Trachycarpus winsan, a new species of trachycarpus?

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Trachycarpus winsan is a form of trachycarpus that is not yet recognized as its own species but is quite distinct from regular t. fortunei. It makes 360 degree leaves and has a smaller overall growth form and much longer petioles than a t. fortunei. For one it will happily trunk in just a 5 gallon pot, so the roots really don't need much room at all. In a way, it's a bit of a dwarf. It's also much more frost tender than a t. fortunei, showing foliage damage in the low 20's. Me thinks it should be its own species.

Here are some pictures.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Are trachys disliked this much that no one even commented?

[Stevetoad]

I like the leaf form much more. looks very cocothrinaxish.

[DoomsDave]

Easy, Axel, a lot of us are fighting the Freeway Demons . . .

That is a nifty Trachy! Cocothrinax for the Cold.

Adding to my Wish List . . .

[Alberto]

I have some seedlings. I hope they will look like this soon!

[Explorer]

I like Trachycarpus as its one of the very few palms we can grow in our climate at 52 degrees latitude North! Well for people whom got spoiled by much warmer climates where you can esely grow about a 100 differend palm species its maybe another matter...

Alexander

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Easy, Axel, a lot of us are fighting the Freeway Demons . . .

That is a nifty Trachy! Cocothrinax for the Cold.

Adding to my Wish List . . .

I've got one with your name on it, I'll bring it down with me next time.

[ghar41]

I like them alot! And your is a nice one. Ive seen so many variations of fortunei though and Im a clumper not a splitter...so they're all fortuneii to me.

[Jim in Los Altos]

I got a seedling from Axel to try out and it's in the ground as well as the manipur variety I also got from Axel. My favorite Trachy though is still martianus at this point.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Glenn, by all means clump away! Even if one decides to lump it into fortunei it is so dramatically different from any fortunei that I've ever seen that it doesn't even fall into the same landscaping category. Perhaps it's not visible from the picture, but this thing has several feet of trunk in a 5 gallon pot! It's such a small trachycarpus that I'd literally call it a miniature trachy. It's smallness is also why it's so much more elegant. If one were to remove the fur, the trunk would be no thicker than a chamaedorea plumosa trunk. Add to it the 360 degree leaves and the extra-long petioles, et voila, a hardy coccothrinax look-alike! But it's smallness is probably also the reason why it's not as hardy as a regular fortunei, this is probably a USDA 9a palm at best. It cannot take a prolonged freeze at 19F.

[sgvcns]

Axel

When I first saw this topic I was interested in a new species description.

I think that variety of morphology does not equal new species.

I am a lumper however so am less inclined to split out varietes.

There are so many morphological variations within species that are well documented.

One more perhaps?

[wimmie]

Trachycarpus winsan is a form of trachycarpus that is not yet recognized as its own species but is quite distinct from regular t. fortunei. It makes 360 degree leaves and has a smaller overall growth form and much longer petioles than a t. fortunei. For one it will happily trunk in just a 5 gallon pot, so the roots really don't need much room at all. In a way, it's a bit of a dwarf. It's also much more frost tender than a t. fortunei, showing foliage damage in the low 20's. Me thinks it should be its own species.

Here are some pictures.

Axel, keep in mind that Trachy fortunei is very variabel in appearence; you can even see different leaveforms on one and the same plant!

Wim.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Axel

When I first saw this topic I was interested in a new species description.

I think that variety of morphology does not equal new species.

I am a lumper however so am less inclined to split out varietes.

There are so many morphological variations within species that are well documented.

One more perhaps?

It makes different size and color seeds.

[Nigel]

In my opinion it is a new species.

Not for any of the above resons but because

1. The seedling leaf is a 6 ridger. No other Trachy does this so the DNA is different.

2. Most significant are the infructences. Totally different to any other trachycarpus.

The problem is that Garry took seeds from cultivated palms in a park. Many offspring ( if not all) are clearly hybrids. Nobody knows where the palms came from. http://price.coldplant.com/Category/Trachycarpus_fortunei_Winsan.html

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

In my opinion it is a new species.

Not for any of the above resons but because

1. The seedling leaf is a 6 ridger. No other Trachy does this so the DNA is different.

2. Most significant are the infructences. Totally different to any other trachycarpus.

The problem is that Garry took seeds from cultivated palms in a park. Many offspring ( if not all) are clearly hybrids. Nobody knows where the palms came from. http://price.coldplant.com/Category/Trachycarpus_fortunei_Winsan.html

Thanks for providing that insight, Nigel. All the winsan seedlings and plants I have are quite distinct from fortunei in many respects as you have pointed out. It's also a species that apparently will not grow in the Pacific Northwest. I got all of my winsan from a grower in Portland that wanted to get rid of them because they would fry to a crisp in the Winter, whereas in the same weather the fortunei showed no signs of cold stress at all.

[Flow]

Whatever it is, it's a nice plant, and I'm curious as to how it will develop. Keep us updated Axel! I only have a very tiny seedling.

[ghar41]

Ive had one of these in the ground for about 10 years now. If Winsan does become a new species mine is likely a hybrid. This one does make mostly 360 degree fan leaves, is a fast grower and is very attractive.

[/uR

Here is strap leaf seedling growing directly below the above fruit. Pollen donors include both T fortuneii and T wagnerianus.

[ghar41]

Here is another example of an interesting Trachycarpus. This T. fortuneii fits the description of T. fortuneii "Taylor." It has droopy leaf tips.

This seedling germinated directly below it. Pollen donors nearby include both T fortuneii and T wagnerianus.

[Alicehunter2000]

I like Trachyocarpus. ....but they don't seem to do that well around here.....maybe too much heat. Got several trials going on with various species .....don't have "Winson" yet....it is very attractive. Princeps seems to be doing ok so far.

[ghar41]

Looking around my yard today there are way too many seedlings on the ground to attribute any to one particular palm unless I am very familiar with them. The seedling in post #17 looks more like Syagrus.

[Bigfish]

How long do they take to start exhibiting the 360 leaf characteristic? I bought seeds from Garry many years ago and started them, but they have been severely neglected for many years and I just this summer potted them up into one and 3 gallon pots (yeah...severely neglected, LOL!). They still don't have 360 degree leaves, but that could be because they have been kept in a juvenile state for so long.

[Tropicdoc]

David it is not the heat that disallows your trachys because they get to 30 and 40 feet tall here. Maybe it's the salt.