Speeding up Seed Germination

[CYPALMS]

After spending time to read about palm seed germination and after losing few seeds from mold due to long time of inactivity, and after reading John's posts "tickling the embryo" and "old seed germination", i decided to sacrifice 1 seed of each species i am trying to germinate, to locate the embryo and try the "de-lidding" process to see if it would work. After all, what's the difference of destroying a seed with a knife and losing it from fungus?

So let this be a guide to those who are trying to germinate the following seeds with no success so far

1. Hyophorbe lagenicaulis

I received the seeds on May 10th 2013 (nearly 7 months). Although they were cleaned from fruit, the seeds slowly developed mold on the exterior surface, and when the germination process had initiated at some point, the embryo was already taken over by fungus. Last week i decided to try and delid one of the remaining seeds, quickly spotted the embryo just off the lateral pole of the seed after scratching it with a sharp knife and using a very sharp blade i slowly reached the "lid". This species indeed has a lid covering the embryo, which pops easily with the point of the blade. The photo shows 3 seeds in different stages, and the experience here shows that the embryo needs 3-4 days submerged in water to bulge out of the seed.

2. Kentiopsis oliviformis

Received the seeds on July 10th 2013 (5 months). Although none has rotten yet, they all just seed there doing nothing. Again, 1 seed was the tester. These seeds have a hard hairy outer covering which closes at the south pole of the seed and is easily removed. Since there is no obvious use for this, i guess it is recommended to remove it since it may prove a backdoor for fungus, keeping extra moisture around the seed. This species also has a small lid covering the embryo and it has also been removed using a fine pointing blade. The size of the seed makes it a bit harder to work with, but with little patience you will be fine. This one took 2 days for the embryo to emerge from the seed and so far no problems whatsoever.

3. Brahea armata

Received the seeds on May 10th 2013 (nearly 7 months). Notoriously known for longgggg germination times this one had to be tried. The embryo is located just below the small tip on the top of the seed, and on the upper side (the seed has a flat side distinguishing it from the upper side). Contrary to the previous 2, Brahea armata doesnt have a "lid". Used a sharp knife to scratch the hard outer shell and when this was removed i had to use a scalpel blade to remove very thin slices of the mesocarp to expose the embryo without damaging it. However, this one was the most rewarding, as it had the embryo swollen in only 12 hours. So, you can forget the 1.5 years waiting for germination on this species and proceed right upon receiving the seeds to expose the embryo and initiate germination.

4. Clinostigma exorrhizum

Received the seeds on July 10th (5 months). Tiny seeds, hard to work with, had to disinfect them 3 times to prevent them from rotting. 1 of them had managed to start the germination process but was attacked instantly by fungus and never made it. The brave seed showed where the embryo was located and that is the north pole of the seed. Due to small size of the seed, the scalpel blade was used to clean the hard exocarp, and shave the mesocarp to expose the embryo. No "lid" here also, so extra care should be taken when shaving off the top of the seed. When this was completed, it took 5 days for the germination to initiate, with the seed submerged to water.

Apart from those described above, few other species are in the process and will follow when there is a definite result. Those include Bismarckia nobilis silver, Licuala peltata var. sumawongii, Bentinckia condapanna and Kentiopsis pyriformis. Others may follow depending on what else will not germinate in a logical time frame

And again, cant thank enough john for showing the way and all other members who have posted germination information for so many species.

[Zeeth]

Thanks for bring up this technique! I too have a batch of Kentiopsis oliviformis that have been waiting 5 months with no germination. I'll try it and see what happens!

[Zeeth]

I did this to 7 K. oliviformis seeds, and it was very bizarre. Three them had no embryo at all. Two a very sunken embryo, and 2 had what looked like healthy embryos. I find this bizarre, because I picked the seeds fresh from underneath a very healthy palm, so I have no idea why the seeds would be so inconsistent. I still have about 60 untouched seeds, so hopefully it's a better story for those seeds. I'd like to get a few plants out of these seeds though, so I'll keep an eye on the seeds that I've exposed the embryos and hopefully from there decide if I should pick away at more seeds.

