Name this disease…RIP my beautiful Canary Island Palm!

[Klawans]

Thought this would interest all palm lovers-

I live in southern California and have (had) a beautiful Canary Palm…approx. 20' trunk…never showed any problems. Canopy beautiful and green…new spears/leafs appearing often.

I walked outside my house 3 days ago and I notice the bud/canopy slightly leaning (see first pic). About 1 foot below the bud/canopy, the trunk appears "dented". Using a bat, I tap the bottom of the trunk…sounds solid. Then I tap the top 1/3rd and sounds hollow.

I rope off the area in case it drops…don't want it to fall on someone. This afternoon, it fell on its own (nobody was hurt).

Here are the sad, but interesting pictures.

[Phoenikakias]

Feel very sorry for your loss. I think it is a typical case of sudden crown drop (http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn74148.html).

[wimmie]

Isn't this something completely different than the well known Phoenix disease?

It's nevertheless a shame!

Regards,

Wim.

[Kris]

Its a painful sight...And it happens to be my favorite among all the phoenix palms !

And here is a link to show how much i adore these palms...

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/639-any-pictures-on-cidp

Kris.

[Phoenikakias]

Isn't this something completely different than the well known Phoenix disease?

It's nevertheless a shame!

Regards,

Wim.

If you mean with well known Phoenix disease the infestation through the red palm weevil (rpw), then the answer is yes., it is a different problem, a disease without any known cure yet. Fortunately it has not yet spreaded to Europe, but for how long? Seeing the very neaty, clean trunk of this late Phoenix I wonder whether the palm caught the disease through the pruning with infested tools.

[avanza]

RIP for your CIPD

i have this 31 baby in my home just germinated 5/9/12

Edited March 15, 2013 by avanza

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

This disease is one good reason not to prune canary date palms. Pruning, especially the pineapple topping done by all the stupid ignoramus landscapers all over southern California is one of the ways this fungus spreads.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Isn't this something completely different than the well known Phoenix disease?

It's nevertheless a shame!

Regards,

Wim.

If you mean with well known Phoenix disease the infestation through the red palm weevil (rpw), then the answer is yes., it is a different problem, a disease without any known cure yet. Fortunately it has not yet spreaded to Europe, but for how long? Seeing the very neaty, clean trunk of this late Phoenix I wonder whether the palm caught the disease through the pruning with infested tools.

You're either unaware or in complete denial, the palm weevil is all over Europe. (http://www.palmweevil.eu/) It's all over Italy, Greece and Southern France. It's starting to show up in Southern California as well (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/greenspace/2010/10/palm-trees-insect-pest-red-weevil-california-laguna-cdfa.html). However, the crown rot identified here is not from the weevil, it's from a fungus. The weevil eats the palm higher up in the crown.

For more info on this pest, see http://cisr.ucr.edu/red_palm_weevil.html.

[pogobob]

It appears that whoever " Pineapplled" your palm chainsaw shaved the trunk to deep and injured the trunk allowing fungus to enter. It's easy to see in the pics that he went too far, sad to see!

[Mandrew968]

Well, if you know about palms, you don't plant CIPD(unless that's your only option). And if you get them trimmed like that, you are really asking for this sort of thing--at least no one got hurt!

[Phoenikakias]

I was meaning the fungal disease! I am very well aware of the extense of rpw in Europe! In fact I am on a personal crusade for a suspension of palm (after a certain size) trade within EU and with third countries, until this pest be put under control.

Isn't this something completely different than the well known Phoenix disease?

It's nevertheless a shame!

Regards,

Wim.

If you mean with well known Phoenix disease the infestation through the red palm weevil (rpw), then the answer is yes., it is a different problem, a disease without any known cure yet. Fortunately it has not yet spreaded to Europe, but for how long? Seeing the very neaty, clean trunk of this late Phoenix I wonder whether the palm caught the disease through the pruning with infested tools.

