Mule Palm ID

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

I was cruising around our local nursery and a couple of palms caught my attention because they had a much more dainty, droopy look. The nursery had them labeled as butia capitata, but I am pretty intimate with butia to recognize that these aren't looking like regular butias. i suspect these are mules. I bought one, and wanted to get your opinion:

1) very open leaflets, not at all stiff like a regular butia. Much more open form.

1)

2) The end of each leaf has the tell tale "Mule twist" where the end is not just recurved but twists into a 45-90 degree plane.

3) Another shot, showing a close up of the new leaf, very open and droopy, not stiff at all:

I'd ID this one as a mule. I would love to get some more opinions.

[Xhoniwaters1]

looks like Butia x Parajubaea

[MattyB]

Looks like a Butia grown in less than full sun.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Looks like a Butia grown in less than full sun.

Maybe, but butias in less than full sun don't look like that, they still have stiff leathery leaves. They don't twist at the end either.

Matty, maybe this picture is a little more convincing: the palm in the ground to the right is a mule. The palm to the left is the butia I think is a mule. Notice how both palms have a twist in the end of the fronds, the tell tale signature of the cross.

[sergiskan]

by the closed angle of the leaflets seem butia

[ErikSJI]

Looks Butia to me and I stare at Mule palms all day.

[Tropicdoc]

Erik, you stare at mules all day... you hybridize them? You sell them? I'm looking for mules that lean toward the queen side... for the closest I can get to a coconut in 9a.

[ErikSJI]

Sure thing. I can backcross the mule for you with the queen as well. Message me and I will get some photos for you.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Looks Butia to me and I stare at Mule palms all day.

The butia i found must be a coconut x butia.

[SanDimas]

www.palmpedia...photos-as-well.

Nice operation ErikSJI is running.

But why cant we cross a Butia and Cocos nucifera?

Same Cocosoid family?

www.seabreezenurseries.com/HybridPalmTreesModifyingNature.html

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

www.palmpedia...photos-as-well.

Nice operation ErikSJI is running.

But why cant we cross a Butia and Cocos nucifera?

Same Cocosoid family?

www.seabreezenurseries.com/HybridPalmTreesModifyingNature.html

People just get cynical after a while, that's all. While it's theoretically possible, no one to this day has succeeded. It's sort of like trying to grow coconut in Southern California, it's the holy grail. Yes, there is one in Newport, but other than being a feat interesting to Palm nuts, it's not exactly very attractive.

People have been hybridizing butia since the late 1800's, and an interest in a far Northern growing coconut is also something that people have been wanting for years. If it was doable, we'd already have it. There's no harm in trying, I just wouldn't get my hopes up too high, that's all.

[Tropicdoc]

Palmnuts are to cold hardy coconut hybrids as alchemists were to the philosophers stone

Will message you, Erik.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Turns out this might be a butia purpurascens, it is different from the regular butia odorata. Have a look at the photos below, it shows a regular butia with green leaf bases versus the one with the purple leaf bases. Both have same sun exposure. The one with the purple has more relaxed leaflets than the stiffer ones the one with the green leaf bases has.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

To show the purple, here is one of the leaf bases up close: