Palms and Cycads........the perfect match ?

[trioderob]

[trioderob]

so do you like the prehistoric look like I do- or is your preference the tropical look ?

[turfpro01]

My first plant was a cycad, and palms came later. I lean towards the prehistoric look, with a twist. Ive almost filled in my small flower beds in the front yards and it ended up full of cycads, palms, yuccas, agaves, succulents, ect.

Yes palms and cycads do go very well together.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

I have a few cycads and I like them, I just haven't really spent much time on them because for one they're too expensive and they take a lot more work to get them to grow in a dry arid climate like mine where soils are predominantly alkaline. if they were easier to grow they'd be a lot cheaper. I've heard of guys trading their Mercedes for a rare cycad - no thanks, that seems like a nasty habit. I like being able to throw a brahea or parajubaea in the ground and have them grow almost care free. My cycads don't grow much at all, they're like pieces of furniture. That's probably the biggest reason I have only a passing interest in them.

[trioderob]

"I've heard of guys trading their Mercedes for a rare cycad"

[trioderob]

[trioderob]

Edited June 3, 2014 by trioderob

[Phoenikakias]

Cycads are a nature's wonder but in a dry climate with limited water resources cycads will prevail on rainforest or other marginal palms. I can not understand the generalization in Axel's argument about alkaline soil versus Cycads! To many Cycads seem to be indifferent about soil's ph and generally about soil's consistency, while I can not claim the same about to many palms (at least in my soil).

[Kumar]

I love cycads but they are very few and hard to get in India - perhaps because natural biodiversity of cycads is low. They are very slow and very water-intolerant (for the most part) and hard to grow unless you can watch over them a lot which unfortunately I cannot. Palms are much more forgiving in my opinion, at least in my climatic conditions.

[Silas_Sancona]

50/50 as far as Cycads go. Like the look of some of the African and Australian species but most of those take forever to reach an impressive size. Design-wise, definitely lean in the direction of dry tropical/ desert-ish, with pockets of stuff that likes more moisture. Less imposing stuff like many of the Zamias or Ceratozamia and Dioon come to mind as Cycads id add into my garden. Would like to try a couple Microcycas from Cuba if they were available.

-Nathan-

[DippyD]

I have a few cycads and I like them, I just haven't really spent much time on them because for one they're too expensive and they take a lot more work to get them to grow in a dry arid climate like mine where soils are predominantly alkaline. if they were easier to grow they'd be a lot cheaper. I've heard of guys trading their Mercedes for a rare cycad - no thanks, that seems like a nasty habit. I like being able to throw a brahea or parajubaea in the ground and have them grow almost care free. My cycads don't grow much at all, they're like pieces of furniture. That's probably the biggest reason I have only a passing interest in them.

In their defense, most cars depreciate in value over time, more miles, ware and tear on the vehicle, paint chips, door dings ect.

A cycad only grows and gets larger and larger and looks better and better, if you could buy a cycad for 100 dollars and in a few years down the road sell that plant for let's low ball it at double the price. I'd say that's pretty good profit margine. Yes it costs money to water them add mulch but cycads can tolerate a lot more neglect than a palm, or a Mercedes......

[LJG]

I have a few cycads and I like them, I just haven't really spent much time on them because for one they're too expensive and they take a lot more work to get them to grow in a dry arid climate like mine where soils are predominantly alkaline. if they were easier to grow they'd be a lot cheaper. I've heard of guys trading their Mercedes for a rare cycad - no thanks, that seems like a nasty habit. I like being able to throw a brahea or parajubaea in the ground and have them grow almost care free. My cycads don't grow much at all, they're like pieces of furniture. That's probably the biggest reason I have only a passing interest in them.

You have been mislead greatly if you believe all this.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

I have a few cycads and I like them, I just haven't really spent much time on them because for one they're too expensive and they take a lot more work to get them to grow in a dry arid climate like mine where soils are predominantly alkaline. if they were easier to grow they'd be a lot cheaper. I've heard of guys trading their Mercedes for a rare cycad - no thanks, that seems like a nasty habit. I like being able to throw a brahea or parajubaea in the ground and have them grow almost care free. My cycads don't grow much at all, they're like pieces of furniture. That's probably the biggest reason I have only a passing interest in them.

You have been mislead greatly if you believe all this.

What kind of a blanket statement is this? That's almost akin to calling someone stupid.

1) Cycads are expensive, that's true. Hence I don't bother much, lest I wouldn't mind my wife divorcing me as I spend my kid's college funds on cycads.

2) Cycads are more difficult to grow than palms - true, otherwise they wouldn't cost as much.

3) Cycads are slow, that's true, and it's even worse in a cool climate.

