ZONE 8 AND 9 CANOPY TREES

[Alicehunter2000]

The Photina seratifolia is not that pretty but its growing well....debating digging it out and giving to a friend. Think I would rather put another citrus in its place

[RJ]

24 minutes ago, Alicehunter2000 said:

They bother survived but we're not growing much. Gave Montezuma to my brother who has acreage north of me in the country 8b... he can plant near a pond.

The Acer fabri was traded to someone for some nice bromiliads/cactus

Gotchya. I working on a plant list for not only some canopy options but just small evergreen trees for winter color. Does the Montezuma stay evergreen for your brother, it looks like it will loose it's needles in the cooler portions of it's range, 

[Alicehunter2000]

I think it drops them around 25 degrees. They love a lot of water but will tolerate dry....just won't grow much. 

The little Japanese Blueberry is pretty cool ....reminds me a bit of Cleyera which is even more cold hardy ... mine is nothe Christmas tree shaped....hate that anyway...except for Christmas

I really like the look of grapefruit trees ...get pretty big and have few thorns. 

[Matthew92]

On 11/30/2018, 9:52:33, Alicehunter2000 said:

Wow looking back at this old thread I can't believe how many things I've tried that failed. The only winners have been Nagai nagi, Photina serratifolia, Jap. blueberry tree, summer chocolate mimosa, sweetbay magnolia, golden raintree, grapefruit tree, loquat trees. 

Nagei nagi and the Japanese Blueberry tree are high on my list for growing up there in a tropical looking landscape. Also, do you still have your Phytolacca dioica?

[Alicehunter2000]

2 hours ago, Opal92 said:

Nagei nagi and the Japanese Blueberry tree are high on my list for growing up there in a tropical looking landscape. Also, do you still have your Phytolacca dioica?

It got about 20 ft. this year....very top heavy so cut it down to about 5ft. for the winter. 

[Matthew92]

3 minutes ago, Alicehunter2000 said:

It got about 20 ft. this year....very top heavy so cut it down to about 5ft. for the winter. 

Very cool! at what temps does it start taking cold damage?

[Alicehunter2000]

Probably around 25....I dies back to the main trunk and would probably have melted down to 5 ft. anyway. The great thing about them is that they just get more character when they resume growth....I hope it get multiple trunks this spring from the stump

 

Here is the nagi .... it is a slow grower and wants to be a bush

[necturus]

Nice ombu! Where did you get it? I have been looking for one for several years. 

[Matthew92]

9 hours ago, Alicehunter2000 said:

Probably around 25....I dies back to the main trunk and would probably have melted down to 5 ft. anyway. The great thing about them is that they just get more character when they resume growth....I hope it get multiple trunks this spring from the stump

 

Here is the nagi .... it is a slow grower and wants to be a bush

Hmm it appears to be more cold tender than I original hoped- probably not hardy enough to appreciably grow on the mainland up there. Still would maybe experiment with it though. Surprised I haven't seen any here in Central FL.

[Alicehunter2000]

The ombu gets hardier with girth. ..and looks better IMO ... when it doesn't die back it just gets taller without much increase in base diameter....it's heavy and full of spongy watery tissue so when it gets tall it wants to fall over. I like them when they take on more of a ponytail plant shape (which they remind me of trunk wise). In warm weather they grow very quickly ... similar to an angels trumpet....maybe not quite that fast.

I got mine years ago from Jerry@tree zoo .... who is a member on here...yes they are very hard to find. I have been unsuccessful in propegating from cuttings even though they say it can be done....I just suck at it

 

[Matthew92]

I think another good candidate for a zone 8/9 canopy tree is Radermachera sinica (China Doll Tree). From what I can find online it seems to have a good bit of hardiness. I saw comments on Dave's Garden of someone in Houston who's tree survived the 8b/9a temps in 2010 with just leaf drop. Also on DG there's a comment saying there's a large one successfully growing in Tallahassee. However this site says that upper teens can kill small plants to the ground. Still probably worth a try in these zones (probably more the 9a end). I'd like to experiment more with them. They have a nice exotic look (are actually in the same family as trumpet trees/handroanthus, jacaranda, and tecoma). I have seen them occasionally sold at big box stores as a house plant- however, when they are sold like this, there are many stems in one pot, so getting a leader might be difficult. Does anyone else have experience with these?

 

Edited December 6, 2018 by Opal92

[Alicehunter2000]

China doll would be cool....didn't think they were that hardy. 

I have variegated China berry ....they are nice looking cold hardy trees. A bit invasive though.

 

[Matthew92]

On 12/7/2018, 9:15:03, Alicehunter2000 said:

China doll would be cool....didn't think they were that hardy. 

I have variegated China berry ....they are nice looking cold hardy trees. A bit invasive though.

 

Yes, the Chinaberry looks similar. The main difference between that and Radermachera sinica (China Doll) is that the latter is evergreen with small, white, trumpet-like flowers. Also not invasive. I think it would do appreciably well in your location. 

