Boundaries of the "palm belt" in the United States?

[jfrye01@live.com]

Anyone know what states/regions are called the "palm belt", or areas where it is very common to see palms? I drew a rough line denoting the boundary of the palm belt on Google Earth based on my travels, and I was just curious...what is the official definition of this "palm belt"?

Here's my guess...any others?

[Ben in Norcal]

West coast is definitely off, depending on what you are including. Tons of Trachys in the Seattle area...I go up there weekly and they are all over the place.

[_Keith]

West coast is definitely off, depending on what you are including. Tons of Trachys in the Seattle area...I go up there weekly and they are all over the place.

West Coast would go up to Vancouver.

[Xerarch]

All things considered, the map isn't bad, yes the west coast could use some adjustment, even in California the line should move inland to cover all of the central valley. But nitpicking aside it's a decent guesstimate. If I were to draw a palm belt map, I would consult the 2012 USDA zone map and draw a line through everything USDA zone 8a and warmer, that seems to be where palms start to reliably show up.

[jfrye01@live.com]

Dang...I forgot Seattle and Vancouver, which is ironic, as last time I was in either of those cities (9-10 years ago), I was blown away by the amount of Trachys and even a few Washys sprinkled around!

[JEFF IN MODESTO]

Yup, palms are everywhere in Cali ...except above about 2000 ft elevation in the sierras.

North and south they are common, you see them everywhere even as far north as redding and crescent city.

Never saw any on recent trips to Portland or Seattle .

There may be a few in protected areas, but for sure not common.

So I wouldn't really call them palm areas.

IMO

Jeff

[Ben in Norcal]

Trachys are very common on the Eastside in Seattle. Drive through Kirkland and every 2nd house has a decent size Windmill. They are even in pots outdoors all over Bellevue (e.g. NE 8th St. and Bellevue Way.) I see way more palms in Seattle than far northern California.

[_Keith]

Look up Banana Joe on Salt Spring Island off of Vancouver. He's got some youtubes out, on FB, etc. Amazing little climate on that island.

[jfrye01@live.com]

Yep, I follow Banana Joe on Facebook...I'm completely blown away by the amount of tropicals on that little island there!! So cool!!

[Hammer]

Fwiw, my brother used to live in Oklahoma City. He said there were palms growing in the ground at the OKC zoo.

[palmsOrl]

Jeffrey,

Your map, in my opinion is excellent, at least as far west as Texas. West of there, I have no idea. North of your boundary is very roughly where palms in landscaping become extremely scarce. Granted, there are some long term Sabals, Trachys and Rhapidophyllum north of here in areas like Atlanta, Raleigh, Charlotte, DC, etc. Nonetheless, I could not consider DC and Atlanta to be in the palm belt. Maybe the subtropical zone pusher belt.

[jfrye01@live.com]

Yes, there are tons of Sabal minor and a few T. fortunei at OKC zoo...Tulsa zoo also has quite a few T. fortunei, last time I was there, I was quite surprised...

[jfrye01@live.com]

PalmsOrl, thanks for your feedback!! I wasn't too sure about west Texas or New Mexico, as I've never been out that way, hope I got it pretty close;)

Edited February 16, 2014 by jfrye01@live.com

[JEFF IN MODESTO]

Trachys are very common on the Eastside in Seattle. Drive through Kirkland and every 2nd house has a decent size Windmill. They are even in pots outdoors all over Bellevue (e.g. NE 8th St. and Bellevue Way.) I see way more palms in Seattle than far northern California.

Hmmmm ? I figuired that there might be a few here and there.... But here they are a major part of the landscape!

Especially Queens, Washies, Phoenix, etc... often there are as many as 6 mature fruiting queens in a single yard.

Palms line the streets and mall parking lots..California zone 9a/b and 10a/b, 11a are palm areas and this covers about 90 percent of the populated part of the state north and south..

We see ancient palms on tall trunks at least 100 years old on the ranches that line the freeways.

