WHAT does it take for BS Man to weed his yard? (Palm trauma)

[BS Man about Palms]

I'M BLUE WITH PAIN FROM EATEN PALMS!!

[BS Man about Palms]

No really, this is a painful subject and sucks a lot, but the best way I can deal with it is to make jokes about it and keep going on.

The short version is I started seeing of my heeled Dypsis planted in boxes dead from being eaten. I thought some had finally rotted enough that the gophers got in. But SOME looked very different to what I was used to seeing from gopher damage. A few almost looked like someone had walked up with a big ice cream scoop and eaten the entire base of the palm AND the soil. it was like a soil "bowl" where the palm had been.....

[BS Man about Palms]

Here is the palm that first caught my attention... in its glory days back last June.. It is a Dypsis hovomantsina that was putting out maybe 30" spears.. it was 5-6" across at the base and a picture of its latest leaf was in the latest PSSC magazine on Dypsis....

and HERE it is about a month after I saw it had been killed.... or whats left of it.

[BS Man about Palms]

Not sure whether to post carnage pictures or not... But what I KNOW did not help was my WEEDS... mainly because they were/are large enough to make housing for various animals.. From what I have read Voles can be a main culprit... BUT I have seen Skunks, Raccoons, Possums, Rats, mice, gophers, rabbits, cats, Coyotes, owls, bats, hawks, crows, hummingbirds all on my property in the past few years or so..

The one that told me something else was when I came out to my yard in front and saw a Ravenea laying on its side... .a 6 foot tall one... IN A 15 GAL POT NOT PLANTED! the roots had been chewed off and I didn't know wth would do that! ?? at the same time I saw a Dypsis ampansandavae that was putting out 5' spears laying on its side.. Pulled it up to find all the roots eaten off save one pencil sized one...

Uhh enjoy...

The Ravenea I threw on the mulch pile for a couple weeks and it still looked green... I have since thrown it in a 5 gal pot with soil... doubt it will live, but I saw some at Gary Levines that did some amazing recovery...

Thats enough for now, gonna go film some before as I am getting all the weeds removed this coming week.

[WestCoastGal]

How heart breaking to see. Shield the young kids' eyes! The carnage photos will stick in the minds of growers out there and hopefully will get them to check their own gardens. So BS Man, you may be saving the life of a fellow palm grower's palm by posting them.

Imagine how we felt when we discovered that our 12-ft or so CT mule was dessert for one of these vole critters. Never expected to have a mature palm hit. Seen lots of photos of younger plants like yours getting take out and we were more concerned about protecting plants that we were going to be adding to the yard. The voles in our area got taken care of before they totally made a meal of our mule but if you could have seen the damage done to inside the trunk, amazing the mule is still here. Looks healthy and otherwise appears unaffected putting out new fronds and inflourescence but we still have concerns and keep a close eye on it and our other palms.

BTW my next door neighbor was the one with the knee high grass and weeds in his back yard that hid the evidence of the voracious little vermin. Hard to believe something so small can be so destructive. Cleaning up tall weeds and grasses will cut down on allergies as well. Good luck BS Man on saving all that you can.

[bgl]

Bill,

I know this must be really painful, but try to see it as a good thing - in the long run. Losing some of these palms will motivate you to do something about your weeds, and that's a good thing in more ways than one. It's actually very satisfying to get rid of outrageous weeds in a particular area, and see that area go from near disaster to something that can be very attractive. And I'm guessing it won't even take you that long to get your front yard cleaned up and looking pretty good. And once you get to that point you know exactly what palms you have that are either survivors or can be expected to make a recovery. And not being critical at all - I am pretty much in an identical situation with quite a few palms (hundreds probably) that came out of our liquidated nursery a few years ago. Most of these palms in pots are covered in weeds so I need to tackle mine as well.... The one good thing here - not so many animals that can cause problems. But I still need to clean out and see what's alive at this point.

Bo-Göran

[_Keith]

I have to deal with the mass destruction of winter, but it is hard to hate something specific there. I can only imagine your frustration.

[Kostas]

That sucks big time! Hope at least some recover and no more victims. That's tough and heartbreaking Bill,I feel for you...

[Jeff Searle]

Bill and I talked on the phone a few days ago for 1 1/2 hours. This big problem of loosing palms and the severe problem of not controlling the weeds was talked about in quite length.

