New delivery from Floribunda

[dp92651]

A big thanks to Jeff Marcus for feeding the addiction with a total of 31 newbies. I thought I would give some of these a shot to see if they work for so-cal. Namely, B. Vieillardii & hapala.

I put everything under 40% shade cloth to make their future acclimation to full sun a bit easier.

Full list is:

B. Candapanna (I'll post some of these for sale next year).

Veitchia Joannis

V. Metiti

Pinanga Javana

K. Oliviformis

K. Magnifica

B. Hapala

B. Vieillardii

Basselinia Grabrata

Curious if anyone has any imput.

[Bags]

Nice! I love getting a Floribunda order. My imput is to plant the K. magnifica. I have killed so many of those things in pots. I planted the two I got a few years ago as small 4'' plants. They are both doing great. In fact if you do not have a greenhouse plant everything with a shade tent over each plant until spring or they are ready for sun. I think plants do way better in the ground.

Hapala is as good as they get for SoCal. Viellardii a little more touchy but a great plant as well.

BTW Dypsis sp. white is another that I have killed over and over again in pots. I planted the last one I got a few years ago and it is a happy plant.

[doranakandawatta]

I love getting a Floribunda order too!

I got seedlings but best quality !

I too have Dypsis sp. White which I repotted in a small pot, let's see what happens but I believe our climate in Doranakanda helps!

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Oh yes, bows to Floribunda for making rare palms affordable for the masses. I also acclimate my stuff in some shade, but anything that comes in 1 gallon pots I don't usually bother to acclimate. I plant any sun loving 1 gallon straight in full sun and it's done very well for me that way. Since you're in Laguna Beach you're coastal, so it should be fine. Just watch out for those Santa Anas. I have fond memories of Santa Ana winds growing up in Socal but Hawaiian grown palms don't have the same affinity.

Don't forget to bow to the southwest and thank Pele for the bounty, she's also the Godess of wind!

[MattyB]

Keep the P. javana out of the sun and work that K. oliviformis into the sun as soon as possible.

[DoomsDave]

All of them will work. I have all of them, alive and well at my Death Camp at Shangri La Habra.

I disagree with Matt about shade for the Kentiopsis ollie, unless you're giving it LOTS OF WATER, enough to float the Titanic . . .

[dp92651]

All of them will work. I have all of them, alive and well at my Death Camp at Shangri La Habra.

I disagree with Matt about shade for the Kentiopsis ollie, unless you're giving it LOTS OF WATER, enough to float the Titanic . . .

That can be arranged.

Thanks to all for the suggestions. I comprimised w/ the K.O. and put it in a spot where it gets direct sun for a bit before the shade cloth takes over.

That 40% seems to hit the spot...I feel the sun beating down when underneath it, just takes the edge off. I figure it'll also protect from the winter winds that can get pretty severe here on the coast.

I know its common to hear to not put plants in the ground in the fall...what is the full rational for this? I dont get frost here in laguna, and soil temps probably dont get much worst than those in the pots.

[DoomsDave]

dp:

The reason for not planting palms in the fall (mostly) is that they want heat, and after fall, heat falls away till spring.

Many heat loving plants croak if you move them in the fall.

Some palms like the cool, though, and the distinction is critical.

[Bags]

All of them will work. I have all of them, alive and well at my Death Camp at Shangri La Habra.

I disagree with Matt about shade for the Kentiopsis ollie, unless you're giving it LOTS OF WATER, enough to float the Titanic . . .

That can be arranged.

Thanks to all for the suggestions. I comprimised w/ the K.O. and put it in a spot where it gets direct sun for a bit before the shade cloth takes over.

That 40% seems to hit the spot...I feel the sun beating down when underneath it, just takes the edge off. I figure it'll also protect from the winter winds that can get pretty severe here on the coast.

I know its common to hear to not put plants in the ground in the fall...what is the full rational for this? I dont get frost here in laguna, and soil temps probably dont get much worst than those in the pots.

