The most cold-sensitive palm on Earth

[Gileno Machado]

Sure do !

Here are some babies baking in the oven:

[Gileno Machado]

By the way Carlo,

My first Coccothrinax torrida has just sprouted !! Should I bake it in the oven for a while too?

[Carlo Morici]

OMG - That's the real oven!

Yes, Coccothrinax torrida must be kept in the oven, getting some hour of sunlight since its earliest days. I have 5 babies sprouted in my balcony - I fell as happy as a father. I bake the pot in full sun during the day and I take it indoors at night, as it is dropping to +15 C and I want no bad surprises.  Raúl Verdecia in Central Cuba killed a few Coccothrinax torrida by keeping them in a lightly shaded greenhouse in winter... their second year will be much easier.

Southern slopes of the Guantanamo coast have among the highest minimum on Earth  but the Coccothrinax species that grow there are tough hardy palms that can take some shaking. They are surely hardier to cold than other wet-loving tropical palms.

Carlo

[palmtreesforpleasure]

The Roscheria melanochaaetes was/is growing in bed 23b in the Sydney botannical gardens in a protected spot

regards

colin

[Tyrone]

(palmsforpleasure @ Feb. 17 2007,05:49)

QUOTE

The Roscheria melanochaaetes was/is growing in bed 23b in the Sydney botannical gardens in a protected spot

regards

colin

Colin I missed that one there. That's incredible.

On a slightly different note, I met a guy yesterday who bought 6 Cyrtostachys renda from Broome about 5 yrs ago. He planted them in the garden at his place in Landsdale Perth. Of course most died ie 5. One however has struggled for 5 yrs and is STILL ALIVE. It's grown about 50% since planted, however one more winter will kill it by the sounds of it. I told him to dig it up, put it into a pot and put it next to his enclosed heated spa which will give it a better chance. However I'm totally stunned it's still kicking on at all. Perth really is subtropical.

regards

Tyrone

[Jeff Searle]

(Ray, Tampa @ Feb. 09 2007,17:59)

QUOTE

Nephrosperma, Roscheria and Deckenia are extremely tender.

Ray,

 Can you spell S E Y C H E L L E S ? Their all whimps.

Jeff

[Carlo Morici]

I have aleady posted the following picture before, but I think it is pertinent here too.

These Cyrtostachys renda were growing outdoors in on the Northern Coast of Gran Canaria, by Viveros Godoy, started from seed or seedling. They are recovering in Spring after one more winter.

The pictured palms were about 7 years old and all died the following year, rotting with fungi in a rainy February 2005. I wish they were on the warmer South Coast. Maybe they would still be alive.

Carlo, Tenerife

[leomx]

Great looking palms, Carlo. It´s a shame they all died. Will give them a try this year, but haven´t been lucky germinating C. renda in the past.

[Orlando]

(Gileno Machado @ Feb. 11 2007,12:06)

QUOTE

For me it has to be the Manicaria saccifera...

I've tried to place one of my seedlings outside of the protected shadecloth area in the breeze but she kept waving goodbye...  (probably homesick of AmazonDK's original place).

Now she is back to her favourite spot, where the night temperatures don't drop below 28°C...

I cannot agree with you on this, Gileno.

I have been able to grow Manicaria's seedlings up to the 3rd leaf stage in my living-room where temps by Winter night often drop to 14-15C...

One thing is sure, they like a very moist air (I keep an invert plastic bag over them) and that might be the culprit for you with that breeze, Gileno.

Also, I sent a couple to Carlos Simón in El Hierro and they were still alive some time ago (hopefully still are... same for the very equatorial Aphandra natalia seedlings I sent him).

Now, Charles Wychgel has taken a few to his greenhouse in the south (Algarve), together with Mauritias that were already going into their 4th leaves that were also doing fine so far... still keeping a Mauritiella aculeta into its 2nd leaf...

