Okay, So Do Bismarcks Grow Well In The Shade? Hmm...

[Jim in Los Altos]

Alright. I keep hearing it over and over that Bismarkia need full blazing sun to thrive. I agree that the best examples I've seen have been out in the open but here's my nearly full shade grown one. It came from a five gallon container roughly eight years ago. Remember that Bismarcks even in full sun are slow growers in NorCal compared to Florida, Hawaii, and some of SoCal. These are recent pictures showing how mine is faring in deep shade with some morning sun. What are your thoughts?

Decent silver coloring Lots of new spring growth

Trunk detail and size 11 shoe Lots of palms shrouding Bismarck. (Parajubaea torallyi in front

[trioderob]

that's slow growth.

I have one that went from five gallon to 16 foot after 4 years in southern cal

oh yea - its in the sun

[Kumar]

Jim, I had two small Bismarckias. One was planted in full shade. It was slow for 3 years but fine. At some stage it lost a growth battle with my Bentinckia which managed to put out a leaf just above the bismarckia making it come under even heavier shade (those Bentinckia leaves don't let much light percolate). Within a few months the bizzie was dead.

The other one is potted, in 70% shade; it's dead slow and clearly struggling though not yet ready to be written off. Based on this limited experience I would most definitely not recommend planting one of these in more than 50% shade.

Edited July 9, 2014 by Kumar

[Dave-Vero]

My neighbor two houses over plopped a Bismarckia in the back yard, where it seems to take up most of the space not occupied by the swimming pool and oaks around the edge of the yard. Seems to be thriving. Its canopy does have a clear view upward.

Locally, Bismarckias in full sun grow fast.

[trioderob]

put them in full sun and they grow real nice

(in the shade not so much)

Edited July 9, 2014 by trioderob

[Pedro 65]

Removing a few Syagarus would allow more light for your Bizzie Jim Looks happy n healthy though and great colour happening below

Ive had a few here in too much shade that had very long petioles and they ended up laying on their side from getting blown over after very wet months.

Pete

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Pedro is right, take an ax to those queens, both your parajubaea and your bizzie need full sun. When I saw it last week it was a lot greener. The camera is not picking up on the green and is overemphasizing the glaucous color. Your bizzie will be less hardy without the blazing Summer sun really hardening those leaves.

[Jim in Los Altos]

I wouldn't even begin to consider taking out those tall queens! Not only are they robust, healthy, and attractive, they provide the very canopy I wanted and needed when I planted them. They're skyline trees now and my neighbors would kill me if I took them out. I DON'T want more sun and most of my understory plants don't either. Besides that, the palms most responsible for shrouding out the afternoon sun on the Bismarckia are Butia, Trachycarpus, and Parajubaea. I wouldn't remove them either just for the sake of one palm. The Bismarkia has persevered several years with all its competition, even bending gracefully towards the driveway and that's how it will stay as will my rainforest "jungle" landscape theme.

The reason I started this post was to get other people's thoughts on the subject, so thank you all for you responses!

[Kostas]

I am with Jim on that,would never remove perfectly healthy and attractive palms or trees(now if they weren't attractive,had a significant flaw and were too common,they would go,but a beautifully shaped and healthy common tree is great to have) just to give another palm or an area more light. After all,Bismarckia also grow in rainforests in certain areas,so they should be able to handle that. Slower growth is certainly to be expected but thats also normal and what happens in a rainforest,the understory plantings are slower than they would with more light and less root competition but the whole picture is far more attractive than if it were just a few of those species growing in full sun in ideal conditions for them,with nothing else big enough to compete with them around. Thats like barren landscape compared to a rainforest setting!

Jim has done a great job balancing the needs of his various palms and plants to create an attractive rainforest themed garden. Well done Jim and i hope your Bismarckia picks up speed now that its trunking and gets to be a secondary canopy palm itself fast! They can grow up to 50cm trunk per year in good conditions!

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Don't mean to offend by suggesting the removal of queens, I just am not that fond of queens. But I would never consider removing a butia. Now the trachy, that's a different story, but Jim's trachys are very well grown.

[NorthFlpalmguy]

Nice job on the Bizzy, I like it. the good thing is even if the growth is slowed some, that it still looks good. It is by far my favorite speceis to see down south in Florida (we don't have them here). I like the queens and wouldn't remove them either. Axel- send those trachys my way and I will trade you butias of double the trachy's size lol. Those are in such high demand here it is crazy.

