Adonidia merrillii vs. Ptychosperma elegans; cold and cool hardiness

[Eric in Orlando]

I have always wondered why Ptychosperma elegans isn't planted more in the warmest areas of central FL. It is very common in SoFL and can tolerate brief dips into the upper 20sF and long cool spells. It is a smaller slender palm so very good for use in very protected microclimates; between tall buildings, courtyards, etc. It also grows well in shade where it would get frost protection. Instead Adonidia merrillii gets shipped up here and commonly planted. It will grow well for periods of time, maybe 10 years. But they aren't very hardy, sensitive to frost, and are very sensitive to long periods of cool and cold that is above freezing. They also don't grow as well in shade. 99% of the Adonidia planted around here perished following the 2009-10 winter. Many had been growing here 10+ years and fruited. Many even survived a brief one night dip to 27F in Jan. 2003. But they just couldn't handle the consistant cold and cool.

Here is a perfect example. This is a planting made in 2003, 2 shorter Adonidia and 1 P. elegans. This photo was taken around 2006

Here is the same planting today, the Adonidia perished in 2010, the P. elegans has thrived. It had moderate burn to the foliage after the 2009-10 winter but recovered just fine.

[Kostas]

Very nice Eric,sounds like a promising palm! Are there droopy leaflet forms of this species that keep this character in sun? This one is one of the nicer ones I have seen,most are too upright.

Which single trunk Ptychosperma would you rate as the most cold hardy droopy leaflet one?

[Trópico]

Thanks for the info Eric, I have assorted species of this nice genus ready to go in the ground any day. Do they take full sun or should I plant like you say between tall structures or trees?

[Eric in Orlando]

Very nice Eric,sounds like a promising palm! Are there droopy leaflet forms of this species that keep this character in sun? This one is one of the nicer ones I have seen,most are too upright.

Which single trunk Ptychosperma would you rate as the most cold hardy droopy leaflet one?

Ptychosperma elegans seems to be variable. Some have stiffer more upright leaflets and others, droopier.

[Eric in Orlando]

Thanks for the info Eric, I have assorted species of this nice genus ready to go in the ground any day. Do they take full sun or should I plant like you say between tall structures or trees?

They can take full sun. But I would plant them under tree canopy here and not out in the open. They are still very marginable around here except in the warmest microclimates.

[Lou-StAugFL]

I really have wanted to try a Ptychosperma elegans here in St. Augustine close to the house or under live oak canopy. I can never find them available locally though. Anyone know where I could purchase one in northeast or central Florida. We got down to 26 during the coldest night of the winter last month. On another note for cold tolerance, there is an Archontophoenix cunningama that was completly untouched by that night here in town on Saragossa Street near US 1. It is at least 15 feet tall but under live oak canopy. I have a pretty large one in a container that I am going to plant in the yard this year to see how it does. There are some exposed royals on Water Street that are quite large that had their fronds totally browned, but look alive. It was a very short time that it was that cold that night. Another surprise is I have several 4ft. tall chamaedorea elegans that continue to be untouched by cold here in St. Augustine and have been in the ground for about eight years. I didn't even realize they got that tall. They are under the canopy of a red cedar tree in a very shaded north facing garden.

[Lou-StAugFL]

There was an Adonidia merrillii in the shopping center where Hobby Lobby is here in St. Augustine for at least four years that was totally exposed but kept surviving until a cold snap last winter. I was actually suprised it survived that long this far north.

[Kostas]

Thank you very much Eric! Nice to hear that!

Now finding young ones that will make droopy adults....that is a problem!

[LilikoiLee]

I really have wanted to try a Ptychosperma elegans here in St. Augustine close to the house or under live oak canopy. I can never find them available locally though.

One of ours was seeding recently and may still doing so. Let me know if you would like some seed (via PM or email (lilikoilee@gmail.com). Lee

[PalmatierMeg]

I'm finally seeing P. elegans planted a few places around here. Adonidia became like weeds until 2010, when 75-80% of them were wiped out. And the survivors didn't flower and seed for at least 2 years. P. elegans germinates readily and grow reasonably fast. I have a double in the back yard but they haven't flowered yet.

[stevethegator]

I love Ptychosperma elegans!

