Learn to deal with? How about stop planting these monsters in little nooks and crannies and plant appropriate sized palms for our island. Good job on the sargentiis which will take their sweet time but it isn't too late to rip those royals before they start pushing your fence

The beauty of owning a house is everyone gets to plant what they like. To me I don't care at all about the fronds falling. What do you deem appropriate sized palms? Who gets to make that distinction? How many palms are actually native to Key West? Do you only have native palms and plants? What really is your point? And since you think you know so much I will bet you anything that they never will push my fence. Before I made the decision, I went to the largest royals I could find here and measured the trunk diameter. If these got large enough to push my fence I would be setting records for Key West.

Should everyone pull up all the coconut palms down here so they don't have to "deal with it"?

Its just funny that you complain about a "common issue" but keep on planting. I'm not the tree police, nor am I keys energy but i deem a royal a big palm and a coconut a dangerous one. Also where did native come into it? I grow palms from six continents. Why don't you just bet me 100$ right here on internet, amateur.

[robsp2000]

I started this thread for advice on a palm in shock. Didn't ask for your opinion on what palms you deem too tall and scary.

Looks like we got a troll here.

[dan.vagnoni]

I started this thread for advice on a palm in shock. Didn't ask for your opinion on what palms you deem too tall and scary.

Looks like we got a troll here.

A troll? I'm actually a member of this community. You just popped up and I haven't seen you comment on one thing that wasn't the topic you started. Convo over

[robsp2000]

I started this thread for advice on a palm in shock. Didn't ask for your opinion on what palms you deem too tall and scary.

Looks like we got a troll here.

A troll? I'm actually a member of this community. You just popped up and I haven't seen you comment on one thing that wasn't the topic you started. Convo over

Really? Cause I saw you jump on a thread, make a rude little criticism offering no constructive help. Sounds like a troll to me. Definitely doesn't sound like the actions of a "reputable community member".

[dan.vagnoni]

All I did was was warn you

[Moose]

I started this thread for advice on a palm in shock. Didn't ask for your opinion on what palms you deem too tall and scary.

Looks like we got a troll here.

A troll? I'm actually a member of this community. You just popped up and I haven't seen you comment on one thing that wasn't the topic you started. Convo over

Really? Cause I saw you jump on a thread, make a rude little criticism offering no constructive help. Sounds like a troll to me. Definitely doesn't sound like the actions of a "reputable community member".

Rob - referring to Dan as a troll is improper and uncalled for. I am sympathetic to your position, I also love the beautiful stature of Roystonea regia. There are three in my garden. They in fact were the first palms I planted when I purchased my home. No one could have convinced me not to plant them.

It is now 18+ years later and they have 30ft of trunk. The fronds are large and gravity always wins, with a considerable amount of force. Although unsolicitated, Dan's comments are valid. Royals are not "friendly" when mature in a confined areas.

I've known Dan since he was 13 or 14 years old, always attending the Palm Sales at Fairchild Tropical Botanical Garden. He is passionate about palms. Both you guys are fortunate to live in USDA Zone 11 and can grow palms that many of us cannot. Dan is still a yound guy and does have a bias towards rare and unusual palms. His experience could be a valuable asset to you.

Lets try some kindness

Ron

[sonoranfans]

Rob,

I know you came on to palmtalk to get some advice and I hope you got what you wanted. I also appreciate that the comment in post 40 was offensive and probably baited you to the "troll" response. Its has been quite a while since I have seen a troll on palmtalk, it is pretty well moderated. My advice to you is that if you think you have been treated rudely, step away for a while and cool down. This has happened to most of us, myself included. Responding just makes it worse than it really is. And all of us should remind ourselves that we can agree to disagree and not insult each other. I wouldnt let any minor conflict like this limit your use of the fabulous benefits of belonging to this community. Welcome and I hope to see the growth progress on your royals and pseudophoenix in the future.

[robsp2000]

I'm sorry but I treat everyone I encounter with respect, if I had advice to give, even if it was contrary to what the person wanted to hear, I would deliver it in a polite way.

Now when someone treats me in a rude way, mentioning "rip up" your palm's etc, then it is time to set boundaries. I don't believe in letting that kind of behavior go unchecked.

I am new to these forums and I make no assertion that I am anything but an "amateur" but I am smart enough to know what I am getting myself into with these palms. I have lived in a house with 8 of these lining the back yard. I have lived in a house with 3 coconut palms over the parking area. Many people have warned me of the issues, all of which I appreciated and responded kindly to.

In the short amount of time I have spent admiring palms and landscaping in Key West, it really seems like an art to me. But just like art, everyone has there own likes and dislikes. With that comes passion as well, but we need to remember to give everyone room to have their own opinion and treat others with respect even if it you don't agree with them.

[dan.vagnoni]

Where was the respect when I PM'd you before I even commented on this thread? Just because I saw you were new from kw and you didn't even respond. And as far as "rip" up or out goes people use the term on the forum and in the landscape trade pretty regularly. If you're going to take offense every time someone's uses it and put them all in "check", you'd better get startered. Also I called you an amateur because you said " if I know so much you'll bet me anything." Sorry dude if I offended, I really didn't intend to, but this is the Internet. Everything isn't sugar coated and its all up for interpretation

[robsp2000]

Although this is fun to go back and forth, this can go on forever and I'd rather spend my time on this forum reading other threads.