Edited July 9, 2014 by bbrantley

[Jim in Los Altos]

My tree service is coming early in themorning on Friday to take down a huge old hollyywood juniper that's tangling with a maturing grove of Archontophoenix and a big fat, MESSY, Cordyline australis (common green variety) that I planted in the 1970s. Both are ugly and I'm looking forward to not having to look at them any longer.

[Alicehunter2000]

Don't listen to them Jim! ..... that Bizzy is fine in the shade. In fact, I almost prefer high overhead canopy for frost protection of Bizmarkia around these parts. We are definately borderline Bizmarkia zone here and although they have better color in full sun, they can definately handle some shade as well.

BTW...I always refer to your yard when trying to achieve the look that I want for my own.

[Cikas]

Jim your Bismarkia looks great in shade. I also like your Queen palms ( they are one of my favorite palm species ), they look great.

So don't listen to them. You have great looking garden and healthy palms ( I would never remove healthy palm ).

I also do not care how common some plants are if they look good or great ( they are common for the reason ).

Edited July 9, 2014 by Cikas

[bgl]

Jim,

As has already been pointed out, slower growth can be expected. I planted about 15 Bismarckias in my first garden here, and one of them was in almost complete shade, while the others were fairly (or totally) exposed. The ones out in the open all outgrew the one in shade by a factor of at least 2 to 1, even though the shadegrown one certainly was healthy and looked fine. It was also the "greenest" of them all, while all the others became more and more silver/grey with the increased sun exposure.

Bo-Göran

[LJG]

Jim, I have been thinking it over. I think you should just bulldoze everything and leave the Bizzie.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

I took out a large oak to get sun for my bizzie. It was not doing well anyway.

[Jim in Los Altos]

Don't listen to them Jim! ..... that Bizzy is fine in the shade. In fact, I almost prefer high overhead canopy for frost protection of Bizmarkia around these parts. We are definately borderline Bizmarkia zone here and although they have better color in full sun, they can definately handle some shade as well.

BTW...I always refer to your yard when trying to achieve the look that I want for my own.

David, Yes. The canopy will likely prevent freeze damage to my Bismarkia in the event we get that kind of a damaging freeze. Thanks for the compliments too!

[Jim in Los Altos]

Jim, I have been thinking it over. I think you should just bulldoze everything and leave the Bizzie.

OMG. What a great idea! I'll replace the palms with douglas fir and maple trees and put junipers where the bromeliads are.

[Jim in Los Altos]

Thanks all for your insight and input whether pro or con. I love the diversity of thought here.

[LJG]

Thanks all for your insight and input whether pro or con. I love the diversity of thought here.

You're welcome.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Jim, at the rate you've been buying and planting palms, your garden will soon be the Ralf Velez garden of the Bay Area. Your bizzie fits in perfectly in that style. While there is nothing wrong with crowding your bismarckia with other palms, aesthetically speaking, bizzies do want to be alone.

IMHO what Len has done with his bismarckia is the way to go, closest to what they experience in habitat, (with the exception of the pool). If you see his photo you will understand the bulldozer joke.

I've been struggling lately with the whole notion of how to showcase desert fan palms. I have a whole grotto of brahea, and I am going back and forth with how many more I can stuff in there. I am afraid to crowd desert palms, because it takes away from their beauty. In this case, they're mostly aculeata but I've stuffed some other brahea species in there as well.

[Jim in Los Altos]

Axel, I know exactly what you mean and my original comment contained the words that I've seen Bizzies in full all day sun and they're glorious but that it's not impossible to grow them under lower light conditions. Mine may only get five leaves per year but even at that I'm thankful since some other Bay Area sun grown ones don't do much better quantity wise even if they are bluer, more silver, or stockier in appearance. With lots of my palms entering maturity, I'm in a bit of a planting frenzy and trying lots of stuff I didn't dare before. Dypsis species are finally becoming more common in my yard with eight species here currently and several new genus like Chuniophoenix, Cyphophoenix, Gaussia, Acanthophoenix, and lots more. It's an exciting phase to be in and yes, the Ralph Valez look is entirely possible, at least in sections of my landscape.