When my parents built their house in South Florida the landscaper brought in several triple adonidias, and one was actually two P. elegans and an adonidia by mistake, so I got to see the two species grow up side by side. The main Ptycho has outgrown every other plant in the yard and has maybe 20' of clear wood (no trunk when planted 10 years ago).

Seeds from this palm were the first I ever tried to germinate, I had dozens and they grew FAST. I left some in 3gal pots for a couple years and forgot about them; I put one of these neglected 3 gallons in the ground a year or two ago and it's over 10' tall now. I literally had to throw the rest away bc I had no room for them all, although I think the neighbors lawn people/other neighors snatched them up before the garbage men had a chance to take them.

Ptchysperma elegans seems very well adapted to the South Florida soil/climate, so much so that theyre naturalized in many of the coastal hardwood hammocks in the area and grow alongside native cocothrinax in the preserves off Ft. Lauderdale beach.

I can't answer definitively how their hardiness compares, but my hunch is that P. elegans may be slightly hardier. Both species seemed to take minor damage at my parents house in 2010 when 4/6 of our mature coconuts were killed (not sure how cold it actually got because was away at school, 30F maybe?).

I'd recommend P. elegans for anywhere in Florida that can grow 'em! And, since they grow so fast they can easily outgrow damage or be easily grown again from seed in the event they're killed.

[stevethegator]

Here is a wild P. elegans in the forest adjacent to the Bonnet House in Ft. Lauderdale, looks right at home! Second pic is the base of what I believe to be Ficus citrifolia, to give you more of an idea of what this habitat looks like.

I'll see if I can scrounge up some pictures of the the cultivated specimens I mentioned earlier, it's been awhile since I took any pictures of them.

[Silas_Sancona]

Great info on this species Eric,

Another great palm that deserves wider use. Remember how well specimens id taken notice of in Clearwater handled the '10 freeze in comparison to Adonidias. Really want to try this one from seed.

-Nathan-

[Mike Evans]

Good topic Eric. Seems a though most people like or want the Adonidias. I try to point them to Ptychosperma elegans, but it is a tough bite for some reason. I only sell Adonidias because a lot of people only want these, or have their mind made up because their neighbor has one. All my Adonidias died in the 2010 winter and all the Ptychosperma e. did very good. I agree, Ptychosperma e. are a better choice around here, by far.

[Eric in Orlando]

I have never seen P. elegans sold up here, just Adonidia.

Now I'm not promoting this palm as a rock solid hardy palm everywhere in the Orlando area. It still is tender but should be used in the warm pockets. It has a much better chance of survival than Adonidia. There are some on the south side of a medical office in Winter Park. The building is maybe 6-7 stories tall. They were planted in the early 90s. They survived 26F in 2/1996, 27F in 1/2003 and the 2009-10 winter. I've seen a few others around, not that long term but they survied 2009-10 too.

[redant]

I really have wanted to try a Ptychosperma elegans here in St. Augustine close to the house or under live oak canopy. I can never find them available locally though. Anyone know where I could purchase one in northeast or central Florida. We got down to 26 during the coldest night of the winter last month. On another note for cold tolerance, there is an Archontophoenix cunningama that was completly untouched by that night here in town on Saragossa Street near US 1. It is at least 15 feet tall but under live oak canopy. I have a pretty large one in a container that I am going to plant in the yard this year to see how it does. There are some exposed royals on Water Street that are quite large that had their fronds totally browned, but look alive. It was a very short time that it was that cold that night. Another surprise is I have several 4ft. tall chamaedorea elegans that continue to be untouched by cold here in St. Augustine and have been in the ground for about eight years. I didn't even realize they got that tall. They are under the canopy of a red cedar tree in a very shaded north facing garden.

If your ever down in these parts I have some I'd give you for free. Mine have been seeding for years and they produce millions of seeds.

[Eric in Orlando]

Thanks ! I want to meet up and see your palms sometime. My fiancees's dad and stepmom live in Jupiter just west of A1A near the old "downtown"/ Dune Dog, off Center St.

[edric]

What a nice presentation Eric, I can't wait for the next edition, Ed

[Eric in Orlando]

Thanks !