ZONE 8 AND 9 CANOPY TREES

[stevethegator]

Edit: the Cornus I mentioned above growing near me is actually Cornus capitata I think. C. Capitata looks to be larger than C. Elliptica so it might be a better choice for canopy. Not sure if there are other meaningful differences between the two, they look extremely similar.

Edited March 27, 2014 by stevethegator

[Tropicdoc]

Do yall know if sweet bay magnolia or michelia have the same inhibitory roots as magnolia grandiflora?

[Alicehunter2000]

Looks pretty negligible to me. Sweet Bay normally has a lot of understory plants growing beneath. It is a very dappled canopy, not nearly as intense shade as provided by grandiflora.

Also, from what I've read, leaf drop is also inhibitory so It would be prudent to rake the leaves and not let them accumulate on the ground. One more thing grandiflora inhibits seed germination and probably more detrimental to small seedlings below the canopy. Larger more established transplants may have a considerably better ability to withstand the effects of any chemicals that cause the problem.

[Tropicdoc]

I'd like to do gingers bromeliads and chaemadoreas under a sweet bay I guess it would work

[Alicehunter2000]

Daphniphyllum macropodium

Acer fabri

Got 2 planted with more to come

[Alicehunter2000]

Nageia nagi (Broadleaf Podocarpus)

[Eric in Orlando]

Acer fabri is an awesome tree. When I give tours here at Leu Gardens no one guesses or even believes it is a maple !

[stevethegator]

Nice choices!

[Alicehunter2000]

Acer fabri is an awesome tree. When I give tours here at Leu Gardens no one guesses or even believes it is a maple !

That's good to know as I was a bit reluctant to purchase.

Schima argentea also possibly "superba"

Photina serratifolia ...... pardon the mess....bracing for the tall Washingtonians and also dog barrier.

[JasonD]

Second cull with additions from others:

Tabebuia umbellata

Mesquite varieties

Geoffroea decorticans

Tipuana tipu is semi-deciduous (not cold hardy but love it)

C. chekiangensis

Lithocarpus henryi

Castanopsis cuspidata

Big Citrus...not sure which is largest tree?

Castanopsis cuspidata 7a Japanese Chinkapin se-China, Jpn

C. chekiangensis 7b

Elaeocarpus decipiens 8b

E. cephalocarpa

E. cinerea

E. goniocalyx

E. neglecta 7b

E. rodwayi

E. stellulata

E. tenuiramis

L. henryi 8a China fast 3'/yr

Magnolia delavayi 8b/9a

M. grandia (Syn. Manglietia grandis) 8b

M. insignis (Syn. Manglietia insignis) 7a

M. nitida 8a

P. yunnanensis 7b/8a

Arbutus unedo 8a

Dendropanax trifidus 7b/8a

M. maudiae 8b

Neolitsea sericea 8b/9a

Osmanthus fragrans 8a

Pittosporum eugeniodes 8b/9a

Schima wallichii 8b slower?

Caesalpinia mexicana

I suggest tossing the New Zealand Pittosporum eugenioides and looking at P. brevicalyx and other Chinese pitts.

[Alicehunter2000]

Steve, found this Chinese Empress Dogwood at the box store and snapped it up.

[Alicehunter2000]

Also scored a new Weeping Podocarpus!

[Alicehunter2000]

And what was mentioned in another thread.....Albizzia "Summer Chocolate"

[WestCoastGal]

I'm not sure that weeping podacarpus will do well as far north as you are. Take a look at this US Dept Ag/Forestry info sheet, and one from UofFla:

http://hort.ifas.ufl.edu/database/documents/pdf/tree_fact_sheets/podgraa.pdf

http://hort.ifas.ufl.edu/woody/pages/podgra/podgra.shtml

There was also the issue of whether it was a male tree or not...allergy issue. Sorry haven't been on this thread for a while.

[GarrettP1]

David,

I've been growing a Dawn Redwood about 20 miles from you; just going into the ground now.

I grew several up in Nashville before moving back to Florida.

They do lose quite a bit of green during the coldest months (think January around here), but towards March they are suddenly green again.

They grow quickly, and the roots are well behaved.

My plant is to "top" the main trunk at about 12 feet, and then let it spread into a thicker, umbrella like canopy. The goal (if I live that long) is to keep it around 20-25 feet tall.

BTW, the Dawn Redwood was native to this area prior to the next to the last ice age, and the metasequoia species are part of Florida's fossil record.

I can vouch for how well they grow here, and I planted one at my father's home last season (Orlando) that has taken off like a rocket.

We should get together for a beer and palm talk.

Palm trees will not grow without alcohol. It's a fact.