Bill.....on a serious note, start thinking about getting your yard into shape. You need to get aggressive with spraying a herbicide and kill the weeds. I'm very disappointed.....

[Cindy Adair]

I'm so sorry Bill. You know we all truly sympathize.

I can add to my own dead palms list this week, a lovely little Socratea exorrhiza grown from seed from Tim (Realarch) after our 2013 PT fundraiser. It was the first one up and certainly the fastest grower with 2 fully open little leaves. It seemed healthy one day and completely dead by the next.

Four actually trunking, fruiting, big palms all have died mysteriously in Puerto Rico since we bought our farm: a Veitchia arecina, huge Roystonea borinquena, Archontophoenix alexandrae and Saribus rotundifolia. They were perfect one visit and long dead by the next. Never more than one per year and spread out over the farm, but still quite disconcerting since I have no idea what killed them. I know there are no gophers and I've never heard of voles there or wild pigs at least in my area. The leaves were too tall to blame the neighbor's cows.

We look forward to seeing your new palm growing area. I'd loan you the guy in Puerto Rico who's a whiz with a machete if I could. He expects only $6 an hour and a sandwich for lunch and trims weeds extremely quickly to the bare dirt if you like. Even the few days a year he helps us out when we are there are wonderful to clean up the paths. And yes, we always add a tip that he's embarrassed about and tries to refuse. He even finds plants we'd forgotten about in weeds higher than our PVC pipe markers.

After your weeds are minimized, plan some retail therapy (in lieu of flowers or a donation in honor of your dead palms) and support your local palm nurseries with new trees!

[BS Man about Palms]

Heres an unnamed Dypsis that was in a 7 gal pot. Several i had seen were "excavated" from above like clawed down halfway and then eaten. This Dypsis had one frond eaten off many months back which left a spear that eventually opened so it could be eaten off AGAIN!

Currently its hopefully recovering at Lens place.. (Thanks Len) with its remaining 8" spear..

And thanks for the condolences... and all the chastising. If someone told me THIS would have been the result of rampant weeds, I would have done something earlier.. but as I have said in the past, people can learn from my mistakes... I'll allow it

[Alicehunter2000]

Sorry about the palms man....this is a little late, but if you want to see the culprit doing the damage, I would suggest buying a game camera. The type deer hunters use to see deer and wild game on their food plots. You can set the sensitivity for smaller critters and they are IR so you can view things at night. They also have settings that allow for short video as well as pictures. They use camera cards that can hold hundreds of pictures so you won't miss anything.

Once you have ID'd the culprit, it will be easier to eliminate. Good luck...look forward to seeing a nice manicured palmy yard.

$50 for a game camera and you could have pictures.

[DALION]

Now I need to make sure to get traps to kill the voles. I don't have weeds in my garden nor is my soil high in organics so why I have any is a mystery.

[MattyB]

That sucks. Sorry dude.

[tjwalters]

Sorry, man. How well I know your pain.

[tjwalters]

Now I need to make sure to get traps to kill the voles. I don't have weeds in my garden nor is my soil high in organics so why I have any is a mystery.

You may not have weeds, but you have something tastier. No weeds here, either, but I can still get plenty of voles. Seems to go in cycles - maybe a predator/prey thing. I hear they are a favorite of owls.

[BS Man about Palms]

Here... I'll up the somber mood a bit with some healthy survivors.......

The infamous Dypsis prestoniana/big curley

Dypsis leptochelios x decaryii

Acanthophoenix crinita

Clinostigma savoryanum

Chambeyronia lepidota high elevation?

Clinosperma bracteale

[DALION]

Now I need to make sure to get traps to kill the voles. I don't have weeds in my garden nor is my soil high in organics so why I have any is a mystery.

You may not have weeds, but you have something tastier. No weeds here, either, but I can still get plenty of voles. Seems to go in cycles - maybe a predator/prey thing. I hear they are a favorite of owls.

I have an owl living in the area but since I also have coyotes I can't get a cat.

This is just proof that we need to be vigilant in protecting our gardens. If B.S. Man and MattyB can have palms eating, then any of us here can. Sorry for the lost palms.

[Darold Petty]

Sincere condolences, Bill.