And ours I would consider the edge of the palm zone, because just to the west of us, in the sierra mtns at about 2000ft in elev, you see palms no more. This is usda z 8a/8b and they get temps in the low teens and snow every year. There was snow down to 1000ft this year and the palms look dead or dying .

Jeff

[Xerarch]

PalmsOrl, thanks for your feedback!! I wasn't too sure about west Texas or New Mexico, as I've never been out that way, hope I got it pretty close;)

Yes you did, there are palms in El Paso Texas and Las Cruces New Mexico, so it is good that you included those areas.

[Ben in Norcal]

Jeff, I wouldn't say Modesto is far northern California. I'm talking about up near the border.

Anyway, point is palms are very common in Seattle, and Portland for that matter. And, with no protection whatsoever. To my mind, that puts them in the "palm belt" - anywhere good-sized palms are commonly used landscaping features requiring no protection would fit the bill IMO.

[Sutter Bob]

I would add a requirement that the palm survives long enough to flower and produce seed outdoors (even in a protected site).

Have any made it that far it in southern Alaska?

That might be the real boundary.

If none make it to seed there I would suspect the Canadian border of coastal Washington.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Jeff, I wouldn't say Modesto is far northern California. I'm talking about up near the border.

Anyway, point is palms are very common in Seattle, and Portland for that matter. And, with no protection whatsoever. To my mind, that puts them in the "palm belt" - anywhere good-sized palms are commonly used landscaping features requiring no protection would fit the bill IMO.

You know that's not quite true. Even though Trachy is rated hardy throughout sunset zones 4, 5 and 6 (coastal PNW, Seattle, williamette Valley) trachy are still relatively uncommon and you can drive for quite a while without ever seeing a single palm. The folks who choose to grow palms and subtropicals in the PNW are about as common as folks who grow king palms in the Bay area. You see pockets of trachy but they're hardy common in the PNW and most gardeners up there are completely unaware they can be grown there.

[Ben in Norcal]

Then I guess I am pre-disposed to notice them, because I know where there's dozens in Kirkland and Bellevue.

[JEFF IN MODESTO]

Jeff, I wouldn't say Modesto is far northern California. I'm talking about up near the border.

Anyway, point is palms are very common in Seattle, and Portland for that matter. And, with no protection whatsoever. To my mind, that puts them in the "palm belt" - anywhere good-sized palms are commonly used landscaping features requiring no protection would fit the bill IMO.

Ben, I dont even consider Modesto in the northern part of the state. I'd say Modesto is in Central CA.

They are common in portland and Seattle?... Im kinda freak about looking for the unusual... I think I saw one or two in a Trachys in a sheltered location in a park under some evergreens.

But IMO , it seemed more like an exception rather than a rule.

Jeff

[Ben in Norcal]

I may well be pre-dispositioned as I said...after all I am a palm freak myself obviously! But I go up to Seattle most weeks (vendor for Microsoft) and my haunts are around Kirkland and Bellevue. I could take you on a palm tour there. It's quite a Trachy wonderland parts of the Eastside...and IMO they look WAY better there than they do in our part of California by and large (I am East Bay and they can look quite ragged here.) They seem to love the climate up there.

[JEFF IN MODESTO]

Hmmm, Thanks but not necessary. I believe you. I just didn't see many.

We have plenty of trachys here in modesto...

What we are short of is exotic palms.

[jfrye01@live.com]

I've enjoyed reading all the posts here! Learn something new everyday! Here in Kansas, temperatures for the time being are more "palm belt"-esque:) Not supposed to drop below 35F all week, so my potted Trachy and Butia are spending the week outside!!

[stevethegator]

Here in Atlanta there are a lot of palms which can be grown, but I would definitely not consider us in the palm belt. Trachys and needle palms are relatively common, but Atlanta is heavily forested for a large city so they don't really stand out planted under 50-100 foot tall pines and hardwoods. They're all around but you really have to look for them, most people don't even know they're here.