4) Cycads need acidic soils - that's the advice dispensed by Jurassic Nursery, a cycad nursery in North Hollywood, but other sites claim slightly alkaline. Whatever it is, seems mine don't like my soil pH, my climate or both.

5) Cycads won't grow without plenty of water, true, see Jungle Music's writeup on cycads. There are some that are tropical and won't grow in dry climates, and there are drought tolerant ones that will go into suspended animation without water.

These guys say it best: http://www.plantzafrica.com/using/gardening/cycadgarden.htm

Growing a “prehistoric” cycad garden is not for all gardeners. Cycads are slow growers and therefore need time and patience to grow. They can prove difficult in some instances and may require a little more effort to grow successfully,

Bottom line: I can throw a brahea or parajubaea in the ground and they will grow with minimal water. I can throw a cycad in the ground and watch it grow 5cm over 10 years. Why bother? The only reason I have any decent cycads is because Gary Wood had a fire sale and they were cheap. And these aren't growing either. I get maybe one flush per year if I am lucky and all the conditions are right.

and why is this thread still in the main palm forum?

[Stevetoad]

great shots Rob!

as far as cycads go I have some that i neglect like crazy and they look better for it

[LJG]

I have a few cycads and I like them, I just haven't really spent much time on them because for one they're too expensive and they take a lot more work to get them to grow in a dry arid climate like mine where soils are predominantly alkaline. if they were easier to grow they'd be a lot cheaper. I've heard of guys trading their Mercedes for a rare cycad - no thanks, that seems like a nasty habit. I like being able to throw a brahea or parajubaea in the ground and have them grow almost care free. My cycads don't grow much at all, they're like pieces of furniture. That's probably the biggest reason I have only a passing interest in them.

You have been mislead greatly if you believe all this.

What kind of a blanket statement is this? That's almost akin to calling someone stupid.

1) Cycads are expensive, that's true. Hence I don't bother much, lest I wouldn't mind my wife divorcing me as I spend my kid's college funds on cycads.

2) Cycads are more difficult to grow than palms - true, otherwise they wouldn't cost as much.

3) Cycads are slow, that's true, and it's even worse in a cool climate.

4) Cycads need acidic soils - that's the advice dispensed by Jurassic Nursery, a cycad nursery in North Hollywood, but other sites claim slightly alkaline. Whatever it is, seems mine don't like my soil pH, my climate or both.

5) Cycads won't grow without plenty of water, true, see Jungle Music's writeup on cycads. There are some that are tropical and won't grow in dry climates, and there are drought tolerant ones that will go into suspended animation without water.

These guys say it best: http://www.plantzafrica.com/using/gardening/cycadgarden.htm

Growing a prehistoric cycad garden is not for all gardeners. Cycads are slow growers and therefore need time and patience to grow. They can prove difficult in some instances and may require a little more effort to grow successfully,

Bottom line: I can throw a brahea or parajubaea in the ground and they will grow with minimal water. I can throw a cycad in the ground and watch it grow 5cm over 10 years. Why bother? The only reason I have any decent cycads is because Gary Wood had a fire sale and they were cheap. And these aren't growing either. I get maybe one flush per year if I am lucky and all the conditions are right.

and why is this thread still in the main palm forum?

Wow, you will never get it I guess. You hardly grow any cycads yet you have all the answers about them it would seem. I won't waste my time. Continue with your beliefs.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

I have a few cycads and I like them, I just haven't really spent much time on them because for one they're too expensive and they take a lot more work to get them to grow in a dry arid climate like mine where soils are predominantly alkaline. if they were easier to grow they'd be a lot cheaper. I've heard of guys trading their Mercedes for a rare cycad - no thanks, that seems like a nasty habit. I like being able to throw a brahea or parajubaea in the ground and have them grow almost care free. My cycads don't grow much at all, they're like pieces of furniture. That's probably the biggest reason I have only a passing interest in them.

You have been mislead greatly if you believe all this.

What kind of a blanket statement is this? That's almost akin to calling someone stupid.

1) Cycads are expensive, that's true. Hence I don't bother much, lest I wouldn't mind my wife divorcing me as I spend my kid's college funds on cycads.

2) Cycads are more difficult to grow than palms - true, otherwise they wouldn't cost as much.

3) Cycads are slow, that's true, and it's even worse in a cool climate.

4) Cycads need acidic soils - that's the advice dispensed by Jurassic Nursery, a cycad nursery in North Hollywood, but other sites claim slightly alkaline. Whatever it is, seems mine don't like my soil pH, my climate or both.

5) Cycads won't grow without plenty of water, true, see Jungle Music's writeup on cycads. There are some that are tropical and won't grow in dry climates, and there are drought tolerant ones that will go into suspended animation without water.