[CYPALMS]

Keith, at least now you will know what to expect and not just sit and wait forever a non-existent embryo to come out .

I hope the rest of those seeds are healthy and you end up with many more seedlings

[Zeeth]

The embryos of the two I mentioned have moved about a millimeter since yesterday. I've got them sitting in distilled water on a heating pad, so maybe this is the way to go with the rest of the seeds! I'll let these grow a little more before I do it to more though.

[Zeeth]

24 hours after exposing the embryo. I exposed a few more, and I'm going to see if it's better for them to grow in distilled water or if they can go right into sterilized sphagnum.

[CYPALMS]

They would probably grow in both. The main reason i have chosen water for this early stage of germination is simply because it can be changed regularly and the seeds are visible at all times, so you can always check for fungus, or even the germination itself. I was a bit sceptic to throw them directly to spagnum or other medium (perlite/vermiculite) simply because however sterilised they may be, you can always carry pathogens with your hands, clamps or even airborne. And with the endocarp exposed in such a way, you are inviting them for a feast. I know water contains oxygen and many pathogens may very well develop under water but since there is no issue so far for me keeping them submerged for few days, i will stick to this.

Note that when the "button" starts to differentiate to a root or a sinker, the seeds will be transferred to a sterile medium of course. They will not stay under water for ever. I did mention though that the seeds are submerged because i think there is a misunderstanding with how long seeds can stay in these conditions.

I have so far experienced germination while submerged in water for Cyrtostachys renda (1 week) , Licuala ramsayi (4 - 30 days and kept germinating), Johannesteijsmania altifrons (10 - 25 days), Socratea exorrhizum (3 - 40 days) and of course the 4 species above. They were then moved to either perlite/vermiculite or cocopeat when the button would start to form a root or a sinker and all are doing just fine. No rotting at all. I have realised the same way that no Dypsis species i have tried so far should be kept underwater, perhaps not even few hours presoaking. The species i have tried so far had very tiny embryos and very very near to the surface and they all subsequently rotted after very short presoaking. I am waiting a new order of Dypsis seeds now to arrive and will give them a shot first delidding them and then putting it for a while in water to see what happens.

Any advice ,comments or experiences on the above are more than welcome.

[KennyRE317]

so you guys germinate in distilled water until you see the start of a root and then pot it up?

[CYPALMS]

I do so for those seeds that have undergone the process shown above.

As for the rest of the species i mentioned in my later post, it was more of an observation while i was doing the traditional presoaking of the seeds, some seeds would crack at some point and the "button" would come out while still being underwater. As soon as the button would show any sign of differentiation like a tiny tip downwards, i would remove it from water and put it in sphagnum to continue the germination in a proper medium.

[Zeeth]

so you guys germinate in distilled water until you see the start of a root and then pot it up?

I've always used Sphagnum as my go to germination material, but my thought is that the delidding technique opens up space for fungus to enter the seed, which is why I'm using the water until the seedling is large enough.

[tjwalters]

I posted this in January 2012 http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/31506-rapid-germination-of-rhapidophyllum-hystrix-seed/ on speeding up germination of Rhapidophyllum hystrix seeds. I've since germinated many of these seeds relatively quickly - and it's so easy. I suppose it could apply to some other species.

[CYPALMS]

Update to the list of successfully germinated seeds using the "delidding" process

5. Bismarckia nobilis (silver)

The batch of these arrived in early july. Following the traditional technique they were placed in moist cocopeat. a week later 40% had germinated on its own. Since then the rest 60% was sitting in the bag doing nothing and signs of rotting began to appear on 1 of the seeds. The embryo of Bismarckia is located right at the center of the south pole of the seed which is very easily identifiable. Seed is enclosed in a very hard and rigid exocarp, resembling a walnut. No, i didnt use a nutcracker . A knife was used to break the bottom of the seed which separates safely from the mesocarp. It is a large seed and very vigorous when germinating, so dont bother to clean all the exocarp since it will not affect at all the germination process. The mesocarp is a leather-like layer encapsulating firmly the endocarp, and the embryo tip is obvious underneath it. Sharp blade again scraping around the tip in a circular movement and slowly lifting the mesocarp (lid) covering the embryo. Embryo is a sizeable one, and should exhibit a vivid white colour if healthy. 72 hours submerged in water was enough to initiate germination and the button formed perfectly.