I think the problem with planting in fall is if a plant gets sunburned badly or suffers transplant shock it is going to sit there all winter and not be able to grow out of it. If you shade tent it you avoid sunburning it and carefully dropping a potted plant into a planting hole should not give it the shock that a field grown transplant would suffer. I have planted all year around using shade cloth and have had great luck, much better luck than keeping things potted. This is just my opinion, but I think pot culture leads to more fungal problems because it creates an unnatural environment where some bad fungus might thrive and the good fungus may not. In the ground mother nature has a way of keeping things balanced. Plus plants just get fatter and grow better in the ground.

[DoomsDave]

Bags:

Near the coast, maybe.

Inland, the heat dissipates.

I recommend waiting till spring.

[Bags]

Dave,

What is the difference between a plant sitting outside in a pot vs sitting outside in the ground? Both will experience the same conditions. I think the plant in the ground would be more protected as the soil will stay warmer than a pot.

[DoomsDave]

Bags:

Great question!

In the pot, you can move it if you have to. IN the ground, maybe not.

In the pot, you can adjust the environment. In the ground, not so much.

Unless, of course, you have a place where there isn't much difference.

If you worry about the plant, keep it in the pot till spring. A word from the Killer of The Death Camp of La Habra, who has killed a lot, and he aint' proud.

[Bags]

I guess there can be some money spots in the yard. A south facing wall that gets blasted by the sun will give a lot of the winter heat that some plants need. I think I am just too lazy to go the extra mile for my plants. Get busy living or get busy dying is my motto.

[LJG]

Aaron, I plant year round too for more hardy stuff. But I have found the tender stuff does much better with Spring planting. Not just from the GH but also my outside pot growing area. Soil temps will always be warmer in pots than the damp SoCal winter soils. Plus you can control moisture more in pots. I have seen so many times from my experience and witnessing in other gardens where people think because they got a tender plant through some winters in pots that that translates to how they will do in the ground (not saying you did this). I had some Carpoxylons I grew outside for a few winters in pots. Big FL plants. Once planted they never made it through February. Had the same thing happen with Central American rainforest cycads, crotons and tropical flowering trees too.

I have seen your garden so I know you know what you are doing and every microclimate is different, but if you ever decide to plant a Carpoxylon - wait till Spring

[Hammer]

I can attest to the wisdom of Len and Dave. I've learned hard lessons attempting to put plants in the ground in late Fall. Was kicking myself for months afterwards.

[Jim in Los Altos]

When do you guys consider it autumn anyway? It's early September and my soils are the warmest they've been all summer. I plant more tender stuff this time of year than in spring, when my soils are cold and damp, at least until late very spring. By the end of autumn, they've had enough time to spread their roots are are ready for some winter dormancy. Last week I planted a one gallon Dictosperma rubrum and I measured the soil temperature 12 inches down at 84F. In early May it would be closer to 60 to 65F. I rarely lose newly planted palms but I've had a lot of loss with potted ones. Tomorrow, I'm planting out a Dypsis pembana I've had a couple of years that almost croaked in its pot last winter. It's really marginal here but worth a try. By the way Derek and Phillipe, those are great looking plants. Jeff Marcus is the god of rare baby palms!

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

When do you guys consider it autumn anyway? It's early September and my soils are the warmest they've been all summer. I plant more tender stuff this time of year than in spring, when my soils are cold and damp, at least until late very spring. By the end of autumn, they've had enough time to spread their roots are are ready for some winter dormancy. Last week I planted a one gallon Dictosperma rubrum and I measured the soil temperature 12 inches down at 84F. In early May it would be closer to 60 to 65F. I rarely lose newly planted palms but I've had a lot of loss with potted ones. Tomorrow, I'm planting out a Dypsis pembana I've had a couple of years that almost croaked in its pot last winter. It's really marginal here but worth a try. By the way Derek and Phillipe, those are great looking plants. Jeff Marcus is the god of rare baby palms!