Oncosperma tigillarum are still alive in the same conditions, as well as a couple of Hydriastele species seedlings (wendlandliana and kasesa) and Cyrtostachys glauca (less colourful but much better choice than renda I think).

Seychelles palms seedlings, on the other hand, are definitely goners soon after the very start.

[SubTropicRay]

Carlo,

Two of my C. torrida seeds have germinated.  I keep them in my greenhouse and on the dry side.  Any other tips to keep these alive?

Ray

[SubTropicRay]

Phoenicophorium must be near the top of the list.

[Carlo Morici]

Ray, I am getting good growth on Coccothrinax torrida by keeping 18-21 C at night and 24-26 C during the day. It also receives direct sun so the pot warms up to about 32 C.

Use the most drainage you can and don't let it dry too much between waterings. I give little water every other day.As long as the palms are young and the pots are small you could kill the roots with the drought. Try to give direct sun since they are young, except in the hottest summer, of course. So my working recipe is drainage, sunlight and regular but small quantities of water.

[Walter John]

My Phoenicophorium died this winter, way too small to survive, I'll try again another time but with a bigger plant.

Gulubia or should I say Hydriastele costata hasn't been mentioned yet, it would be right up there with the cold sensitives.

[TikiRick]

(Trópico @ Feb. 07 2007,07:22)

QUOTE

Phoenicophorium borsigianum. A temperature in the 40s can wipe out dozens of them. I don't think Cocos is an ultratropical, otherwise they wouldn't be growing around here.

I would have to agree on this one...one week with highs struggling to hit 65 with lows in the upper 30's killed my 8 footer....even with protection.

My second choice would be Pigafetta.

[DoomsDave]

Nephrosperma are tender, but C. renda's still tenderer.  Not much more than a cold stare, that's for a sure . . . .

dave

[TikiRick]

(Wal @ Jul. 16 2007,08:42)

QUOTE

Gulubia or should I say Hydriastele costata hasn't been mentioned yet, it would be right up there with the cold sensitives.

Wal,

Are you certain that the Gulubia/Hydriastele costata is that cold sensitive? There is a guy in Miami growing one over the roof with no protection whatsoever and it has been there for YEARS. In fact, it has been producing seed for years as well.

I am going to try a few for myself...I LOVE THIS PALM!

[edbrown_3]

Rick,

Off topic but my messenger is not working-- but hte hotel is about 25 miles south of the Airport. The venue is a bit spread out . Mat lives in Mandarin and Kyle sgarden in about 35 miles away in Marrieta.

Best regards

Ed

[Carlo Morici]

Yesterday I have visited a nursery in Northern Tenerife, with lots of unusual palm species, they had many two years old seedlings of Nephrosperma and Deckenia. Both are from Seychelles, but nephrospermas were yellow and suffering, presumably for cold, while deckenias were larger, green and growing in january. Is this normal?

It is a shadehouse, it never gets below 10 C (50 F), but experiences cooler weather. I got one Deckenia for me, to try it outdoors.

Carlo

[madagascarbob]

I've had Licuala grandis die in 40 F temps.

[Palm Hound]

My guess is Mauritia flexuosa is one of the most cold sensitive. it is reportedly even marginal in Hawaii.

[Moose]

One comes to mine that beats all of them, for South Florida that is, Areca warburgiana. Many attempts at growing this palm here have ended in failure. It has gotten lethal damage from the upper 40's F, and even milder cold caused large amounts of damage. It only looked decent during a few months of the summer, only if it had recovered from the previous winter. It makes Cyrtostachys renda look temperate in comparison. Not recommended unless for ultra-tropical conditions... If I have a proper setup for it, I would try it again if seed became available.

Ryan

I've never heard of an Areca warburgiana - anyone on palm talk growing this species?

