Speeding up Seed Germination

[Grasswing]

13 hours ago, GottmitAlex said:

Took two months and a half germination time. I was already giving up. However, today they have now germinated in the outhouse bathroom.

What species is it Alex?  

[Mostapha]

I found not to ever give up on seeds unless they are extremely moldy, or they turn to mush with a pinch test. I found as I was told some seeds take a great deal of time to germinate. 

Some seeds with remote germination seem to take longer because they are first growing the tube root before the first sprout appears at soil level.

Mark

[GottmitAlex]

27 minutes ago, Grasswing said:

What species is it Alex?  

How clumsy of me. It's P. Roebelinii.

I was given very old and dry seed still hanging from the palm. I separated the dried out flesh from the seed. It was very easy, it actually just crumbled at the touch of my fingers.

 

[Mostapha]

Hi guys, all of the seeds that I removed the lid from seem to be doing good, not as fast as I had hoped, but still going and no fungus or lost embryos. Knock on wood, hope I don't curse myself.  Will try to remember tomorrow to take photos if I can and post them.

I think that I was hoping that by getting quicker germination that they would move along a but faster, but have done the wait before.ex: Howea fosterianas, just seeing germination on them now.

Mark

[marc84]

Hello all

 

 

Very interested I will try with old seeds,l ll let you know.

Marc

[PalmTreeDude]

Hello, sorry for bumping an old (yet awesome) thread, but I just accidentally delidded a Serenoa repens seed (I thought it still had the shell on), and now I am wondering what do do with it. The embryo is still in tact. I have it soaking in a hydrogen peroxide/water mix right now (only for about five minutes at the moment) since there was some fungus in the medium that the seed was in. Can I just put this in water to get it to grow? I did that with very old Sabal minor seeds and the embryos literally just popped out. What should I do with this? 

[CYPALMS]

Hello palmtalkers,

it's been a while i was on the sidelines but now i am back to the best hobby in the world.  It seems that there will always be someone around to try and germinate palm seeds using different techniques and that's encouraging to say the least for the palm world.  

Here is the latest addition to the list of seeds which i have processed 

13. Copernicia baileyana

In the picture below you can see the same seeds at different stages. Numbers 1 & 2 are the seeds exactly as they were received. By applying some pressure with your fingers the shell of the seeds will collapse and reveal the seed inside, which is numbers 3, 4, & 5.  At seed number 3 there is a black spot visible which can easily be mistaken for the gernination pore. This is the attachment spot of the seed. The germination pore is clearly visible with the green arrow at seed number 5.  Using the scalpel the "lid" is removed easily and all you have to do is place the seed in water for couple of days.  The embryo swells and protrudes as shown with the yellow arrow in just 2 days, and when this happens you are ready to move the seed to your germination medium, be it a bag, a pot or whatever else you will be using. 

It is my understanding that when you get hold of fresh seeds of these species the germination will occur sooner or later without the need of speeding it up.  One may ask, if that is the case why should i bother to do this? Well,  first by doing this you leave nothing to luck. By exposing the embryos in these seeds you get to see immediately which ones are healthy and which are not, something that can prove good if your batch of seeds contains rotten ones.  There is a post in the forum somewhere about a fairly large amount of these seeds that were all mushy and rotten inside, but this was discovered only after they had been placed in peat moss and a period of time waiting with no result (unnecessary expenses).

The whole point here is that you have a fixed timeline. Delidding, 2 day soaking, potting up and the rest comes on its own. Check the picture below, 5 days after the seed was "delidded" being already in the pot.  The embryo has swelled even more compared to the first picture and looks very healthy.  
 