5. Bentinckia condapanna

Little, delicate seeds, appearing like a dried nut. received in mid July and since then none had germinated till last week (5 months) while half of them rotted away. The germination pore is easily identifiable just below the white tip of the top of the seed. This one also has a thin cover above the embryo and it must be lifted carefully not to hurt it. This one took longer to germinate and needed 5 days in water to start the germination.

So far so good, and still none of the seeds shows any sign of rotting or degradation. Germination continues normally for all of the seeds.

More will follow when results are available.

Happy germinating!

[Phoenikakias]

Which is the 'north' and which is the 'south' pole on bismarckia seed? I guess a compass will not help!

[CYPALMS]

North is always meant to mean the top and south the bottom of the seed in those cases which is obvious. In the case of Bismarckia, the top of the seed (or north) is the side with the pointing tip, where the seed was attached to the pedicel of the inflorescence.

However obvious i thought it was, since it needs further clarification i would like to hear a suggestion about how would it be better to call the top and bottom of the seeds or when trying to describe the embryo position in similar cases. After all we are sharing information here to help each other, so suggestions from older members are always welcome

[TheMadScientist]

What doesn't come across sometimes in these postings is a persons sense of humor...but I think beside the vast knowledge that Konstantinos has concerning palms, the use of chemicals/fertilizers.....He has a great sense of humor....So I think he was just being funny.

I'm ok with north and south, I believe I have used the attach point (north) and side opposite (south).

This topic has got me really excited as I have just trashed 2 species that I know for sure were as fresh as if I had picked them and obtained about the same time you did with no action at all. More frustrating for me was knowing that 2 other palmists got their same batches to germinate and I failed, so I'm looking for an improvement over Mother Nature.

[CYPALMS]

What doesn't come across sometimes in these postings is a persons sense of humor...but I think beside the vast knowledge that Konstantinos has concerning palms, the use of chemicals/fertilizers.....He has a great sense of humor....So I think he was just being funny.

I'm ok with north and south, I believe I have used the attach point (north) and side opposite (south).

This topic has got me really excited as I have just trashed 2 species that I know for sure were as fresh as if I had picked them and obtained about the same time you did with no action at all. More frustrating for me was knowing that 2 other palmists got their same batches to germinate and I failed, so I'm looking for an improvement over Mother Nature.

Surely it was never taken as an irony or something. On the contrary i think Konstantinos may have a point there, as it is very common for people to write in ways they themselves understand, often leading to unclear statements. I saw it more like a chance to explain and show with the pic what i perceive to be the north pole and what the south and for that i have to thank Konstantinos for providing the opportunity to do so.

As a general remark following this method and speaking about the species i or others have tried so far, you can achieve close to 100% germination if the seeds are healthy. To be honest i was about to throw some seeds away, but then i thought, why not use them for the benefit of science?

More species will follow soon including now Latania loddigesii, Pritchardia hillebrandii, Pritchardia pacifica, Acoelloraphe wrightii and others if of course there are definite results.

[Phoenikakias]

No irony, just plain humor, behind which a great interest of mine lies hidden. To decorate sometimes pure scientifical or horticultural information with some humor it is merely my taste. After all asking questions for clarification, implies that one has red the initial post carefully and this is the greatest reward for the poster.

It would be besides and further of great interest to observe and record the progress of seedlings from both kinds of germination (natural and 'cesarean', oops another humorous deviation of mine), and especially whether seedlings of the first kind are robuster than those of the second kind.