[Bob Greiner]

One comes to mine that beats all of them, for South Florida that is, Areca warburgiana. Many attempts at growing this palm here have ended in failure. It has gotten lethal damage from the upper 40's F, and even milder cold caused large amounts of damage. It only looked decent during a few months of the summer, only if it had recovered from the previous winter. It makes Cyrtostachys renda look temperate in comparison. Not recommended unless for ultra-tropical conditions... If I have a proper setup for it, I would try it again if seed became available.

Ryan

I've never heard of an Areca warburgiana - anyone on palm talk growing this species?

Even talking about it can kill it

Bob

[Mandrew968]

I can't believe the most sensitive palm to cold has not been mentioned! The answer to this question is Nypa. They live in the water which holds heat better than air and still they tend to burn bad in South Florida. I would say they can handle a low of about 55F. If we were to say which group of palms is collectively the most cold sensitive, it's the Seychelles palms--Verschafeltia being the hardiest.

[Jeff Searle]

My guess is Mauritia flexuosa is one of the most cold sensitive. it is reportedly even marginal in Hawaii.

Not sure where your "reports" are from but, Mauritia flexuosa will take low 30's and show no damage what so ever. LOW 30's.....

And as Ron stated above, A. warburgiana is extreamly cold sensitive. I had several of these years ago and they turned out to be no match for mid 30's. Maybe more sensitive than Cyrtostachys renda.

My guess is Mauritia flexuosa is one of the most cold sensitive. it is reportedly even marginal in Hawaii.

[Jeff Searle]

My guess is Mauritia flexuosa is one of the most cold sensitive. it is reportedly even marginal in Hawaii.

[tjwalters]

One comes to mine that beats all of them, for South Florida that is, Areca warburgiana. Many attempts at growing this palm here have ended in failure. It has gotten lethal damage from the upper 40's F, and even milder cold caused large amounts of damage. It only looked decent during a few months of the summer, only if it had recovered from the previous winter. It makes Cyrtostachys renda look temperate in comparison. Not recommended unless for ultra-tropical conditions... If I have a proper setup for it, I would try it again if seed became available.

Ryan

I've never heard of an Areca warburgiana - anyone on palm talk growing this species?

== Areca macrocalyx (Kew)

[Eric F]

== Areca macrocalyx (Kew)

Waiting for NAPalm to chip in. This is one of his dream palms in Brisbane (10b) but sadly I suspect that he is too far from the coastal islands, where zone 11a and even b can be found.

[tikitiki]

I killed an Areca macroclyx because I walked past it with a glass of Ice tea.

[Moose]

I can't believe the most sensitive palm to cold has not been mentioned! The answer to this question is Nypa. They live in the water which holds heat better than air and still they tend to burn bad in South Florida. I would say they can handle a low of about 55F. If we were to say which group of palms is collectively the most cold sensitive, it's the Seychelles palms--Verschafeltia being the hardiest.

I am not so sure that Nypa fruitcans is the "most cold sensitive" palm. I first saw this palm growing at the Montogomery Botanical Center in the mid 1990's. They were very well established and fruiting then, so I suspect they had some age to them. Miami temperatures for the National Weather Service are taken from Miami International Airport. My observations over the last 7 years is that the Montgomery Botanical Center is consistently 4 degrees colder than those recorded at Miami International Airport.

Here are historical Miami lows recorded by the NWS.

1982 - 36 F

1984 - 28 F

1986 - 36 F

1988 - 37 F

1989 - 30 F

1990 - 30 F, 31 F plus two more days below 35 F

1991 - 28 F

1992 - 36 F

1993 - 32 F & 35 F

2000 - 36 F

2007 - 34 F

2009 - 29 F

[palmsOrl]

It officially reached 29F in Miami in 2009??? Wow.

Based on previous threads about this subject, I had gathered that Manicaria saccifera is a contender for the most cold sensitive palm.

[Moose]

It officially reached 29F in Miami in 2009??? Wow.

Based on previous threads about this subject, I had gathered that Manicaria saccifera is a contender for the most cold sensitive palm.

