Another palm in trouble.

[sarasota alex]

This Hyphaene thebaica is one of the first palms I'd planted. It's been in the ground for 4 years. It began to exhibit bud rot symptoms, that are quickly onsetting. The two youngest leaves are dead, but the all including the spear are still firm. I've been treating it with Daconil. Spraying it inside the bud.

I need an opinion on whether I should put some peroxide in now or wait until after the spear pulls. Please chime in everyone.

I guess 43 inches of rain in 4 months is a bit too much for a desert palm.

[Phoenikakias]

Pine bark on soil top of a desert palm?! How many pines grow in the desert? Were I you I would have it already removed. As one other member from a temperate region wisely stated, better a healthy long living slow(er) growing palm, than a fast grower and goner. I do not know how your basic soil is like, but I have watched on tv a documentary showing among other things another desert palm the Wissmania. People there had dug out deep trenches for infrastructure and I had the opportunity to observe local soil in its deeper layers. Full of gravel.

[Phoenikakias]

Hyphaena thebaica is one of my dreams and unfortunately it has proved extremely difficult in my region. You have gone so far with this exemplary and it would be great pity if you lose it! Provided that your assesment about the reason for crown rot is correct, I don't see any benefit in to pouring more liquid in to the growing point and thus enhancing internal moisture. You'd better buy Chinosol tablets from a pharmacist and make them powder. Then you pour the powder in to the growing point several times, until palm recovers. This is what i would do!

[sarasota alex]

This palm actually loves being watered, just not overhead. Any time the area around it would be nearly flooded it would throw a leaf after leaf. It's the water in the crown that it doesn't like.

It's been a survivor though. In Jan 2010 only a couple of months after being planted it lost one of the heads (used to be 2-headed). Then a few months later a contractor pressure washing my neighbor's roof spilled chlorine on and around it. Within a few days it only had a single green leaf left. But it made it and has been a strong grower.

Now this.

[Phoenikakias]

... and how can you guarantee that in a not arid climate, as in its own natural habitat, will never get one year an exceptionally high rainfall? Agreed, with flooded ground during hot, sunny weather it grows super fast, but it needs not to be always sunny... I think that by drier ground it can be also more tolerant of high rainfall.

[MattyB]

Hey Alex. Yes, apply hydrogen peroxide now and often. But unfortunately I think you're going to have to behead that thing in order to really have a chance to save it. As you know, the apical meristem is the heart of the plant and once that's dead your palm is dead, even if it's holding all those green outside/lower leaves. Start cutting, top down until your cross sections are free of the black rotting stuff, then apply hydrogen peroxide right on that growing point. Good luck man.

See the "Case of the Rotting Onily" in this thread. http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/29469-desperate-times/?hl=behead#entry591461 This palm now has several inches of fat woody trunk, a full crown, and is very happy. It would not have lived if I didn't cut it's head off.

[sarasota alex]

Thanks Matt! I've never beheaded anything in my life! My hands would be shaking!

[Phoenikakias]

Not even a chicken? Just kidding

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

I've got one of these growing here, it's quite slow because of my cool nights but still doing ok. It's on the top of my hill, it grows on about 2 feet of top soil with a lot of sandstone, under which there is just pure sand. It's in the rain shadow as well, so it gets little precipitation in the Winter.

[Phoenikakias]

Now that has surprised me enormously Axel! Lucky you that you can grow thebaica there. If it succeeds you should try also Medemia. Beheading is a clear and radical solution, but its success depends very much on the regeneration ability of the relevant palm sp, which again may vary from place to place and from climate to climate. Besides one has to take special care not to cut off entire meristem!

[Jerry@TreeZoo]

I don't have a lot of experience with this one. If the spear still looks good and firm, maybe you are out of danger? Mark it with indelible ink and see if it is growing at all. The rainy season is over now so maybe it is OK.

One thing that I noticed is the proximity to your house. Is it right under the roof overhang, getting tons of water in the crown when it rains? If so, and it pulls through, you might consider moving it.

[sarasota alex]

Planning was poor I agree, but then again - my yard is so tiny that I don't have much choice. The roof overhand actually doesn't extend that far. It's bigger than it appears on the picture - almost 6' to the tip of the tallest necrotic leaf.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Now that has surprised me enormously Axel! Lucky you that you can grow thebaica there. If it succeeds you should try also Medemia. Beheading is a clear and radical solution, but its success depends very much on the regeneration ability of the relevant palm sp, which again may vary from place to place and from climate to climate. Besides one has to take special care not to cut off entire meristem!