Edited December 11, 2013 by Phoenikakias

[Phoenikakias]

Have I found the embryo on this Brahea seed and should I expose it more?

[CYPALMS]

Konstantinos, from the pics it appears that u have found it. What is not clear from the picture is if you have delidded it or you just scraped off the mesocarp. Try with a pointy tool to scrape off thin slices around the embryo, not above it, and you should pick the lid as you move from the outside towards the embryo. If you look with a magnifying glass you should see the embryo with a vivid white colour. Try also to spot the tiny tip in the center of the embryo. If you can see this, then you are right on.

Hope it helps. i can post some more pics in a while if you like.

[Phoenikakias]

Yes please I 'd love more pics! And I am confused a little, because this seed I hold between fingers is a Brahea, and you have written above that there is no lid on Brahea seed. So I can not understand in this context the meaning of delidding, maybe exposing a cavity on seed's surface? Did 'lid'on your Brahea seeds have a brown or white color?

Edited December 11, 2013 by Phoenikakias

[CYPALMS]

You are right ti be confused. Delidding can be misleading with some seeds and i used it only because of the previous topics on the same matter. A better term would be "exposing the embryo". In doing so you will find seeds with a distinguishable "lid" which separates the edge of the embryo from the mesocarp and you will also find seeds which the embryo is directly attached to the mesocarp. In the first category there is a meaning to "delid" but in the second category "expose" is more descriptive of what we are doing.

With brahea seeds you expose the embryo.

[CYPALMS]

Brahea armata

Brahea sp. super silver

The first picture is the best i could get from a seed i only exposed the embryo yesterday and it has not swollen yet.

The second one which is again a Brahea but other species, i included because the embryo is more clearly visible and because they share common characteristics since they are in the same genus.

Hope it helps!

Another empirical way to know you have done it right is if after 2 days in water you dont see any sign of the embryo to have moved, it probably means that you have to scrape it a bit more off the top. Unfortunately all of my other brahea seeds have already swollen embryos and for the purpose of the question they are not suitable

[CYPALMS]

Konstandinos, any luck with that brahea seed? You should see signs of the embryo moving by now.

In the meantime, if anyone has any picture of Dypsis lastelliana germinated seed i would appreciate it if it could be posted here. This seed has no indication where it is going to come up from and it seems there is no obvious germination pore. 1 of the seeds which had already been attacked by fungus, had the endocarp completely destroyed so couldnt figure out where the embryo is. The following photo is Dypsis lastelliana, first as it arrived, second with the "husk" removed and third with the next layer removed which i am not sure what it's called. Removing anything beyond this point, exposes the endocarp but since there is no clear germination pore, no reason to do that.

[Phoenikakias]

Sorry for the delayed reply George, I was waiting for the two days soaking period to complete. Here are the pics with no further comments on my behalf, but I expect some comments from you.

At what teperature have you kept seeds during soaking time, and what should I do next?

Besides here is a pic of germinated Arenga seeds. As you can see yourself enbryo in Arenga seeds is positioned dorsally (that is the opposite of the flat side), but only one of germinated seeds sprouted latterally.

[CYPALMS]

Konstandinos it seems you got it right since all but one seem to have the embryo elongated already. I kept the seeds at room temperature which is probably around 20-22 C. I didnt want to put them in higher temperatures to avoid creating an incubator for pathogens. Since the germination initiates at these temperatures i don't see any reason to change it. After the soaking period, i placed the seeds in substrate (cocopeat) to continue with the germination process. I didnt want to pot them directly as i will then have to keep them in the garage which is way lower temperatures (12 - 18C). I guess you can follow your own technique from here on, since the whole point with Brahea seeds seems to be to initiate the germination.

Here is a pic with the seeds 1 week after the exposure of the embryo

Thanx for posting the Arenga germinated seeds, it will prove useful in the future

[CYPALMS]

Kentiopsis oliviformis update

1 week later here is how the seeds look like. I kept half of these in water for the whole week and the other half were placed in perlite/vermiculite. No obvious difference. They are all placed in perlite/vermiculite to continue with the germination now.

