Lowering soil ph

[Mike M]

From what I can tell my soil ph runs in the high 7's to mid eights on the ph scale. My water is at 8.4 ph. I am having trouble with the palms taking in valuable nutrients an I believe it's due to a high ph in the soil Palms are looking chlorotic.

I am planning on adding compost to the top layers of soil around the palms and broadcasting sulfur powder as well.

Does anyone have experience in lowering soil ph this way or any additional ideas

Thanks

Mike

[Tyrone]

Your water pH will be a problem. Your soil is in slightly better shape. Is it well/bore water you are using? If so, it is being drawn straight out of limestone rock to be 8.4. You can amend your soil, but every time you irrigate you'll be undoing your hard work. I'd be considering an injection pump into your system. Not cheap of course. This will inject a carefully calibrated amount of acid into the system every time you irrigate. While you are there you could also use it to inject fertiliser every time you irrigate too.

Just a thought.

[PalmatierMeg]

Mulch heavily. I have very alkaline soil and mulch is the best way for me to deal with it. Anything else is temporary at best. You may have to watch for nutrient deficiencies.

[Mike M]

It's San Diego city water. Extremely hard. Anyone else in San Diego have this issue?

[LJG]

Mike, you need to put down a few inches of compost for a few years. This is the best time of year to do it I have found. It will rain and break it down and get it into the soil. I have placed about 8 inches of compost over the last few years and now only need to put mulch on top as my soil is pretty organic on top now.

[Mike M]

Is it best to dig the top few inches of soil and top dress with compost? What about sulfur powder as well.

[trioderob]

plant tillage radish

grow fast and when it dies - it adds organics deep into the soil

what ever you do - do not dig up the top layers of soil - thats old school and a poor method.

(kills soil microbes and brings up dormant weed seeds )

Google : "green manure " & "back to eden garden"

you can pick up a green manure and inoculate mix at Johnny seeds

Edited December 4, 2013 by trioderob

[trioderob]

you can also plant rye which has an insane root system

Edited December 4, 2013 by trioderob

[trioderob]

you could even try hairy vetch which pull nitrogen right out of the air and are based on a symbiotic relationship with bacteria

Edited December 4, 2013 by trioderob

[trioderob]

you could go all around your area collecting leaves and put them in a shreader like this and and to top of soil:

[trioderob]

you could go on craigs list and get bunch cow dung manure

Edited December 4, 2013 by trioderob

[trioderob]

you could buy or rent a wood chipper and throw a bunch o branches thru it with live leaf.

toss that stuff on top and let the winter rains rot it

[trioderob]

[Mike M]

Ok. Enough with the pics. I am looking for some advice. If I wanted comedy I would go to a comedy website. Thanks.

[trioderob]

you got good advice.

open your eyes

[Zeeth]

Ok. Enough with the pics. I am looking for some advice. If I wanted comedy I would go to a comedy website. Thanks.

Everything he said was good advice though. Besides injecting acid into the water before irrigation, making the soil very rich in organics is the only thing you can do.

[Mike M]

Thanks for the info.

[MattyB]

I like Triode's idea of using roots of a cover crop to inject organics into the sub soil. I've done this with tomato plants because they grow fast and have very deep roots. Also, any legume tree like acacia are nitrogen fixers so you can let them grow for a few years and hack them down as needed. A. dealbata is awesome. But haven't those large eucalyptus behind your house already penetrated through your soil? That was an interesting observation. Have you ever burned a palm with fertilizer? Maybe you need to add extra due to the eucs.

But back to your ph issue. My soil is about 8.4 and my water is 8.0 minimum (test kit doesn't go any higher), so I'm not convinced you have a major ph problem. Your stuff that's not on the hill looks great. I think you're having a hell of a time with your sandstone and steep slope. I agree with the recommendation to continue to keep a thick layer of quality compost applied. Also, jackhammering a larger hole and mixing the backfill with compost should help.

[Mike M]

Thanks matty. I am going to load up on compost. I am going to attempt to jackhammer or hammer drill through the hardpan. I know the euc roots are on the hill but how is my c. Macrocarpa growing like a weed and a simple p. robelinni is chlorotic.

Mike

[Kris]

dear mike,

what kind of palms are you going to grow in that soil.you have not informed us that ?

some palms like acidic soil and some alkaline and some normal soils.

I have clayey soil and well water is not acidic.but in I live in a flattened plain.so during mansoon rains some exotic desert palms did rot.

so I dug up the clayey soil 3feet by 3feet and 3 feet deep.

but there were instance that we dug up 4x4 and 9 feet depth.

you want believe that how bad it rains no water stagnates on top soil area in our entire garden.

by the way the dug up pits were refilled with washed river sand.

And it's traditional here to dig 3x3x3 pit to plant coconut saplings and for teak.

along with sand,redsand,lots of humas and even dead dog corpse are put in the pit and after 6 or 8 months the coconut palm is planted with dried cowdung manure to dress the top soil area.

And if your ground water is bad then try xerophytes palms and plants.which could sustain only from rains.

As the proverb goes. ..No pain no gain.

if you find time surf my old threads where you can see stills of the entire clayey soil dig up process. Since iam visiting our forum through my mobile phone.iam unable to use the search feature of my threads to help you any further.

love,

kris.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Kris

[sonoranfans]

the sulfur idea is a good one if you have calcerous(high calcium soils) soils, but don't use powder, use pellets. pellets take longer to break down and don't blow away when dry or rinse away when it rains. Sulfur pellets will lower pH gradually, but perhaps more importantly they break up calcerous soils so they drain better. this happens by the reaction of the biodegraded sulfur with calcium to form gypsum.
first:
1) s+ microbes-> S04
2) (2)S04+ Ca:Ca-> (2)CaS04

the problem is Calcium binding with itself, and adding gypsum doesn't solve that in high calcium soils, it just adds even more calcium. The available sulfate breaks up the bound calcium, gypsum has no available sulfate as it already has its calcium. Now this solution to improving drainage works for calcerous soils only. Calcerous soils also can cause water wetting problems, and if you have hard water I would expect this problem would arise over time in a dry climate with little rain. Wetting can be enhanced to start by using a surfactant, SDS(or SLS) sodium dodecyl sulfate at about 1 tsp per 3 gallon. Don't add too much of this as it adds sodium. It is a once every 4-6 month treatment, about 3 gallon dilute per 10 square feet. I had calcerous soils in Arizona and it broke up the hardpan nicely, dramatically improving drainage. the hard soil will end up being soft on the feet. you will need to do this for a few years, perhaps adding sulfur 2-3 times a year and working it into the top 2-3" soil and making sure it gets nice and wet during watering.
pelletized sulfur:
http://www.midlandhardware.com/131416.html?gclid=CI2xzvyonLsCFUtp7AodPx0ApQ#.UqIjgF_TmUk