Trithrinax acanthocoma and T. brasiliensis differences as young palms?

[Kostas]

Hello!

I know that both species have been lumped under T. brasilensis but would like to ask you what differences did these two species exhibit as young palms and how they can be told apart as juveniles,much before trunking,when they are developing their palmate leafs. What characteristics do we look for?

I have 2 I got as C. brasilensis and want to know what they are so that I know what they will look like in the future. From the pictures I have seen,T. acanthocoma is the most beautiful of the two with bigger,wider,flatter leafs with silverish hues on them while T. brasilensis seems to have an untidy crown where everything merges together/leafs don't retain their shape and crown appears like a ball of folliage atop a trunk while T. acanthocoma is more "Copernicia" like.

Thank you very much in advance!

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

I don't think there is a difference. different growing conditions lead to different forms.

[sarasota alex]

Oh the ever-changing status of Trithrinax acanthocoma!

So it was described by Drude in 1878 as T. acanthocoma. Mattos was the first one to lump it into T. brasiliensis in 1977 as T. b. var. acanthocoma. Then somehow it ended up being a separate species again. Until Henderson lumped it back into T. brasiliensis in the Field Guide in 1995 without making it a variety. Then Noblick and Lorenzi's book came out in 2010 and they made it a T. acanthocoma again. Then in 2013 the Revision of Trithrinax by Cano, et al made it T. brasiliensis var acanthocoma yet again.

So... I'm going with Dr. Noblick here - Trithrinax acanthocoma.

My personal observation - most T. brasiliensis I've seen had spiny fiber covered trunk even when tall. All T. acanthocoma I've seen past 7-8' the trunk was clean. I realize that this is taxonomically meaningless. Just an observation.

[Kostas]

Hi Axel

There is a difference in appearance and so,even if considered same species,I want to know what I have.

Thank you very much for your detailed reply Alex,I appreciate it!

How can these two be told apart when young? When do the leaflets start splitting at the tips enough to be able to differentiate them using the depth of splitting and what other differences do they have that could be used on IDing young palms?

Thank you very much in advance!

[realarch]

Kostas, This palm is about 20 years old and is growing in the backyard at our just recently sold San Diego house. I acquired it in a 4" pot at a PSSC event many years ago as T. acanthocoma. Over the years, as related above, the name went back and forth. This palm was planted in the wrong place, but it was always so beautiful and has been trimmed up to keep one from getting stabbed to death. The new owners love it, so it's near future looks promising. These photos were taken last month and it was actually full of emerging inflorescence.

Can't be of much help in making the comparison your seeking, but I wanted to post some pics mainly because this palm is not commonly seen on the board.

Tim

[Phoenikakias]

Reputedly T brasiliensis as strap leaf seedling may have a blue hue on leaf while acanthocoma not. Also reputedly brasiliensis has overall more silvery leaves and looks more gracile. David Jones in his book attributes to the brasiliensis only floral and fruit differencies, that is brasiliensis has snow-white inflorescence bracts, yellow flowers and its ripe fruits are black. Also reputedly brasiliensis is more tolerant of moist conditions.

But having seen how all these traits may vary even on the same specimen from time to time (for example mine) and how many intermediate forms or cultivars of acanthocoma do exist, I begin doubting about the separate status of them.

On the other hand I can not oversee how different some forms are from each other, but similiar and to a greater extent occures also within Chamaerops humilis.

Edited April 6, 2014 by Phoenikakias

[Tassie_Troy1971]

Nice palm Tim i have a small one of these near my letter box !

[Phoenikakias]

Not a good option imo to plant one near your mail box. Segment tips though not lethal as of campestris are usually also sharp.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Not a good option imo to plant one near your mail box. Segment tips though not lethal as of campestris are usually also sharp.

Most mailman worry about getting bit by a dog, at Troys they will get bitten by a palm.

[kelen]

I wrote a paper with differences between T. acanthocoma and T. brasiliensis. The paper discusses the palms of Rio Grande do Sul Brazil (in portuguese). In the Lorenzi' book Iproposed the separation of these two species because I think definitely they are different species. I can put some photos.

http://rodriguesia.jbrj.gov.br/FASCICULOS/rodrig65-1/ID%20862.pdf (paper)

Trithrinax acanthocoma: G, H, I, J

T. brasiliensis: K, L, M, N, O, P.

[Phoenikakias]

Thanks Kelen for offering this paper to public! I agree that a genetic analysis is urgently needed! Only I have to make the remark, that also in the Chamaerops's monotypic genus there are specimens with deeply split segments and specimens with almost to all entire segments and some have also somehow costapalmate leaves! Even within the only valid up to now variant of cerifera one comes across specimens with deeply divided segments and overall significantly smaller stature called in horticulture cerifera (sub)variant gracilis in contrast to the common cerifera image.

[kelen]

Trithrinax acanthocoma grows faster than T. brasiliensis. In addition, the kind of natural habitat where they grow are different.

[Phoenikakias]

Parallel ways, also Chamaerops cerifera grows faster than cerifera sub gracilis and gracilis is supposedly way more resistant to moisture in growing point than cerifera, maybe a reflection of different habitats?

[kelen]

Trithrinax acanthocoma grows in clay soil, with other species such as Araucaria angustifolia and other species of trees of the called Araucaria Forest (Floresta Ombrófila Mista: a kind of vegetation in Brazil).

T. brasiliensis grows in the southern Brazilian fields (open areas) in sandy soil in rocky hills, it grows with others xerophytic species such as Cactus (Notocactus / Parodia), Dyckia and some pioneer tree species.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Based on the picture above and the description, t. acanthocoma is the only one in cultivation here in California. It's not a palm you frequently encounter, and because of the name change, t. acanthocoma is now sold as t. Brazilliensis, which contributes to the illusion that they are synonyms for the same species.

[Hillizard]

This summer my Trithrinax acanthocoma (orig. a freebie as a seedling years ago from Phil/JM) is armed and ready to grow! It does well in the shade of my Peltophorum.

[Alberto]

I am very reluctant to call two so different palms, different size, collor, different leaves and spine shape, different habitats etc the same species, but.....  here are some pics of my Trithrinax brasiliensis var. brasiliensis

[Alberto]

....and Trithrinax brasilensis var. acanthocoma

[Phoenikakias]

13 hours ago, Alberto said:

....and Trithrinax brasilensis var. acanthocoma

Alberto, do you have blooming specimens of both taxa? In that case, have you detected any difference in the fragrance of their flowers?

[Alberto]

The T. brasiliensis flowers at this size but acabthocoma not. Next time I will smell the flowers to try to detect differences....

[Erik]

Hoping someone on this old thread can help identify my "Brazilian needle palm" sold as Trithrinax brasiliensis by Cistus Nursery, Portland OR USA. This is it last month (Sept 2023), after 10 years in ground, no protection, Oregon coast zone 8 but good microclimate. 

Is it T. brasiliensis or T. acanthocoma? It only matters as I suggest this palm for use further north (45 oN) than might be expected. Thanks!

[tim_brissy_13]

A local grower here in Melbourne just had his T acanthocoma bloom for the first time. He said it’s smells fragrant like daffodils. It’s a seriously impressive palm, very large with thick, stiff fronds, kind of like a Trachycarpus and Copernicus had a baby. 

[richnorm]

Pat the leaflet tips. if it hurts its' var acanthocoma!