 

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

Love this thread first time reading it, put me back in school, sitting, listening to a couple professors break down sex ed haha. Cant wait to try this on some seeds I was gifted from some generous palm talkers

[Rickybobby]

I delided a coconut last night. I had tried my methods for months and no luck and when I removed the lid you could see the embryo was a no go. But I gave it a chance and coconuts are easy to do this 

[Fusca]

On 2/28/2019 at 8:11 PM, PalmTreeDude said:

Hello, sorry for bumping an old (yet awesome) thread, but I just accidentally delidded a Serenoa repens seed (I thought it still had the shell on), and now I am wondering what do do with it. The embryo is still in tact. I have it soaking in a hydrogen peroxide/water mix right now (only for about five minutes at the moment) since there was some fungus in the medium that the seed was in. Can I just put this in water to get it to grow? I did that with very old Sabal minor seeds and the embryos literally just popped out. What should I do with this? 

Did you have any luck with this one?

[CYPALMS]

Hi all,

following is a seed i tried to germinate unsuccessfully in the past using regular methods like community pots, baggie method with peat moss or coco or vermiculite. All the seeds i had tried rotted before even germinating. 

14. Howea forsteriana

Couple of years ago i was visiting a friend's house here in Cyprus and to my surprise i saw in his garden a line of Howea forsterianas flowering.  i quickly jumped on the opportunity and climbed up to see that there were receptive female flowers. Fortunately at the same time there were open male flowers, so i collected them and by squeezing and shaking them i extracted some pollen.  I then sprinkled the pollen on the female flowers and left happy i had this opportunity. You see here in Cyprus,  Kentia Palm is only sold as an indoor palm in pots and usually dies off after a few years. It is extremely rare to see a Kentia in a garden and especially a healthy one, the size of those i was looking at.  One may say that there was no need to manually pollinate the seeds, but given the fact the the guy told me that he saw them flowering before but had never set seed, as well as the long maturity time these seeds exhibit i thought to NOT let nature take its course . 2 years later the seeds i had pollinated were finally ripe and here is the first ever domestic production seed batch of Kentia in Cyprus (to my knowledge of course). 

Firstly, there is no significant flesh/fruit (exocarp) on this species. The seed is contained in a hard shell (mesocarp) the likes of which you are seeing below and it cracks easily with a hammer in half.  The second observation is that the seed seems to be feeding from the vascular system inside the shell, much like a placenta.  (see the veins carved inside the shell and the corresponding marks on the seed itself with blue colour).

I then sacrificed to science a couple of seeds to learn first hand what's the deal with the species (easy to do when you have not paid for them ). The seed will germinate from the top of the seed right beside the attachment point. The critical observation here is that the embryo is located deep inside the seed and even if you delid the seed you still cannot see it easily. It takes 3-4 days of soaking for it to swell  and reach the surface. Check the split seed and how the embryo is about to emerge after 4 days of soaking it. The initial location of the embryo was exactly where the green arrow points. 

After 8 days of soaking in 3% solution of Hydrogen Peroxide the "delidded" seeds are as shown below and are now ready to be potted and proceed to the seedling stage.  Since it took so many days to get to this point, H2O2 is a must and it has been observed that this particular seed embryo is not affected even if it stayed for so many days in the solution.  Other species tend to burn the embryo tip if they stay submerged for to long in hydrogen peroxide. 

That's the story of the Kentia Palm seed here in Cyprus.  Feel free to share any experience you had with this species. 

[PalmTreeDude]

On 6/10/2019 at 4:13 PM, Fusca said:

Did you have any luck with this one?

Unfortunately it got moldy after the root grew out a few centimeters. I took so many precautions and it still managed to get all moldy. 

[NOT A TA]

Many thanks to @CYPALMS , @Mostapha , @John in Andalucia , and others who shared their experiences going back to before I was even a member here. Reading this and other threads got me curious about the possibility of speeding up germination of fresh seed, not just a potential save on seed that didn't seem likely to ever sprout.

I enjoy experimenting so although I know I can just grow the seeds I typically have in community pots here I figured I'd play around with "delidding" to see if I can speed germination of very fresh seed. I have hundreds to thousands of each seed type so no loss if any don't work out.