These guys say it best: http://www.plantzafrica.com/using/gardening/cycadgarden.htm

Growing a prehistoric cycad garden is not for all gardeners. Cycads are slow growers and therefore need time and patience to grow. They can prove difficult in some instances and may require a little more effort to grow successfully,

Bottom line: I can throw a brahea or parajubaea in the ground and they will grow with minimal water. I can throw a cycad in the ground and watch it grow 5cm over 10 years. Why bother? The only reason I have any decent cycads is because Gary Wood had a fire sale and they were cheap. And these aren't growing either. I get maybe one flush per year if I am lucky and all the conditions are right.

and why is this thread still in the main palm forum?

Wow, you will never get it I guess. You hardly grow any cycads yet you have all the answers about them it would seem. I won't waste my time. Continue with your beliefs.

I am done with this conversation.

[jfrye01@live.com]

I spent last night in Tulsa, OK...came across a yard with a trunking Sabal and two cycads...the Sabal was 100% green, but the cycads were still struggling after the harsh winter...they were alive with new growth, but still had a bit to go. A well placed Cycas in a palm garden is a truly beautiful site;) There are a couple in my hometown of El Dorado, KS (believe it or not) that are quite large (no palms though, but they still look exotic!)

[LJG]

I spent last night in Tulsa, OK...came across a yard with a trunking Sabal and two cycads...the Sabal was 100% green, but the cycads were still struggling after the harsh winter...they were alive with new growth, but still had a bit to go. A well placed Cycas in a palm garden is a truly beautiful site;) There are a couple in my hometown of El Dorado, KS (believe it or not) that are quite large (no palms though, but they still look exotic!)

The wonderful thing about a cycad is that it is just always one flush away from looking perfect again

[Phoenikakias]

I spent last night in Tulsa, OK...came across a yard with a trunking Sabal and two cycads...the Sabal was 100% green, but the cycads were still struggling after the harsh winter...they were alive with new growth, but still had a bit to go. A well placed Cycas in a palm garden is a truly beautiful site;) There are a couple in my hometown of El Dorado, KS (believe it or not) that are quite large (no palms though, but they still look exotic!)

The wonderful thing about a cycad is that it is just always one flush away from looking perfect again

This is THE argument of all arguments for the cycads!

[jfrye01@live.com]

I spent last night in Tulsa, OK...came across a yard with a trunking Sabal and two cycads...the Sabal was 100% green, but the cycads were still struggling after the harsh winter...they were alive with new growth, but still had a bit to go. A well placed Cycas in a palm garden is a truly beautiful site;) There are a couple in my hometown of El Dorado, KS (believe it or not) that are quite large (no palms though, but they still look exotic!)

The wonderful thing about a cycad is that it is just always one flush away from looking perfect again

They do seem to be resilient! I had one I bought at Lowes (I'm cheap, I'll admit) last summer that was really taking off, until my mastiff decided to pull it from its pot and shred it:/ lol

[Gtlevine]

Cycads are way easier to grow than palms, usually look better, and they grow just as fast as palms, or maybe faster. When cycads get bigger they keep getting better looking and more valuable. As palms get bigger they reach the perfect size then decline. Some beautiful palms when young turn into dogs when older. Cycads need less care, animals leave them alone, take less water, etc....... The above are all facts, no debate. I love palms as well, so i say grow both. But Cycads are the superior plant.

[Got Palms]

My Cycads get nothing but neglect along with very little water and all look great My Kissambos went from baseball size to basketball in as little as 4 years ! I love the Jurrasic Look.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

This is the problem with this forum, the majority here is from Southern California, so you can't possibly understand why it's so hard to grow cycads in the "other" California. This place might as well be the Southern California Palm Society forum. And then someone from elsewhere come along and gets called stupid because growing them elsewhere is a totally different experience.

There is a good summary from Glenn in Modesto: http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/37515-cycads-in-northern-ca/. The Central Valley gets hot enough Summers that cycads can really take off in the heat for at least part of the year. Here on the coast, the cool Summer nights pretty much slow cycads down to a crawl. For me, they're mostly a waste of time. They really need more heat units than my climate can provide to really flush. I've got a few that look nice, but some flush once every four to five years. Meanwhile my palms grow all year round. Of course I am going to prefer palms.

Given how much they cost I am grateful that this is one plant hoarding habit I am not likely to catch. If I lived in Southern California, it would be a completely different story, I'd probably collect cycads as well because they look nice.

I would be curious to hear from the incredibly tiny minority from Tasmania and New Zealand that also deal with heat challenged climates. I'd love to hear which ones would actually grow there. Although NZ has much warmer Summer nights than we do.

[richnorm]

Huge array of cycads here Axel. Don't forget there are rainforest species which love cool damp conditions. But the really high prices seem to go to the encephalartos. I grow a few which I got by accident but never caught the fever. The lepidozamias and macrozamias are bullet proof. My apologies to cycad enthusiasts for the spelling mistakes.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Axel, you just answered every question with your statement "heat challenged climates". You are just a dog chasing his tail in most of your postings.