Garrett

Edited May 22, 2014 by GarrettP1

[_Keith]

David,

I've been growing a Dawn Redwood about 20 miles from you; just going into the ground now.

I grew several up in Nashville before moving back to Florida.

They do lose quite a bit of green during the coldest months (think January around here), but towards March they are suddenly green again.

They grow quickly, and the roots are well behaved.

My plant is to "top" the main trunk at about 12 feet, and then let it spread into a thicker, umbrella like canopy. The goal (if I live that long) is to keep it around 20-25 feet tall.

BTW, the Dawn Redwood was native to this area prior to the next to the last ice age, and the metasequoia species are part of Florida's fossil record.

I can vouch for how well they grow here, and I planted one at my father's home last season (Orlando) that has taken off like a rocket.

We should get together for a beer and palm talk.

Palm trees will not grow without alcohol. It's a fact.

Garrett

Garrett, tell me more. I am 9a, Louisiana. I planted a Dawn Redwood years ago and it struggles. It is certainly not happy about something and I am still trying to figure out what it is. Want to know because it is a beautiful tree. I'd like to add a couple more, but not until I figure this one out.

[Alicehunter2000]

I'm not sure that weeping podacarpus will do well as far north as you are. Take a look at this US Dept Ag/Forestry info sheet, and one from UofFla:

http://hort.ifas.ufl.edu/database/documents/pdf/tree_fact_sheets/podgraa.pdf

http://hort.ifas.ufl.edu/woody/pages/podgra/podgra.shtml

There was also the issue of whether it was a male tree or not...allergy issue. Sorry haven't been on this thread for a while.

Yes Debbie, you are correct........I will return it tomorrow and get something else. No way to tell on the male/female on these small podocarps I'm getting so allergies might become a problem. I'm taking the new over the counter Nasacort and it seems to be working well.

Hey Garrett sounds like fun..wife is calling me to dinner..will post more on the Dawn Redwood later.

[Alicehunter2000]

Debbie thanks again for the heads up on the podocarp....for some reason I was thinking it was hardy here. I got a Podocarpus henkelii ordered that should be more tolerant of the weather here. Don't need more tender stuff that's for sure.

Garrett, do you know if the big Bizmarkia near Destin's Walmart on Hwy 98 survived this winter? Just curious to see how a big unprotected one did. Every one of my small ones survived both protected and unprotected and my bigger one survived with just a tarp thrown over it.

Anyway, Dawn Redwood....I got a palm buddy over in Crawfordville that is all about Dawn Redwoods. I joke with him that he should start a new website called PineTalk...lol. I always thought that they looked too Christmas tree'y and were not tropical enough looking. But I do like the trunk and it reminds me a lot of a Bald Cypress.

So you say you can shape theme into a umbrella shape? From a Google search, I see people bonsai them, so I guess they take pruning very well. If you keep cutting the main trunk it would have no choice but to grow out rather than up. Kind of like a giant bonsai in the ground. What would be the benefit to having a Dawn Redwood over a Bald Cypress? Faster growth? Anyway, now I'm intrigued. Ready for that beer.

[stevethegator]

Steve, found this Chinese Empress Dogwood at the box store and snapped it up.20140519_172653.jpg20140519_172703.jpg

Nice one!

[WestCoastGal]

I was surprised when I saw your picture of it since it hadn't been on your list that I recalled. I almost didn't say anything figuring it was too late. Happy you hadn't planted it yet and could return for something else.

[GarrettP1]

Keith,

In planting about 8 of these over the years, I've only had one struggle, and it was in a clay-like soil next to a very old (1700's era) pond in Tennessee.

I dig a hole about 3 feet deep, 2 feet wide, and fill partially with potting soil from the big box store, then the tree (so that the start of the root system is about 1/2 inch above ground level), and then more soil.

I know that that for the first 5 years of life they are very sensitive to drought, and watering the soil during a dry spell isn't enough. You have to spray/mist the foliage periodically. After that, they are like any other tree. They do appear to need some iron supplementation if your soil is defecient.

David, will look for those Bismarkia's next time I go past them. A bunch of palms near there did die with our last freeze, and my wife and I were commenting about it. I'll pay better attention.

It's funny about the trees like the Dawn Redwood and asian gardening styles.

It's very common in certain gardens (especially Japan and China) for there to be old cypress trees that are purposely kept short and spreading for shade. Think "giant" bonsai.

I rarely see that at all here in the USA or Europe. Don't know why that is.

The dawn redwood takes pruning about as well as any tree I have seen.

It's pretty well behaved. They do suffer from a lack of genetic diversity however, and that makes them vulnerable (in general terms).