Sabal palmettos are becoming more popular (cheaply shipped up as hurricane cut trunks from South Georgia/Florida) but they don't look as good as they do further south and can burn some when it gets really cold.

Butia is also becoming more popular but there aren't many large ones, and I imagine this winter will keep it that way. There are even some large Washingtonia filibusta at the botanical gardens, but they are in a favorable microclimate. The midtown area in general is a very favorable microclimate, probably zone 8 even in the worst winters. I'd imagine you could maybe grow dates in the city itself, the tall buildings really add a lot of warmth and shelter.

It doesn't really get "palmy" in central Georgia until you get to the Tifton area; there Spanish moss starts showing up and sabals and washies are planted at gas stations, hotels, etc. They are still not super common though, mostly because all available land there is used for commercial crops (cotton, tobacco, peaches, pecans, etc.) and there is no "need" for palms. You really don't start seeing palms as a landscape staple until you get near Valdosta on the Florida line, at least along the I-75 corridor.

Coastal Georgia is very palmy and is typical "low-country" southern: live oaks, Spanish moss, sabal palmettos, and sagos are staples, washies, dates, and Butia are common. The sea island are very mild and are even warmer than many areas in North Florida and can reliably grow queens, bird of paradise, etc.

Edited February 17, 2014 by stevethegator

[DreaminAboutPalms]

Calhoun, GA north of Atlanta. These surprised me they look incredible 

 

I didn’t think people even tried to plant palms up here really 

 

[DreaminAboutPalms]

This would be my map of the palm belt, roughly, it was hard to draw the line. In my mind anywhere south of this line you shouldn't be surprised to see a mature palm of some species 

Palms along coast in Vancouver and Seattle and in Portland as well, in CA palms in Central Valley all the way up to Redding, moving southeast George Utah is northernmost in sw region, in New Mexico tons of palms in truth or consequences and alamogordo, less so in Roswell but people still try, ABQ has a few but not enough to qualify in my opinion. Southeast corner of Oklahoma is the famous McCurtain County Sabal minor, Arkansas you will see Trachycarpus, and in the southeast, trachycarpus and Sabal minor and needle palm push that line farther north. Palms are widely planted everywhere in SC and below fall line in NC up to Virginia Beach. Even cities like Atlanta have a good number of windmill palms, despite them being hidden beneath the pines.

Edited April 27, 2022 by DreaminAboutPalms

[Mr.SamuraiSword]

Edit

Edited April 28, 2022 by Mr.SamuraiSword

[Mr.SamuraiSword]

 

I'll try taking a crack at it, not familiar with the west coast, so Ill stick with the southeast.  The purple line is where palms are "somewhat common" but perhaps overlooked by the majority of travelers, the red is where palms are common enough to be easily noticed by anyone (the real palm belt), and just for fun, the yellow is where crownshafted palms are reasonably prevelant (Hudson on the Gulf, New Smyrna Beach on the East) Areas around Nashville are a questionmark hence the purple.

Edited April 28, 2022 by Mr.SamuraiSword

[DreaminAboutPalms]

8 hours ago, Mr.SamuraiSword said:

 

I'll try taking a crack at it, not familiar with the west coast, so Ill stick with the southeast.  The purple line is where palms are "somewhat common" but perhaps overlooked by the majority of travelers, the red is where palms are common enough to be easily noticed by anyone (the real palm belt), and just for fun, the yellow is where crownshafted palms are reasonably prevelant (Hudson on the Gulf, New Smyrna Beach on the East) Areas around Nashville are a questionmark hence the purple.

That is perfect 

[DreaminAboutPalms]

This is a simple map of Texas. 