Thanks Dan, I accept your apology.

[Moose]

Although this is fun to go back and forth, this can go on forever and I'd rather spend my time on this forum reading other threads.

Thanks Dan, I accept your apology.

This is what Dan was referring to ...

These fronds were sheared off from outerband winds of Tropical Storm Andrea. This is why Roystonia regia does so well in huricanes. They give up their fronds and become less wind resistant. My Royals have 30 ft of clear trunk and these fronds weigh 70 - 80 lbs. each. Not to be a physics lesson, but a 70 lb frond falling from such a height accelerates causing an increased force as it lands.

The brown frond weighs considerably less. This frond was hung up in a large Phoenix cariensis. With the aid of the winds this frond was dislodged, gravity always wins.

[dan.vagnoni]

Good bump Ron. Very timely actually. My brother sent me this picture a few days ago. He lives in Hollywood, FL where its nearly impossible to park on the street without being under one of these juggernauts. Luckily this is not his car and if it was, Florida does fully cover windshield replacements

[DoomsDave]

Good bump Ron. Very timely actually. My brother sent me this picture a few days ago. He lives in Hollywood, FL where its nearly impossible to park on the street without being under one of these juggernauts. Luckily this is not his car and if it was, Florida does fully cover windshield replacements

OW!

That requires a few [expetive expletive EXPLE-[EXPLETIVE]-TIVE] obscenities!

I wonder if there's a helmet law there?

[Cedric]

What we do for love of these towering beauties. One of these palms almost killed me with a falling frond, so sudden so quietly dropping its bomb one step behind me as I walked past. I only heard it when it hit the path with a big crashing thud.I don't walk under them anymore ever.

Here in South East Asia I never walk under a coconut palm either. Yes 150 people get killed by them every year etc and thats a mere 1% fatal coconut drop per year from all coconuts so its pretty safe but I still avoid them especially in windy weather.

Would this stop me planting Roystonia or coconut palms? Never. But having learnt the hard way never around pathways, roofs or cars. Besides you need little distance to see the full majesty once they are half size.

However even more dangerous than falling leaves in my opinion is telling a palm nut (myself included and pun intended) where and where not to plant their precious palms. That's just asking for a fight (:

[robsp2000]

What we do for love of these towering beauties. One of these palms almost killed me with a falling frond, so sudden so quietly dropping its bomb one step behind me as I walked past. I only heard it when it hit the path with a big crashing thud.I don't walk under them anymore ever.

Here in South East Asia I never walk under a coconut palm either. Yes 150 people get killed by them every year etc and thats a mere 1% fatal coconut drop per year from all coconuts so its pretty safe but I still avoid them especially in windy weather.

Would this stop me planting Roystonia or coconut palms? Never. But having learnt the hard way never around pathways, roofs or cars. Besides you need little distance to see the full majesty once they are half size.

However even more dangerous than falling leaves in my opinion is telling a palm nut (myself included and pun intended) where and where not to plant their precious palms. That's just asking for a fight (:

I'm always really cautious walking under coconut palms down here. I have seen them fall from 40+ ft. Can't imagine how bad that would be if you took a direct hit from one on your head!

Quick update on my royal that was on shock. The spear finally started growing, we had a ton of rain and wind and it actually opened up early but it is growing everyday. I think the palm will make it.

The others are really growing fast now and are starting to really trunk.

Edited June 11, 2013 by robsp2000

[robsp2000]

Although this is fun to go back and forth, this can go on forever and I'd rather spend my time on this forum reading other threads.

Thanks Dan, I accept your apology.

This is what Dan was referring to ...

Royal 1.JPGRoyal 3.JPG

These fronds were sheared off from outerband winds of Tropical Storm Andrea. This is why Roystonia regia does so well in huricanes. They give up their fronds and become less wind resistant. My Royals have 30 ft of clear trunk and these fronds weigh 70 - 80 lbs. each. Not to be a physics lesson, but a 70 lb frond falling from such a height accelerates causing an increased force as it lands.

Royal 2.JPG

The brown frond weighs considerably less. This frond was hung up in a large Phoenix cariensis. With the aid of the winds this frond was dislodged, gravity always wins.

That's impressive. Just curious, what kind of growth rate does yours have? Do you know how long yours take in between one spear opening up and the next one doing the same?

[doranakandawatta]

No comment...

[Cedric]

OMGosh that's beautiful!!! And so spooky too. Life's a lottery as they say enjoy while you can. Think those might be oleracea?

[doranakandawatta]

Cedric,

These are R.oleracea in Peradeniya botanic garden Kandy Sri Lanka, (not in Key West...)

[DoomsDave]

Ow!

My head!

[Cedric]

Cedric,

These are R.oleracea in Peradeniya botanic garden Kandy Sri Lanka, (not in Key West...)

It's such a pity the world is so big (not really) I would love to visit Scri Lanka one of these days especially the North.