Down here in Orlando, Chinaberry (Melia azedarach) is incredibly invasive turning vacant lots into thickets- very weedy and out of place looking. Although I do have to admit they can sometimes look good- more so when they are smaller or in just the right spot. Apparently there is one cultivar of Chinaberry called "Texas Umbrella Tree." It has a really neat, compact form. I sort of want one, but I'm not sure if they are as invasive as the regular.

[Alicehunter2000]

Wow...that's a pretty tree ....I'll have to look at China doll trees again.

[RJ]

According to this site The China Doll tree is hardy to USDA 10-11

https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/houseplants/china-doll/china-doll-plants-outside.htm

 

I continue to keep tabs on this thread as I to am looking for canopy trees. I have some  Eucalyptus dalrympleana (Mountain Gum) that I have germinated from seed. Man are they small! Obviously live oak is on the list as well. But I'm always looking for others. 

 

 

[Alicehunter2000]

Love this Golden Raintree....they are common but a nice one to have....not evergreen....I grew the one from seed. Looking up through causiarum fronds.

[Alicehunter2000]

A different view.

[Swolte]

On 11/27/2018 at 5:59 PM, Matthew92 said:

Does anyone know of Schinus molle being successfully grown in the Southeast US? I love the look of it and the fact that it's evergreen. In my online searches I have found sources that consistently list it as being hardy to the upper teens (zone 8b), but never saw one report of anyone attempting it in the SE. I know that it is a staple in the Southwest US and that it seems to be at home in a dry climate- wondering if it could handle the conditions (esp. humidity) in North or Central FL.

 

I have had no luck with this one here in Central Texas (and I know of others who had the same experience). Never seen one growing around here. I guess it can get too humid/wet in summers. 

Great thread, btw... should be required reading for any palm zone pushing enthusiast!

[Silas_Sancona]

14 minutes ago, Swolte said:

I have had no luck with this one here in Central Texas (and I know of others who had the same experience). Never seen one growing around here. I guess it can get too humid/wet in summers. 

 

Interesting that they're challenging there, While being a potential challenge in the more humid parts of Texas would make sense,  would figure they'd grow in places like Austin or San Antonio, if not further west/ southwest though i never saw any the few times i have passed thru El Paso or nearby parts of New. Mexico. Can't recall seeing any anywhere in Phoenix or Tucson either. In CA, these things turn up growing "wild" near creeks, even in areas which tend to be cooler than 9A.

Back in my old neighborhood in Almaden ( Somewhat cooler part of the Santa Clara Valley, just south of San Jose proper ) i had a huge specimen that sat next to the creek across the street from where i lived at the time. Used to be two giant specimens in the parking lot of the nursery i worked for in a different part of Almaden also. Were cut down when the property was sold/ nursery forced to close.  Very common "Hacienda" -type tree around the Santa Clara Valley / overall region of California.  Much nicer ( and tamer ) than it's evil twin, Brazilian Pepper Tree.

[Swolte]

On 12/16/2018 at 10:28 AM, Alicehunter2000 said:

Love this Golden Raintree....they are common but a nice one to have....not evergreen....I grew the one from seed. Looking up through causiarum fronds.

I am becoming a big fan of the Golden Rain trees. I have the Summerburst variety which supposedly has more heat tolerance. First year in the ground and I am having over 3 feet of growth already. Too bad it is not evergreen. I can't wait until they start to flower!

Silas, as for the Pepper tree, I am an hour or so closer to Houston than I am to Austin. It does get quite humid here for long periods in the summer (though not as bad as Houston) and the winters can bring a tough wet cold. Please do let me know if anyone has had success with this tree!

[necturus]

Rain trees are crazy invasive here. I am constantly pulling them up. They are worse than Chinese tallow trees. With that said, the blooms are nice in the fall. The main one here is Koelreuteria elegans.

[Fusca]

15 hours ago, necturus said:

Rain trees are crazy invasive here. I am constantly pulling them up.

That's what I understood to be the case.  I remember seeing seedling giveaways (or for sale) in Craigslist every so often when I lived over there.

[RedRabbit]

Rain trees are pretty, but they’re very messy too. Those seed pods get all over the place. When I was looking for a canopy tree recently I didn’t give it consideration for that reason.

[Than]

I thought of starting a new thread but why do that when I'm going to discuss the same issues discussed here?

After considering many exotic tropical possibilities but ending up rejecting them for one reason or another, I am now between a Radermachera sinica and a Carob tree to provide frost cover for understory plants.

I just wonder how competititive carob roots are. I haven't managed to find an answer online. Does anyone know if shade loving plants can grow under carob trees? Also, would the shade be too dense for plants below?

How about Radermachera sinica? I have been told its roots are competitive but I am wondering if others have had luck with incorporating them into a densely planted garden.