[CYPALMS]

7. Licuala peltata var sumawongii

The time is right now to continue with the germination of "dormant" seeds. Latest achievement is the notoriously slow to germinate Licuala peltata varsumawongii. Seeds were received on the 10th of July and after a 3-day soaking in water they were placed in 50/50 perlite/vermiculite. 8 1/2months later and there was not a single sign that something was going to happen. So i picked up the scalpel and initiated the surgical procedure. These seeds have a hard outer shell which is probably impenetrable by water, hence why they take so long to germinate. Using a fine blade it is easy to separate from the seed and the germination pore is clearly visible just below the attach point of the seed.In the photo below the first seed is untreated, the second has the outer shell removed to get to the germination pore,the third one has the "lid" removed just today for exhibition purposes, the fifth seed with the x mark has already rotten and the other 3 have clearly germinated in just 4 days after the "delidding".

[Grasswing]

I have to say that I really love this topic,

do you have any experience with these method on Veitchia or Archontophoenix?

I guess you use distilled water for your experiments.

Thanks for sharing,

Andrew

[CYPALMS]

Hi Andrew

With veitchia i havent tried yet and with archontophoenix germination was pretty fast to try it. I will have my own harvest of archontophoenix in a couple of months and will surely try it then.

As for the water i use regular tap water and never bothered with distilled although i am not claiming that there are no differences

[Cindy Adair]

Very interesting information! Thanks!

[Phoenikakias]

Farkonis, this is a very lovely topic! Now some update from my experiment with Brahea seeds. All Brahea seeds rotted, but I repeated experiment with Brahea seeds from my own armata, which have not germinated for 6 months since harvest. Out of four seeds two germinate and two rotted. The one of the germinated seedlings is astonishingly fast, within a week from germination radicle was already two long fro the bag and started growing also aerial part. Only difference from previous seed batch is that I did not presoak seeds after exposure of embryo. I placed them instead directly in sowing medium consisting of 25% universal soil, 25% sand and 50% perlite.

[CYPALMS]

Here is an update for some of the species i managed to shoot.

Kentiopsis oliviformis update

Out of the 10 seeds that had been processed back in December, 2 finally rotted while the other 8 went on with the germination as seen in the picture below. They look just fine and one of the seeds has already been potted to test if it can handle regular soil and moisture.

Brahea Armata update

Out of the 8 seeds, 3 rotted after soaking in water and placed back in baggie with coco coir, while the other 5 went on with germination and have already been potted. One of the reasons i believe that some of them rot, is because there is no clear indication of the germination pore, and we have to expose a relatively large part of the endocarp to get to the embryo, and that makes the seed prone to fungal attack.

Brahea sp Super Silver update

10 out of 12 made it with these species and they are doing fine.

Perhaps it was the wrong time of the year we started this experimentation, back in early December, but as spring sets in and temperatures go up i think we will experience faster growth rates for the tiny seedlings.

Konstantinos, the decision to put them in water after exposing the embryo was based on the impression i got, that once the germination initiates it is harder for the seed to be attacked by pathogens because of the fast transitions occurring in its physiology. The embryo will definitely take its moisture from the soil if placed directly there, but it will probably take longer. So it remains to be tested with more seeds, or if you have a big enough number of seeds available perhaps you could try a comparison test.

[Palmdude]

Great post! Can't wait to try this with Atalea Cahune

[MattyB]

Amazing!

[Phoenikakias]

Here is an update for some of the species i managed to shoot.

Kentiopsis oliviformis update

Out of the 10 seeds that had been processed back in December, 2 finally rotted while the other 8 went on with the germination as seen in the picture below. They look just fine and one of the seeds has already been potted to test if it can handle regular soil and moisture.