[Alicehunter2000]

Post some pictures...........please

[Gtlevine]

My wife has suggested that she likes Acacia dealbata

Acacia dealbata seed.jpg

Did I mention that my wife has good tastes.

I have this tree, it is a true stunner.

[_Keith]

My wife has suggested that she likes Acacia dealbata

Acacia dealbata seed.jpg

Did I mention that my wife has good tastes.

I have this tree, it is a true stunner.

David, I just ordered 30 seeds out of Australia. Will share with you.

[Silas_Sancona]

A great tree that is incredible when in full bloom. Back in the S.F. Bay Area, and other spots around the state, this species occasionally shows up in disturbed places or near streams from time to time. Looks similar to Green Wattle, ( A decurrens) from a distance. A. decurrens is considered quite invasive back in CA. If you can find a source for them, check out the Purple leaved form of Acacia baileyana.. Color is a lot better than Summer Chocolate Mimosa, imo. Similar cold hardiness as A. dealbata as well. Looking to locate one to Bonsai. Will be interesting to see how it handles the humidity here.

-Nathan-

[Chasrobin]

I live in the central valley west of Modesto and we have seriously hot summers.

I have two tree's I wouldn't dare be without.

Neither is fruiting one is an old silver maple and the other is a fruitless mulberry.

Most people bob them back pretty hard every year.

We didn't and the thing is huge with good shade I actually use it as a story tree for my young tropicals they do great under there.

My Jack fruit which is a relative of the mulberry looks right at home just at the drip line where the mid day sun gets a little filtered and by afternoon nice cool shade.

That Mulberry must be 35ft tall and about as wide if not bigger with about 9ft clear underneath.

[_Keith]

My wife has suggested that she likes Acacia dealbata

Acacia dealbata seed.jpg

Did I mention that my wife has good tastes.

My seeds came in and were planted today. Hopefully they'll pop before we head to the Panhandle in early July and I can bring you some seedlings.

[Alicehunter2000]

Thanks Keith........you thinking about August now?

The best grower so far has been Schima argentea......loving this plant.

[Alicehunter2000]

Montezuma Cypress has arrived.

[Gtlevine]

Where did you buy the montezuma cypress?

[Alicehunter2000]

I got them from Cistus Nursery but I just looked and they don't have any more listed....must have bought there last salable batch.

I noticed that Forest Farms also carries them. Here's the link.

http://www.forestfarm.com/product.php?id=4508

[Alicehunter2000]

Bump

Enjoying the Schima argentea

[Matthew92]

Debbie thanks again for the heads up on the podocarp....for some reason I was thinking it was hardy here. I got a Podocarpus henkelii ordered that should be more tolerant of the weather here. Don't need more tender stuff that's for sure.

Garrett, do you know if the big Bizmarkia near Destin's Walmart on Hwy 98 survived this winter? Just curious to see how a big unprotected one did. Every one of my small ones survived both protected and unprotected and my bigger one survived with just a tarp thrown over it.

Anyway, Dawn Redwood....I got a palm buddy over in Crawfordville that is all about Dawn Redwoods. I joke with him that he should start a new website called PineTalk...lol. I always thought that they looked too Christmas tree'y and were not tropical enough looking. But I do like the trunk and it reminds me a lot of a Bald Cypress.

So you say you can shape theme into a umbrella shape? From a Google search, I see people bonsai them, so I guess they take pruning very well. If you keep cutting the main trunk it would have no choice but to grow out rather than up. Kind of like a giant bonsai in the ground. What would be the benefit to having a Dawn Redwood over a Bald Cypress? Faster growth? Anyway, now I'm intrigued. Ready for that beer.

You probably already know this by now, but I did notice that the Bismarkia in Destin died (along with all those queens) after the 2013-14 winter. It sure held on for awhile though! I had watched that one carefully over the years- surprisingly hardy for this far north. That palms conference center really went gonzo tropical with their landscaping. Looking at streetview which they just updated, I see they just installed a bunch more queen palms near the entrance- what are they thinking!???

[Sandy Loam]

Debbie thanks again for the heads up on the podocarp....for some reason I was thinking it was hardy here. I got a Podocarpus henkelii ordered that should be more tolerant of the weather here. Don't need more tender stuff that's for sure.

Garrett, do you know if the big Bizmarkia near Destin's Walmart on Hwy 98 survived this winter? Just curious to see how a big unprotected one did. Every one of my small ones survived both protected and unprotected and my bigger one survived with just a tarp thrown over it.