[BS Man about Palms]

I made a little 5 min movie of the before.. Maybe I'll post it just before the "finished" pics (or movie)

But heres a taste of what I'm up against.......

[MattyB]

I wouldn't "weed". Prune up your low fronds, and/tie them up. Go around and lay the grass down around the palms so you can see them. Start spraying roundup. Wait a few weeks and go back and get the spots you missed. Once the weeds are dead, after a few weeks, then go in and bury them all in mulch.

[DALION]

I didn't realize how bad the weed situation is in your yard. You need to get a handle on that.

[Bill Austin]

Sorry to hear what happened to your palms Bill , Matty has a good approach for getting your weeds under control good luck .

[Mr Rare]

Bill

Sorry to hear of your loss.

Matt has the right idea to rid yourself of the weeds .

Look at this as an opportunity to redo your yard and make a tragedy into something of beauty.

I am always available should you find yourself unable to accommodate all those special palms you have collected.

[WestCoastGal]

Looks like a lot of work ahead but the house and yard should look great when you are done. Some nice palms peaking thru those weeds.

Regarding the round up, are you guys concerned about using it and affecting bees?

[MattyB]

I wouldn't spray it on flowering weeds but Bill just has grass. I don't like the idea of using lots of chemicals, on a regular basis, but a one time carpet bombing is in order to get this thing under control. If it was just weeds I'd just choke them out with a thick layer of mulch but the grass will just grow up through the mulch so it needs to be killed first.

[WestCoastGal]

The reason I asked is because we had some nasty weeds in our yard before we landscaped and hubby used some round up on them. Took a few applications but did the job after a few weeks. Some point after that on a few ocassions we have both seen bees in our yard that seemed stunned. Kind of couldn't fly and landed on the pavement or once on a table near me. They subsequently died there.

I tend to avoid bees having been stung a few times as a kid but these guys could barely move. one tried to fly a way and did this wavy path and then landed on the pavers. subsequently died there. If I hadn't seen it happen a few times I might not give it a second thought; but never recalled having seen this behavior before, it struck us both as unusual. We both wondered if there was a connection and have hesitated using the spray since then. I use to see a lot of bees around our salvia to the point I was afraid to almost walk past them at certains times of day when they were frequented by the bees. but they diminished as well. Not many bees any longer around our flowering mules. Curious what others have noticed.

[BS Man about Palms]

There used to be some hive boxes behind me, but the owners moved them away.

As far as the weeds... for a while I was naive to think the seeds from the grass, dandelions, sticker plants.., etc would be eaten by the cute little fieldmice.. Had no idea I would breed some sort of prehistoric Palmivores!

Anywho, I want the weeds out and a good look at the topography.. I did mulch the yard once or twice way back.. but never sprayed the weeds first... that was the mistake.

My goal is to remove all weeds and any pots (mostly) from the front yard... do the roundup treatment for a while AND see/trap/catch any gopher action that I know is in play.. THEN get some mulch down again.

[DoomsDave]

Bill, ouch that hurts!

Hmm. I wouldn't go jumping to conclusions.

You rather sagely pointed out when you visited that weeds can sometimes prevent an "excessive" environment (my term) that some of these grand Dypsis don't like. That sounds sound. Even the evil Asparagus of Doom can serve a good purpose.

And, I can tell you, I lost about 6 wonder D. robusta (and others, including C. nana) in pots last summer (along with seeds up the wazoo) to some kind of vile loathsome rodent scum. Weeding had nothing to do with it.

Madagascar has no rodents . . . .

Trunking seems to help, too.

Some of my prior experience suggests that some Dypsis don't take Roundup well (death from overspray, or so it appeared).

Keep us well apprized!

[Sutter Bob]

The good news is you've got some great stuff left.

[Jeff Searle]

Pay my way out there for the weekend, and I'll whip the yard in shape! Guarantee it! And a couple of day laborers for a day.

[Alicehunter2000]

You can also lay plastic down in the yard and let the sun cook the weeds. Effective, cheap and no herbicide. you can put it around the base of the palms so that any herbicides don't get near your palm roots. According to how hot the sun is it can take as little as 3 days to a week to kill the weeds. Somebody correct me if this is not a good idea. Saw it in a gardening book a long time ago....supposed to only heat up the first 1/4 inch or so of soil to killing temps.