That doesn't sound like a very friendly generalization, but if it makes you feel better, suit yourself.

[Palmzilla]

Some ugly spiky demons

[ghar41]

I definitely prefer the Jurassic look! I often change my mind about which plant I prefer best, but this time of year it would be cycads because many are flushing new leaves.

A tip for those with slow growing cycads...the growth of cycads in my garden was improved immeasurably by two practices: one, the use of coffee grounds as mulch and two, being much more important, the use of fast acting nitrogen.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

I definitely prefer the Jurassic look! I often change my mind about which plant I prefer best, but this time of year it would be cycads because many are flushing new leaves.

A tip for those with slow growing cycads...the growth of cycads in my garden was improved immeasurably by two practices: one, the use of coffee grounds as mulch and two, being much more important, the use of fast acting nitrogen.

Thanks Glenn, I'll try that. Yours look fabulous! So they do prefer acidic soil, I will actually try some citrus and rhododendron fertilizer on them.

Edit: that would explain why mine won't grow. I cannot grow ANY acid loving species in my garden unless I use a strong acidifier like camellia and rhododendron fertilizer. With that, I've been able to grow stellar citrus, camellia and rhododendrons. Without the fertilizer, it's horrible, citrus won't grow at all, and the other acid loving plants even less.

[LJG]

The benefits of coffee grounds are not to change pH Axel.

http://www.cycad.org/documents/Broome-Coffee-2007.pdf

Most cycads do not care about soil pH. South Africans use Dolomite to grow some of the blues. Yours not growing has nothing to do with soil pH.

[Got Palms]

Palms, Cycads stick them in the groung let nature, climate take its course u coddle a Palm, Cycad only to loose it in 2, 5, 10, years and have a hole in your garden makes no sense. If it's a marginal plant for your zone coddling it will not make it strong the genes the plant was born with will make it or break it.

[trioderob]

[trioderob]

[yachtingone]

Both work well in my garden!

Axel I have never lost a cycad in the ground. I have had a few palm trees just up and die on me which they do!

[ghar41]

I definitely prefer the Jurassic look! I often change my mind about which plant I prefer best, but this time of year it would be cycads because many are flushing new leaves.

A tip for those with slow growing cycads...the growth of cycads in my garden was improved immeasurably by two practices: one, the use of coffee grounds as mulch and two, being much more important, the use of fast acting nitrogen.

Thanks Glenn, I'll try that. Yours look fabulous! So they do prefer acidic soil, I will actually try some citrus and rhododendron fertilizer on them.

Edit: that would explain why mine won't grow. I cannot grow ANY acid loving species in my garden unless I use a strong acidifier like camellia and rhododendron fertilizer. With that, I've been able to grow stellar citrus, camellia and rhododendrons. Without the fertilizer, it's horrible, citrus won't grow at all, and the other acid loving plants even less.

Hey Axel, I'll move this topic over to the other forum..

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/37515-cycads-in-northern-ca/

[trioderob]

depends on the look you are going for - i guess

[Peter Pacific]

I love the color and texture cycads give to the garden. In the first picture, there are Cycas litoralis (which I didn't realize would grow so large) flanking a spindle palm, center left, and Dioon edule beyond that. In the second are a couple of common Queen sagos growing unbelievably well, but nothing compares to the sagos in the last picture that just gave me 80 something leaves on the last opening! If you saw the cycads at Nong Nooch you wouldn't even question putting these into your garden!

Peter

[waykoolplantz]

i am well known as not a cycad fan...they bite for one...but i have some friends, whose knowledge and passion i respect, that are fanatics.

I am learning to appreciate them and can actually imagine one of those blu-grey thingies in my Pseudophoenix bed

[Zeeth]

i am well known as not a cycad fan...they bite for one...but i have some friends, whose knowledge and passion i respect, that are fanatics.

I am learning to appreciate them and can actually imagine one of those blu-grey thingies in my Pseudophoenix bed

I'm with you there. I've been to a few gardens that have some super rare stuff, and they recently transplanted what seems like hundreds of them into Kopsick from Dr. Young's garden, but I've never really been able to see the beauty in them. It's too bad, because they grow super well here and they have a symbiosis with cyanobacteria that gives them fixed nitrogen. To each his own though.

[Kim]

I can appreciate the dry garden look, though I've never felt an impulse to buy a cycad. For my own garden I prefer a more lush, tropical look. So if I ever were to plant a cycad it might be something like Cycas debaoensis -- pretty green leaves and not very prickly.

[trioderob]

you folks cant see mixing in a few of these with the palms as a compliment to each other ?