[doranakandawatta]

North is mostly "Palmyra (Borassus) land", only! (if we talk about palms)

In the middle of the country this is the "Areca and Caryota and some many others land".

All the country is amazing, you'll be welcome .

[Moose]

Although this is fun to go back and forth, this can go on forever and I'd rather spend my time on this forum reading other threads.

Thanks Dan, I accept your apology.

This is what Dan was referring to ...

Royal 1.JPGRoyal 3.JPG

These fronds were sheared off from outerband winds of Tropical Storm Andrea. This is why Roystonia regia does so well in huricanes. They give up their fronds and become less wind resistant. My Royals have 30 ft of clear trunk and these fronds weigh 70 - 80 lbs. each. Not to be a physics lesson, but a 70 lb frond falling from such a height accelerates causing an increased force as it lands.

Royal 2.JPG

The brown frond weighs considerably less. This frond was hung up in a large Phoenix cariensis. With the aid of the winds this frond was dislodged, gravity always wins.

That's impressive. Just curious, what kind of growth rate does yours have? Do you know how long yours take in between one spear opening up and the next one doing the same?

Rob - mine is an established well fed palm. Can no longer see the spears. I average picking up about 15 fronds a year. Assuming that each frond shed is replaced by a new one - that would approximately equate to a new spear every 24.5 days.

[Cedric]

This is why it's such a rewarding thing to plant it grows like jacks bean stalk.

There was a question here somewhere in the thread of appropriate size for Key West, har har don't mind if I say it but size certainly mattered on Key West when I was there! The bigger the better. Pleased to say no one was objecting. Talking about my car of course.

[Moose]

Pulling up the drive way next to a "hedge" of Cyrtostachys renda would be sweet ...

[robsp2000]

Quick update on the Roystonea that was in shock. It now is on it's fourth new frond since it came out of shock. Originally it only had about 2 inches of trunk visible, now it is up to about a foot, the next crown shaft boot that falls off with bring it up to 18 inches or so. You can see the truck expanding and splitting it.

The curious part to me is that the original fronds before it went into shock were much longer than the new ones it has shot up since. It's a pretty significant amount smaller. The new spears all have opened really early too before they were fully extended. It's like it's rushing to get them out and open and gathering energy asap. It seems like it has had some good root growth, it was pretty shaky for a while now it is much sturdier.

[DoomsDave]

robsp:

Sometimes plants, palms too, just get into a funk after planting and it's not always clear why.

Looks like yours is on its way upward. It might have some dumpy spears for a while, but should grow out of it.

Keep us apprized.

We're really jealous . . . .

[Danilopez89]

Quick update on the Roystonea that was in shock. It now is on it's fourth new frond since it came out of shock. Originally it only had about 2 inches of trunk visible, now it is up to about a foot, the next crown shaft boot that falls off with bring it up to 18 inches or so. You can see the truck expanding and splitting it.

The curious part to me is that the original fronds before it went into shock were much longer than the new ones it has shot up since. It's a pretty significant amount smaller. The new spears all have opened really early too before they were fully extended. It's like it's rushing to get them out and open and gathering energy asap. It seems like it has had some good root growth, it was pretty shaky for a while now it is much sturdier.

Hey robsp2000 thanks for sharing. It was fun reading and a learning thru this thread. I was about to start a new one asking similar questions but all you palmtalkers that joined in pretty much answered them all.

I just bought (6) 15gallon Roystonea Regias and guess where their going? Yup along my drive way so that when they get huge all the fronds can drop on my windshield. Lol "it is what it is"

[Palmdude]

The curious part to me is that the original fronds before it went into shock were much longer than the new ones it has shot up since. It's a pretty significant amount smaller. The new spears all have opened really early too before they were fully extended. It's like it's rushing to get them out and open and gathering energy asap. It seems like it has had some good root growth, it was pretty shaky for a while now it is much sturdier.

[Breaktheory]

On 3/14/2013 at 6:15 PM, robsp2000 said:

I planted 4 - 25 gallon royal palms in late January. Not knowing any better, I added fertilizer to the soil around the rootball. I realized this was wrong pretty quickly and within 4-5 days we dug them back up, rinsed the rootball and dug the holes out larger and added fresh unfertilized soil. 3 of the palms have bounced back well and the new center fronds are growing pretty quickly. About 6 inches a week. One tree however, didn't do as well. It had 4 fronds to begin with and about a 16" new center frond sprouting. The two lowest fronds turned completely brown. The third one turned about 25% brown and the highest frond just has a little brown on the tips of the leaves. All this damage happened within the first 2 weeks. Since then it has not gotten any worse.

The new center frond though has not grown at all. It is still the original size it was when it was planted. Is this tree dying or is it in shock? It's been about 7 weeks now. If it is just shock, how long can this last before it starts to grow again?

 

Here are two photos, the one on the left was taken Feb 19th and the other taken today. There has been maybe 1/4 inch growth. The other palms have had around 18 inches of growth in the same time.

Hi Dan I’m resurrecting this 9 year old thread as I’m curious how your Royals are doing - I’m dealing with a similar situation although it’s rapidly improving…would love to see some pix of yours

 

Jon