Kentiopsis_oliviformis_update.JPG

Brahea Armata update

Out of the 8 seeds, 3 rotted after soaking in water and placed back in baggie with coco coir, while the other 5 went on with germination and have already been potted. One of the reasons i believe that some of them rot, is because there is no clear indication of the germination pore, and we have to expose a relatively large part of the endocarp to get to the embryo, and that makes the seed prone to fungal attack.

Brahea_Armata_Update.JPG

Brahea sp Super Silver update

10 out of 12 made it with these species and they are doing fine.

Brahea_Sp_Super_Silver_Update.JPG

Perhaps it was the wrong time of the year we started this experimentation, back in early December, but as spring sets in and temperatures go up i think we will experience faster growth rates for the tiny seedlings.

Konstantinos, the decision to put them in water after exposing the embryo was based on the impression i got, that once the germination initiates it is harder for the seed to be attacked by pathogens because of the fast transitions occurring in its physiology. The embryo will definitely take its moisture from the soil if placed directly there, but it will probably take longer. So it remains to be tested with more seeds, or if you have a big enough number of seeds available perhaps you could try a comparison test.

Yet I cleaned out a seed from fruit of my armata from this year's crops. Fruits are still way immature but completely formed. I dicovered that pore on the seed is very apparent and this makes me wonder, whether germination rate could be increased if seeds are gathered from slightly immature fruits, say one to two weeks prior to full maturity...

[Phoenikakias]

Farkonis, some further info to this topic. I performed experiment on Brahea moorei seeds, very difficult to find instantly the germination pore, it could be anywhere on its roundy surface (not on poles), so much of endosperm had to be exposed. Again no presoaking. One seed germinated after handling within a week in a bag with mere perlite at over 35 C for most of the day.

Another seed with exposed germination pore.

[avanza]

This Is A Secret

[sergiskan]

Farkonis, some further info to this topic. I performed experiment on Brahea moorei seeds, very difficult to find instantly the germination pore, it could be anywhere on its roundy surface (not on poles), so much of endosperm had to be exposed. Again no presoaking. One seed germinated after handling within a week in a bag with mere perlite at over 35 C for most of the day.

DSC02268.JPGDSC02271.JPG

Another seed with exposed germination pore.

DSC02281.JPG

hello Konstantinos.

i made the same operation few days ago, with a good light you can see a little blackish point, behind there is the embryo...,however not visible on all seeds...

very useful threat.

regards

Edited April 10, 2014 by sergiskan

[CYPALMS]

8. Chambeyronia macrocarpa

Another species with results already and the list keeps growing! Chambeys received on November 15, cleaned off the thick fibrous outer shell, soaked for 2 days and placed them in perlite/vermiculite. I have to say that it was already cold and i didn't use heating mats, although the bag was kept indoors at steady 22C. After almost 5 months nothing had happened so i thought to test 1 of the seeds with the process and see the result. The germination pore is easily identifiable in these species, so the test seed was "delidded", soaked in water for 48 hours without any obvious change and finally placed in perlite/vermiculite. 5 days later germination has initiated

All the seeds lined up for a family photo

Dormant seed, delidded seed (lid separates easily with the scalpel), same as previous, germinated after a week of processing

And a close up of the germination pore

The rest of the seeds in the first picture have all been processed today except for one which will serve as an indicator to check when it will finally germinate on its own.

I have to note at this point that i had ordered 10 hookeri seeds last summer (July) and all of them had germinated 1 week after being placed in a bag. Perhaps it was the high temperatures then, but still with the above process we can now germinate them in winter also and be ready to take advantage of the full growing season from March to November

[CYPALMS]

Chambeyronia macrocarpa update

12 days after processing the seeds and placing them in perlite/vermiculite here is what they look like

This one has been the easiest so far, and the only one with 100% success (no rotting or anything). The first seed of the row is the control seed which will remain unprocessed to see when it will germninate on its own. Perhaps Chambeyronia is an easy species to germinate after all, but if you are in a hurry, feel free to process the seeds and germination will speed up considerably