You're either unaware or in complete denial, the palm weevil is all over Europe. (http://www.palmweevil.eu/) It's all over Italy, Greece and Southern France. It's starting to show up in Southern California as well (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/greenspace/2010/10/palm-trees-insect-pest-red-weevil-california-laguna-cdfa.html). However, the crown rot identified here is not from the weevil, it's from a fungus. The weevil eats the palm higher up in the crown.

For more info on this pest, see http://cisr.ucr.edu/red_palm_weevil.html.

[pogobob]

Why wouldn't you plant CIDPS? What does "knowing about palms" have any bearing on choosing such wonderfull palms? You sound like your personal preferences are clouding your advice to others here. I wouldn't drive a pink cadillac, but if you did I wouldn't ask you if you knew anything about cars!

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Well, if you know about palms, you don't plant CIPD(unless that's your only option). And if you get them trimmed like that, you are really asking for this sort of thing--at least no one got hurt!

I think what he meant to say is that if you are a palm nut in Southern California, you would probably not choose to plant a CIDP because 1) they're everywhere and 2) they take a ton of room and 3) they provide rat habitat and 4) they have massive spines that make them difficult to manage. You would want to focus on more unusual palms that take less room. That doesn't mean CIDP aren't beautiful. I think they are one of the most beautiful palms around. But I don't have one in my garden either because they're rather common up here too. I would rather grow more unusual phoenix palms. I also don't grow washingtonias. They are over planted all over town. I do have a couple of queens, but now that they are thousands of them everywhere, I will probably replace them with more interesting species.

And I agree, turning a CIPD into a pineapple is asking for crown drop.

[Mandrew968]

Pogo is right and so is Axel. Yes, CIDP are impressive palms, but it is not a must have for me, or any die hard palm collector. The best ones I have seen are in California as avenue plantings--when I first saw them, I remembered how shocked I was that they could get so tall. Having said that, I am not one to marvel at a CIDP, but I have planted some at the beach house, in Panama City, Fl.

Pogo, forgive me if I am off, but I would think you or any other high profile palm guy would plant something more rare in your gardens--although they don't grow as well as they do in California, CIDP are visible almost everywhere in South Florida. I personally know better than to plant one in my yard.

[WestCoastGal]

Klawans, sorry for the loss of your CIDP. You were fortunate to notice something was off. I liked your technique of tapping the trunk with the bat. Glad no one got hurt. Sad photos though and hope it didn't take out anything below that you liked in the landscaping. Sure wouldn't want that crown falling on me. Hubby and I are new to palms and I remember being surprised at how heavy just our mule palm frond was when it was time to cut it off and the spathes are quite hefty as well; so can't imagine how much a whole CIPD canopy would weigh.

How will you deal with the aftermath? Do you have equipment to cut it down and cut up or do you have to hire someone. Also curious what it costs if you do need a tree service to come in. If there's fungus involved, how should it be disposed of so as not to further contaminate other palms?

BTW I see a number of Canaries dotting our skyscape in my area and always love to see them, especially with a sunset in the background. As someone who grew up in snow country, I can appreciate them all no matter how common some may seem. It was nice to see you post for the first time. Your photos were great.

Edited March 15, 2013 by WestCoastGal

[monkeyranch]

Maybe the fungal infection came from a dirty, unsterilized chainsaw during the over-pruning of the crown? If so, hopefully the pruner isn't still on the loose in S.D. county, infecting more trees.

[Klawans]

Pruning of the crown was always done with my own tools...and those tools were only used on this tree...and properly cleaned after each use.

[Tassie_Troy1971]

Such a shame to see a loss like that .

CIDP are one of the most amazing palms in my opinion and are planted everywhere in Hobart .

Even with my small quarter acre lot and the rare palms i grow i ended up commando planting a CIDP over the other side of my fence on scrub land adjacent to a road ( yes the council didn't mind ) .