I don't recall it either but we sometimes we experience sharp lows with the temps returning to normal in the afternoon. I doubled checked the records to make sure it was not my typo. Yep, Recorded low in Jan. 2009 29 F tied the record low for that month, last happened in 1898.

[Missi]

BUMP! What about Iguanura, Asterogyne, Itaya, more Hydriastele, Bactris, Pinanga, etc.? What are some more super cold tender palms?

[GottmitAlex]

I've recently read on the forum that Euterpe oleracea is a lot more cold sensitive than C. Nucifera. Is this true?

[palmsOrl]

I know that this thread is ages old, but I wanted to back up what Eric said about Eugeissona being extremely cold sensitive.  I read this somewhere as well.  Same with Manicaria saccifera.

I think it is accurate to say, generally, ultratropical = zone 11 palms.

Cocos nucifera and Adonidia merrillii are zone 10b.

Euterpe oleracea is zone 11.

Someone sort of mentioned this already. To address this topic, I think we should look at the known and suspected ultratropical palm species (and test some that are unknown cold hardiness-wise) and see what can survive for awhile in coastal areas of extreme South FL without dying from cold.  I don't think any ultratropical palm will survive its full lifespan anywhere in South FL (except maybe the FL Keys, for some species), but clearly some (such as Cyrtostachys renda) can survive a number of years between major cold events in sheltered gardens in extreme South Florida and some (such as Areca macroclyx and Pigafetta, just to name a couple, cannot).

I love this sort of topic.  I am going to do some further research and come up with a couple lists to sort out the wimpiest of the wimpy from the merely wimpy (palms).

 

Edited October 30, 2018 by palmsOrl

[palmsOrl]

Does anyone have any accounts of Manicaria saccifera being tried in FL?

Dransfieldia micrantha is another that is ultratropical, but unlikely to be the hands down winner.

[sarasota alex]

3 hours ago, GottmitAlex said:

I've recently read on the forum that Euterpe oleracea is a lot more cold sensitive than C. Nucifera. Is this true?

No doubt. I had a freeze for two hours last winter. My C. nucifera never skipped a beat and my E. oleracea still hasn't fully recovered more than 9 months later.

[GottmitAlex]

1 hour ago, sarasota alex said:

No doubt. I had a freeze for two hours last winter. My C. nucifera never skipped a beat and my E. oleracea still hasn't fully recovered more than 9 months later.

Thank you for the info.

What were your "freezing" temps? 

[PalmatierMeg]

Manicaria saccifera cannot survive temps below 50F, which makes it zone 12 (50-60F min low). I've read that to be safe, you shouldn't risk exposing it to anything below 60F. Just this past weekend we had a low of 59.2F.  Phoenicophorium borsigianum is strictly a zone 11+ palm and cannot tolerate temps below 45F. As it grows up to 50' tall in habitat it gets too large to move or protect, assuming it survives that long. I've pondered trying it but the arctic tundra that is Cape Coral in winter will be lethal. The black spines don't help matters.

[sarasota alex]

7 hours ago, GottmitAlex said:

Thank you for the info.

What were your "freezing" temps? 

Bottomed out at 30F. Overall 2 hours below 32F - about 30 minutes at 31F, followed by about 60 minutes at 30F, then another 30 minutes at 31F.

[sarasota alex]

7 hours ago, GottmitAlex said:

Thank you for the info.

What were your "freezing" temps? 

E. oleracea is also more "cool" sensitive. Sensitive to non-tropical daytime lows. The E. oleracea I had in my previous yard never saw a freeze in almost 3 years that I had it, but one year we had a stretch of 5-6 days with daytime highs not exceeding 65F and it produced severely stunted leaves from all three stems. The coconut I had there also did not look happy btw. In those 3 years however, Euterpe went 1 gal to beginning to show trunk at the bottom of the largest stem.