Ditto here, potted plants croak, stuff in the ground does much better for me, but then again, I don't try to grow carpoxylon, that would be dead by February no matter when I plant it. Like Jim, I am still planting stuff now as well, soil is toasty. My dypsis pembama has been in the ground since about June. The water feeding it dries up in early November for Winter hibernation.

To me, Winter shut down doesn't really start until thanksgiving, there's plenty of growing season left until then. Some palms like copernicia like to spread their roots deep and just don't do well in pots anyway.

Someone gave me a 15 gallon Dypsis Heteromorpha that was half dead to try to revive it. it just didn't like the Gilroy Winters. When I transplanted it, I ended up pruning off over 70% of the roots because they had rotted off. Not sure the thing will survive. There is nothing highland'ish about Dypsis Heteromorpha, it seems to be as heat thirsty and cold intolerant as dypsis lutescens. And this is yet another testament to the problems with over-Wintering tender palms in pots. Although Len has a point when he suggests a pot can be moved into a spot where the sun will warm up the roots.

[LJG]

When do you guys consider it autumn anyway? It's early September and my soils are the warmest they've been all summer. I plant more tender stuff this time of year than in spring, when my soils are cold and damp, at least until late very spring. By the end of autumn, they've had enough time to spread their roots are are ready for some winter dormancy. Last week I planted a one gallon Dictosperma rubrum and I measured the soil temperature 12 inches down at 84F. In early May it would be closer to 60 to 65F. I rarely lose newly planted palms but I've had a lot of loss with potted ones. Tomorrow, I'm planting out a Dypsis pembana I've had a couple of years that almost croaked in its pot last winter. It's really marginal here but worth a try. By the way Derek and Phillipe, those are great looking plants. Jeff Marcus is the god of rare baby palms!

I stop planting by mid to late September for where I live. After that you are not going to get much root growth out of a tropical plant in the next month to two months with an Indian Summer. Again, this is only for the more tender plants. I am sure guys like Gary can get away with more since the western exposure slope heats up nicely in winter.

Not referring to any one person, but I am surprised so many people have issues growing in pots. I couldn't imagine what Marcus or other nurserymen would do with the troubles of pot culture I am reading about here. I guess if you have pot culture issues than I would agree to plant year round since it sounds like they would die in pots for you.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

When do you guys consider it autumn anyway? It's early September and my soils are the warmest they've been all summer. I plant more tender stuff this time of year than in spring, when my soils are cold and damp, at least until late very spring. By the end of autumn, they've had enough time to spread their roots are are ready for some winter dormancy. Last week I planted a one gallon Dictosperma rubrum and I measured the soil temperature 12 inches down at 84F. In early May it would be closer to 60 to 65F. I rarely lose newly planted palms but I've had a lot of loss with potted ones. Tomorrow, I'm planting out a Dypsis pembana I've had a couple of years that almost croaked in its pot last winter. It's really marginal here but worth a try. By the way Derek and Phillipe, those are great looking plants. Jeff Marcus is the god of rare baby palms!

I stop planting by mid to late September for where I live. After that you are not going to get much root growth out of a tropical plant in the next month to two months with an Indian Summer. Again, this is only for the more tender plants.

Not referring to any one person, but I am surprised so many people have issues growing in pots. I couldn't imagine what Marcus or other nurserymen would do with the troubles of pot culture I am reading about here. I guess if you have pot culture issues than I would agree to plant year round since it sounds like they would die in pots for you.

Len, I would agree with mid Sept being the limit for tender palms. Remember that Jeff Marcus lives in Hawaii where its warm. I only get poor pot performance on things that have poor chill tolerance.

[Bags]

I think a large part of the problem is the growing area I have for pots gets very little sun and even less heat. I am sure guys inland a little more have quite a few winter days in the 70s and more warmth in general. I don't hit 70 consistently till july so the heat could be an issue. I am not plating too much of the real tender stuff so my experience is mostly with new cal and dypsis.

Len. I actually had a carpoxylon breeze through winter in a pot only to have spider mites kill it in summer. Mattyb has the only one I have seen growing outdoors for any length of time.

For me I get the the best growth August-October. November is still good too.