Troy

[LJG]

Pruning of the crown was always done with my own tools...and those tools were only used on this tree...and properly cleaned after each use.

We're they your tree spikes?

[LJG]

Andrew, I have 3. Planted 5 (2 died of Fusarium and all were pruned with own saws, spikes etc). I wouldn't do 5 again due to the fact there is probably not another palm that has more maladies them the CIDP. But it is still one of my favorites in my garden and certainly 1-2 would be in order in a garden with room. Actually out of all the common palms in SoCal only the Queen missing from my garden.

[Moose]

Pogo is right and so is Axel. Yes, CIDP are impressive palms, but it is not a must have for me, or any die hard palm collector. The best ones I have seen are in California as avenue plantings--when I first saw them, I remembered how shocked I was that they could get so tall. Having said that, I am not one to marvel at a CIDP, but I have planted some at the beach house, in Panama City, Fl.

Pogo, forgive me if I am off, but I would think you or any other high profile palm guy would plant something more rare in your gardens--although they don't grow as well as they do in California, CIDP are visible almost everywhere in South Florida. I personally know better than to plant one in my yard.

Hmmm - as a student at the University of Miami, I marveled at the Phoenix canariensis that lined the perimeter street at the northwest area of the Campus (close to Doctors Hospital). I said "one day when I own a home, I gonna plant one of those". I purchased one three years before Hurricane Andrew, before I even purchased my home. Keeping true to my dream, it is now a beautiful palm in my garden. I love it!

I must not be a "die hard palm collector" or a "high profile palm guy". I can live with that. After all I plant my palms for my own personal satisfaction.

Klawans - that is a tragic loss to what once was a nice specimen palm.

[iamjv]

Such a sad sight.... I feel for your loss here! I too, luv Phx Canarensis.... they and Wahingtonia's were the first palms I ever saw in person and started my love for palms! To this day, I still enjoy viewing them, especially the ones in Calif., that manage such majestic heights and stature !

[pogobob]

I wouldn't palnt a CIDP on a standard sized city lot, true enouph, but I have moved out to the countryside and my one acre property is graced with a beutyfull 20ft CIDP and also an 80ft Washingtonia that are landmark trees that can be spotted miles away. Everyone who comes to my place comments on what a statement tree the CIDP is. I also am planting as many rare palms and cycads as I can, but I have no prejudice against common palms (except sabals).

Mandrew, I was pointing out that no one here should tell someone not to grow a certain specie just because it's common, as you also tried to tell a first time poster who wanted to plant coconut palms in Hawaii not to. If I lived in Hawaii I'd plant coconut palms and eat the meat and drink the water everyday.

[Mandrew968]

It is never my intention to tell anyone what to do. Having said that, advice is a different matter... and I have never been delusional about me being a palm snob--never told anyone on this forum what to do. I still stick by my opinion that coconuts and canaries are not collector palms and are a waste of space in a palm collector's garden. I repeat: I have not told anyone what to do, nor do I like coconuts or canaries in my yard(and am not impressed when I see them in other people's yards).

[pogobob]

It is never my intention to tell anyone what to do. Having said that, advice is a different matter... and I have never been delusional about me being a palm snob--never told anyone on this forum what to do. I still stick by my opinion that coconuts and canaries are not collector palms and are a waste of space in a palm collector's garden. I repeat: I have not told anyone what to do, nor do I like coconuts or canaries in my yard(and am not impressed when I see them in other people's yards).

= SNOB!

[Mandrew968]

It is never my intention to tell anyone what to do. Having said that, advice is a different matter... and I have never been delusional about me being a palm snob--never told anyone on this forum what to do. I still stick by my opinion that coconuts and canaries are not collector palms and are a waste of space in a palm collector's garden. I repeat: I have not told anyone what to do, nor do I like coconuts or canaries in my yard(and am not impressed when I see them in other people's yards).

= SNOB!

So?