First up is Caryota mitis which were picked when ripe before dropping and cleaned to the exocarp a couple days ago. A couple dissected ones showed finding the dimple was probably the thing to do and then delid. After weilding sharp instruments the test subjects were put in tap water to soak. Will post results when they occur.

In bottom pic below the upper left shows delidded seed, upper right shows pin head size dimple, and dissected seed is below.

 

[Brad Mondel]

Washingtonia filifera day three with and without filing down cap in moist paper towel:

[NOT A TA]

Update on the Caryota mitis seeds.

Picked before dropping Monday afternoon and cleaned, delidded, and put in tap water Monday evening and kept at approximately 75 F temperature. Water changed daily. Flush on Friday evening and protruding by Saturday morning. So 4 days from tree to starting germination.

[Merlyn]

I've read through this and it seems like de-lidding carries with it a risk of fungal infection.  So the solution appears to be soaking with mild hydrogen peroxide (typical store-bought 3% solution), and/or applying a fungicide.  What kind of fungicides are you using?  Captan?  Sulphur powder?

I wonder if roughening up the lid might do as good of a job at promoting germination, maybe without as much risk of fungus?  Hit it lightly with 600 grit sandpaper to promote it popping off during germination?  Maybe that wouldn't do anything useful, or just allow fungus to get in anyway...

[jimmyt]

@Merlyn2220   I get as many  fungal infestations with non-delidded seed as with delidded seed.  But I dont get a lot  of fungal growth.  I have found to clean the seed well prior,  keep your hands clean,  and use as sterile medium as possible.  For insurance I always use an antifungal  mixed  into my media before sowing.  99% of the time I use baggie/moss/heating pad method.  I am currently using liquid Daconil concentrate antifungal.  I have also used Captan and Copper sulfate with success. 

jimmyt

[Merlyn]

3 hours ago, jimmyt said:

I am currently using liquid Daconil concentrate antifungal.  I have also used Captan and Copper sulfate with success.

Are you using the "normal" dilution and application, or a lower or higher dilution rate?

[jimmyt]

More like 1/2 strength dilution

[NOT A TA]

10 hours ago, Merlyn2220 said:

I've read through this and it seems like de-lidding carries with it a risk of fungal infection. 

I wondered about that also but then started thinking that many of the delidding experiments were done using old seed which had been subjected to extended periods of more traditional methods. Methods that that involve warmth, a medium fungus could grow on, and moisture without being submerged, over extended periods of time. Perhaps the fungus had already gotten a good start before delidding even occurred? Has anyone had fungus issues using fresh seed for delidding?

5 hours ago, jimmyt said:

I get as many  fungal infestations with non-delidded seed as with delidded seed. 

Does this occur with fresh seed? Does it occur only when using baggie on heat mat technique?

10 hours ago, Merlyn2220 said:

Hit it lightly with 600 grit sandpaper to promote it popping off during germination? 

I think this ^^^ is worth a test on thin endocarp seeds, especially ones with a dimple.

I used 36 grit sandpaper (with very little finesse) on some of these freshly fallen Veitchia arecina ? seed as an experiment and three days in tap water later plumule has started moving.

[harleyb]

Bumping this topic as it seems so useful to freshies such as myself.

De-lidding bismarcks gave me much grief with fungus, but I subsequently found that removing only the exocarp over the lid was sufficient to promote germination of these in about 8 days. The lids just popped off themselves as the embryos swelled and fungus problems were much reduced.

I'm now trying my luck with licuala grandis, which have sat in the incubator for many months with only 2/100 germinating so far. The seeds still look viable so I've chipped their outer shells and returned them to a warm water soak for a few days before re-sowing. Here's hoping.

I'm also experimenting with using dilute liquid copper or 10% vinegar as anti fungal agents for seed raising, does anyone else have any recommendations around using these?

Thanks 🙂