I've resisted the temptation to try Medemia. Someone offered one to me this year. I think the thebaica stands a chance but it's occupying the only spot in the entire garden where either thebaica or medemia stand a chance.

[Phoenikakias]

Planning was poor I agree, but then again - my yard is so tiny that I don't have much choice. The roof overhand actually doesn't extend that far. It's bigger than it appears on the picture - almost 6' to the tip of the tallest necrotic leaf.

Alex, watch, if the roof has tiles, direction and incline of tile grooves. If grooving is not directed to the palm no problem. Moreover seems to me as problem the arching frond of another palm right above Hyphaena's growing point.

[cfkingfish]

All of our overhead rain this summer I am sure is the cause of this. Pull those leaves out and clean it out like a bad wound, and like Matt said, pour half a small bottle of peroxide in it. Might want to cover it from irrigation for a bit too.

[sarasota alex]

So two weeks later - no change. No growth new growth. No other leaves have been affected. The two necrotic leaves and the spear are holding on very firmly.

In another thread we talked about weevils attacking healthy Bismarckia (relatives of Hyphaene) in Sarasota. http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/39146-a-walk-around-the-neighborhood-today-warning-nasty-stuff/

Symptoms certainly seem to be similar. And if it was truly rotting, I would probably have pulled something by now. If it's the weevils indeed - any chance of me saving this palm?

[Phoenikakias]

I face two years long the same dilema every time a palm gets sick, I am not sure at all whether it is an rpw attack, usually combined with secondary fungal infection, or plain fungal/bacterial disease Alex if you have doubts then there is only one way; follow regarding growing point an antifungal/antibacterial treatment and spray the stem and leave boots with an odor insecticide (3 cc chlorpyrifos/lt water) and watch out for eventual dead weevils aroud plant. Do not spray directly in to the appex, to avoid excessive moisture. You can also apply around root zone 40 cc dimethoat/ 10 lt water. Many cocoons are hidden below ground near the stem.

[sarasota alex]

Konstantinos, it wouldn't be the RPW that is wrecking havoc in the Mediterranean - luckily we don't have it in Florida. We have a native Palmetto Weevil, which as Keith (Zeeth) mentioned in the other thread attacks healthy Bismarckia here. My assumption is that it may be possible for it to attack a healthy Hyphaene as well, being that these genera are closely related.

[Kostas]

Both of those weevils are Rhynchophorus species,with similar likes and life cycles so what kills one,kills the other too.

What I have found growing Hyphaene compressa is that when they get rot on the leafs or spear,it usually progresses really fast and stops at the junction of leafbase-petiole,which is good. Maybe something similar happened to yours and will grow out of it just fine.

Best of luck for quick(as can be with Hyphaene...) and successful recovery!!!

[sarasota alex]

Both of those weevils are Rhynchophorus species,with similar likes and life cycles so what kills one,kills the other too.

What I have found growing Hyphaene compressa is that when they get rot on the leafs or spear,it usually progresses really fast and stops at the junction of leafbase-petiole,which is good. Maybe something similar happened to yours and will grow out of it just fine.

Best of luck for quick(as can be with Hyphaene...) and successful recovery!!!

Thanks! I am going to listen in with a stethoscope this week to see if there is any chewing going on. I read somewhere that when a weevil infestation gets bad you can actually hear them.

[Kostas]

Yes,you do can hear them when it's really bad,and pretty easily. But on early stages that's difficult even with a stethoscope. If your palm's damage were from weevils though,you do should be able to hear them as that would be a pretty bad stage.

[sarasota alex]

I just went out to listen with a stethoscope and it's all quite. I will listen again tomorrow during the day.

[Phoenikakias]

I just went out to listen with a stethoscope and it's all quite. I will listen again tomorrow during the day.

Now this is a very thorough approach!

[Moose]

Alex - Manganese sulfate applied either in powder form or poured in as a drench may be beneficial. It worked for me on my Copernicia hospita after everthing else had failed. Couldn't hurt ...

[sarasota alex]

Alex - Manganese sulfate applied either in powder form or poured in as a drench may be beneficial. It worked for me on my Copernicia hospita after everthing else had failed. Couldn't hurt ...

Thanks Moose!

Good news - the spear is moving!