Anyway, Dawn Redwood....I got a palm buddy over in Crawfordville that is all about Dawn Redwoods. I joke with him that he should start a new website called PineTalk...lol. I always thought that they looked too Christmas tree'y and were not tropical enough looking. But I do like the trunk and it reminds me a lot of a Bald Cypress.

So you say you can shape theme into a umbrella shape? From a Google search, I see people bonsai them, so I guess they take pruning very well. If you keep cutting the main trunk it would have no choice but to grow out rather than up. Kind of like a giant bonsai in the ground. What would be the benefit to having a Dawn Redwood over a Bald Cypress? Faster growth? Anyway, now I'm intrigued. Ready for that beer.

You probably already know this by now, but I did notice that the Bismarkia in Destin died (along with all those queens) after the 2013-14 winter. It sure held on for awhile though! I had watched that one carefully over the years- surprisingly hardy for this far north. That palms conference center really went gonzo tropical with their landscaping. Looking at streetview which they just updated, I see they just installed a bunch more queen palms near the entrance- what are they thinking!???

Do you really think those queen palms will be damaged? I thought they were solid long-term in the region, barring a thirty-year freeze type of event. Bear in mind that last winter was extremely unusual from the western panhandle over to Louisiana. That type of freeze may not repeat itself for another fifteen or twenty years.

Our climate in Gainesville, FL is quite similar to yours and queen palms are everywhere here. A few of them died in the big 2009-2010 freeze events, but those were unusually harsh freezes. Many, many queen palms survived. There are literally hundreds of mature queen palms around town here. There are even more in Jacksonville, FL.

Having said this, I surprisingly have never seen a queen palm in Tallahassee, FL or Lake City, FL. I wonder why. Does it come down to just to those couple of degrees difference?

[Matthew92]

Do you really think those queen palms will be damaged? I thought they were solid long-term in the region, barring a thirty-year freeze type of event. Bear in mind that last winter was extremely unusual from the western panhandle over to Louisiana. That type of freeze may not repeat itself for another fifteen or twenty years.

Our climate in Gainesville, FL is quite similar to yours and queen palms are everywhere here. A few of them died in the big 2009-2010 freeze events, but those were unusually harsh freezes. Many, many queen palms survived. There are literally hundreds of mature queen palms around town here. There are even more in Jacksonville, FL.

Having said this, I surprisingly have never seen a queen palm in Tallahassee, FL or Lake City, FL. I wonder why. Does it come down to just to those couple of degrees difference?

The lowest temps we had that killed almost all the queens these past two winters were 17 and 18 degrees respectively- and although it seemed unusual in the sense that we had been enjoying temps only in the low 20's the other winters, temps in the high teens are not unusual at all for zone 8b which includes Gainesville. I've tried growing them and failed, and completely mature specimens around here were completely killed at these temps: queen palm will not survive long term in zone 8b (most of the Northern Gulf Coast). And about the ones you've seen surviving in Gainesville: being that much farther East and somewhat into the peninsula means a lot of the time you take cold events rather differently than in the Panhandle, and I do have to agree that you have lucked out a little bit in relation to how bad the Panhandle took it these last two winters. Still unfortunately though the bad freeze will come again: it is just disappointing trying to grow queens in 8b.

Edited July 8, 2015 by Opal92

[Matthew92]

.

Edited July 8, 2015 by Opal92

[Matthew92]

Does anyone know of Schinus molle being successfully grown in the Southeast US? I love the look of it and the fact that it's evergreen. In my online searches I have found sources that consistently list it as being hardy to the upper teens (zone 8b), but never saw one report of anyone attempting it in the SE. I know that it is a staple in the Southwest US and that it seems to be at home in a dry climate- wondering if it could handle the conditions (esp. humidity) in North or Central FL.

 

Edited November 28, 2018 by Opal92

[Alicehunter2000]

Wow looking back at this old thread I can't believe how many things I've tried that failed. The only winners have been Nagai nagi, Photina serratifolia, Jap. blueberry tree, summer chocolate mimosa, sweetbay magnolia, golden raintree, grapefruit tree, loquat trees. 

[RJ]

On 11/30/2018, 9:52:33, Alicehunter2000 said:

Wow looking back at this old thread I can't believe how many things I've tried that failed. The only winners have been Nagai nagi, Photina serratifolia, Jap. blueberry tree, summer chocolate mimosa, sweetbay magnolia, golden raintree, grapefruit tree, loquat trees. 

Your Acer fabri croaked, as well as your montezuma  cypress ? Perhaps it's your pure sand....

[Alicehunter2000]

They bother survived but we're not growing much. Gave Montezuma to my brother who has acreage north of me in the country 8b... he can plant near a pond.

The Acer fabri was traded to someone for some nice bromiliads/cactus