hybrid palms

[ricky]

hi all id just like to know more out off interest than any thing else but as any one managed to cross the following in any combination a parajubaea with a jubaea or a jubaeopsis like i said more out interest than any thing else and in any combination

also butyagrus are these crosses always done with syagrus romanzoffiana i only ask as we now have a few different types in the uk but its always with a different butia i think we now have four different cross

1 butia capitata x syagrus rom

2 butia yatay x syagrus rom

3 butia eriospatha x syagrus rom

4 butia odarata x syagrus rom

[Neofolis]

I don't know about a direct cross between Parajubaea and Jubaea, but Parajubaea has definitely been crossed with other similar hybrids.  I remember a thread a while back where Merrill Wilcox listed the Syagrus species he's used in hybrids, it was quite an extensive list, so it's certainly not always romanzoffiana, but availability is a totally different question.  In the UK, Nigel Kembrey (Username: "Nigel" here) has distributed many hybrids through his website Hardy Palms in the past.  I don't see anything listed at the moment, but he may be able to enlighten you about future availability or alternative sources.

[ricky]

hi neofolis  i have bought a lot of hybrids from nigel he has some great palms the newest hybrid nigel has was the butia odarata x syagrus rom it was a pre order so i have to wait till june now back to the hybrids i now they crossed parajubaea  with a butia but i was more interested to know if they had managed to cross a parajubaea with a jubaea or a jubaea with a jubaeopsis or if these three had been crossed in any combination

regards

ricky

[Nigel]

(ricky @ Feb. 06 2007,12:58)

QUOTE

hi neofolis  i have bought a lot of hybrids from nigel he has some great palms the newest hybrid nigel has was the butia odarata x syagrus rom it was a pre order so i have to wait till june now back to the hybrids i now they crossed parajubaea  with a butia but i was more interested to know if they had managed to cross a parajubaea with a jubaea or a jubaea with a jubaeopsis or if these three had been crossed in any combination

regards

ricky

Ricky, the Palm Centre sold some supposed JubaeaxParajubaea seedlings some years back, I missed the boat , but I knew somebody who bought one and I saw it a couple of years back. It looked very plausible, but I am suspicious as it died in a frost 2 years ago, whilst my Butia xParajubaea sailed through untouched.

[ricky]

hi nigel

considering the parents hardiness i would never have thought a  jubaea x parajubaea would flop at the temps we get in the uk so does look a bit suss considering how well the butia x parajubaea are doing

regards

ricky

[Nigel]

Ricky, it is normal to put the mother plant first in the naming of the cross.

IE a JubaeaxParajubaea should be mothered by the Jubaea. Sadly however, the cross is often named randomly , or they put the favoured palm first, so its possible the plant was either a ParajubaeaxJubaea which may well have been considerably less hardy, or even a Parajubaea which is even less hardy again........

Either would explain the non-jubaea like appearance of the seedling I saw.

[PalmGuyWC]

Hey guys,

There are several threads now on hybrid palms and it gets a little confussing. There is some good information and pictures, but lets get this down to something more specific.  I'm going to start a new thread with just the cocoid palms in mind and the known hybrids that have been produced there.  Nothing but cocoid hybrids, OK? No speculation on what might be, but what has already been done, and your 95% sure the hybrid is valid.  It usually take 2 or 3 years after germination until the hybrid characteristics manifest themselves.  For those who have sent in pictures, please send them again to this new thread.  I can't get enough of them!

Dick

[merrill]

Hi, Ricky:

Over quite a few years I've gotten the impression that Butia made interspecific crosses very easily.  Years ago I tried to sort out my 30 or so Butia, and it seemed the mixtures represented many different spp.  Then I got an unquestioned B. yatay from Concordia's (Argentina) extensive, tall, ancient grove.  When it matured, it would't cross with  ANY BUTIA!  B. yatay hybrids are found, Thanks to Gaston, but the populations are much, much smaller than, for example, Florida's B. capitata and other B/queen hybrids  This made seed collection very convenient; it was necessary to save pollen for selfing for the succeeding inflorescence.

One odd factor is that Gaston's QueenXyatay [wish I had one!] hybrids have not reached the height reached by either parent yet.  - merrill

[ricky]

hi merrill thank you for the reply iv also been looking for yatay x queen with out much luck it would seem strange that gastons hybrids don't grow as tall as its parent trees but still yatay x queen seem to have a very refined look where as capitata x queen tend to look a bit untidy but the main reason for posting this question was to attain if instead of changing butias in the crosses you could change the syagrus for instance instead of the usual capitata x romanzoffiana could you change romanzoffiana for just an example capitata x glaucescens or any other syagrus

regards ricky

[merrill]

Hi, Ricky:

One factor to consider is that S. romanzoffianum and its very close relatives within the spp. produce hybrids with Butia that are much more cold-hardy than Butia hybrids with other Syagrus.  Best Wishes, -merrill

[edbrown_III]

Howdy Merrill ,

Howdy Dick thanks for hosting my visit your garden.

I have trying to cross Butia with other cocozoid species beside S. romanzoffianum.  

I have progeny from Butia x Allagoptera, Butia x Jubea and Butia x S. coronata as well as perhaps S. schizophyulla and S. ceraensis. ( pardon the spelling).  

It is to early for me to claim definitive sucess but I am confident of 2 of the hybrids. . The Butia x Jubea seems to have some Jubea characteristics on 3 gallon plants.   The Butia x S. coronata has coronata like characteristic on 4 of the plants.   The others of the batch will need to grown on for certainty.  

Heres a photo in the green house of some of them .

Best regards,

Ed

[edbrown_III]

Those (photo above) are advanced seedlings that came off of a silver green butia and the Syagrus characteristics are pretty apparent. The pollen came fro a central Florida S. coronata done inf June of 2005.

You can see evidence of vigour.   The rest of the batches I am not sure of and will have to wait as they could be intermediate between Butia capitata and S. coronata or the result of some contamiination.

I go to great links to isolate Butia pollen from the mix but Butias throws inflourescens in sucession  and there are lots of Butia in the neighbor hood. For this reason ,  I share Dick's reticence in proclaiming sucess .

I dont have any S. coronata seedlings to compare against but will post a post photo of S. mataforme ( S> vagansxcoronata)

I should add that I in zone 9a well north of where you can grow other Syagrus species ( I tried with S. glaucescens, etc. )

Best regards,

Ed Brown