 

Red Line: Northern limit roughly for long term trunking palms 

Purple Line: northern limit for long term filiferas. Yes I know there are some in DFW but they are incredibly rare these days 

Green Line: skyduster robustas and semi long term queens

Yellow: crownshafted palms 

[Dartolution]

On 2/15/2014 at 7:33 PM, jfrye01@live.com said:

Anyone know what states/regions are called the "palm belt", or areas where it is very common to see palms? I drew a rough line denoting the boundary of the palm belt on Google Earth based on my travels, and I was just curious...what is the official definition of this "palm belt"?

 

Here's my guess...any others?

I don't know what I would draw the line as far north as Huntsville for Alabama as stated above, - Palms are north of the authors line definitely - Weiss lake native minors (NE AL), dotted needle populations, and palmettos are present from Birmingham south especially on the HWY 280 corridor, and once you get into Prattville/Montgomery for sure! There are a few mature palms in Anniston, as well as some gas station palmettos off of the Oxford Alabama Exit. 

Things really don't get "palmy" IMO until you get around Birmingham/280 and south.

Just my 2-cents.  

[ShadyDan]

Pretty small part of the range, but here's the Canadian edition. Trachys are very common on SE Vancouver Island (and adjacent Gulf Islands) from Victoria all the way up to Comox. When you get North of Comox they seem to peter out with only a few specimens I know in Campbell River and nothing really beyond that. On the West Coast, they are fairly common in Tofino and Ucluelet (along with massive Cordylines) but I do not know of any others beyond that.

On the Mainland, they are common in Powell River, down through Sechelt and into Vancouver its left. As you go East through the Fraser Valley toward Chilliwack they become less common (colder the further East you go) until they disappear.

In my neck of the woods, there are probably 20-30 mature Trachys within a 500m radius of my house. The seed ripens fully here and they well self seed readily. If you know where to look, you can also find large, seed producing Chamaerops and the odd Butia as well in regular gardens. Of course, there are also a few hobbyists like myself that have many more species going!

 

[NBTX11]

On 4/28/2022 at 8:45 PM, DreaminAboutPalms said:

This is a simple map of Texas. 

 

Red Line: Northern limit roughly for long term trunking palms 

Purple Line: northern limit for long term filiferas. Yes I know there are some in DFW but they are incredibly rare these days 

Green Line: skyduster robustas and semi long term queens

Yellow: crownshafted palms 

Bend your Green line slightly farther north on the western end to include Del Rio, TX.  Del Rio is about the equivalent of the immediate downtown area of San Antonio 

[KDubU]

On 4/29/2022 at 3:20 PM, ShadyDan said:

Pretty small part of the range, but here's the Canadian edition. Trachys are very common on SE Vancouver Island (and adjacent Gulf Islands) from Victoria all the way up to Comox. When you get North of Comox they seem to peter out with only a few specimens I know in Campbell River and nothing really beyond that. On the West Coast, they are fairly common in Tofino and Ucluelet (along with massive Cordylines) but I do not know of any others beyond that.

On the Mainland, they are common in Powell River, down through Sechelt and into Vancouver its left. As you go East through the Fraser Valley toward Chilliwack they become less common (colder the further East you go) until they disappear.

In my neck of the woods, there are probably 20-30 mature Trachys within a 500m radius of my house. The seed ripens fully here and they well self seed readily. If you know where to look, you can also find large, seed producing Chamaerops and the odd Butia as well in regular gardens. Of course, there are also a few hobbyists like myself that have many more species going!

 

For some reason palms and Vancouver Island just seem odd but hey if you got ‘em, plant ‘em.

[Little Tex]

On 4/28/2022 at 8:45 PM, DreaminAboutPalms said:

This is a simple map of Texas. 

 

Red Line: Northern limit roughly for long term trunking palms 

Purple Line: northern limit for long term filiferas. Yes I know there are some in DFW but they are incredibly rare these days 

Green Line: skyduster robustas and semi long term queens

Yellow: crownshafted palms 

there are crown shafted(mostly foxtails) palms further north into Houston, there was even royals in cypress for a little while, there is at least five crown shafted palms in my neighbor hood.