[Mandrew968]

Not sure whether to post carnage pictures or not... But what I KNOW did not help was my WEEDS... mainly because they were/are large enough to make housing for various animals.. From what I have read Voles can be a main culprit... BUT I have seen Skunks, Raccoons, Possums, Rats, mice, gophers, rabbits, cats, Coyotes, owls, bats, hawks, crows, hummingbirds all on my property in the past few years or so..

Hate to hear those nice palms died on you, but you have had this thing happen with regular occurrence, it seems--time to weigh your priorities. I would be too embarrassed to post photos of weeds that bad--I guess you have begun with the first step: admitting there is a problem(big step).

Also, I don't think the animals in bold are the culprits, unless California has attack-hummingbirds...

[WestCoastGal]

I think I would take advantage of some of our California rain and maybe use a hoe? to pull up some of the softened weedy soil as a start. I'd experiment with strips of black tarps but they'd need to be anchored down though and you'd have to work your way around plants and pots. Getting started will be the hardest. I'm a procrastinator about some things I really don't want to tackle and pushing the start button is the hardest. I'd also suggest working on an area at a time. Nothing like seeing some success to motivate.

I'd probably enlist some day laborers and while they might pull up some of the seedling plants I'd like to keep, getting the ground cleared of weeds would ultimately be such a relief to get done, I'd view it as the cost of getting the yard in shape. You could always try to go thru the plants and tag some of it with colorful marking tape or flags to indicate what you want to keep.

The "attack hummingbirds" will thank you for giving them a clear path to the nectar. That image was really funny Mandrew. Thanks for the unexpected laugh. Good to laugh when surrounded by plant deaths at the hands of the silent but deadly ground dwellers.

[Justin]

When I got rid of my lawn in the front yard, I put several layers of newspaper down, then covered that with mulch. The newspaper acted like a big tarp, and choked out the grass, but disintegrated over the course of a month or two, so I never had to do any additional work. Cardboard might work as well, but obviously it would take a bit longer to break down.

[MattyB]

Oh yeah! Justin's got a great idea. Steve Toad layed cardboard down all over and then we put mulch on top. His yard has never looked better. He did have to spot treat with roundup after the fact because the bermuda grass can work it's way up through the cardboard, but from what I remember it wasn't a mass application, just a little here and there. Much more earth friendly.

[Gonzer]

and a couple of day laborers for a day

In this extreme case I'd throw in a handful of night laborers too.

[Darold Petty]

Bill. this technique is called sheet mulching. (Plenty of links through google search).

It is very effective. The Oakland Parks department prohibits herbicide use at our Lakeside Palmetum. so we use this approach to weeds. It is not necessary to remove all weedy vegetation, just weeds so large or stiff that they interfere with the cardboard's ability to have a fairly close contact with the ground. Mulching over the cardboard is an essential part of the process. You can purchase cardboard designed for this application at the landscape supply businesses. It is six feet wide, and comes as a giant roll, similar to paper towels.

After the installation of cardboard and mulch it would be a good idea to wet down the entire area with overhead watering, just to jump start the process.

Good luck, and keep us informed!

[richnorm]

Old carpet works well (hessian backed). Or just get boxes from the supermarket and damp them down till pliable. Really sorry to hear about the animal problems. Rabbits seem to be getting away here after barely seeing one for 10 years. I think someone released some pets as they are not the wild looking sort. Just found a 15 year old Dypsis scottiana gnawed to the ground. Lost a Dictyocaryum to a neighbour's dog too (and five lambs plus two pet rabbits ripped from their enclosure). I've always hated guns but tempted to get a licence now!

[LJG]

Heres an unnamed Dypsis that was in a 7 gal pot. Several i had seen were "excavated" from above like clawed down halfway and then eaten. This Dypsis had one frond eaten off many months back which left a spear that eventually opened so it could be eaten off AGAIN!

20140127_133604.jpg

Currently its hopefully recovering at Lens place.. (Thanks Len) with its remaining 8" spear..

And thanks for the condolences... and all the chastising. If someone told me THIS would have been the result of rampant weeds, I would have done something earlier.. but as I have said in the past, people can learn from my mistakes... I'll allow it

Hang in there buddy. Stay motivated to get the weeding done and then stay on top of it! Some good news for you is the plant in my GH has pushed the spear about 2 inches. I think it likes the RO water and fertigated water.