Cocos nucifera on Madeira Island

[Cluster]

If not this year the next to follow! Will be nice to check the size of the Marina coconuts in August/September to compare it with my first picture!

Edited April 22, 2015 by Cluster

[Pargomad]

I've just found a picture on Instagram taken 17 weeks ago of the coconut palm of Caniço de baixo in the Inn&art hotel. Have a look and tell me what you think of it, for me it might be one of the most beautiful and healthiest coconut palm of the island !

(I trimmed the picture in order to hide the person that appears on the photo)

[Cluster]

hank you Pargomad, It looks indeed awesome and it has yellow like petioles! Another example I would like to report in August.

[Cluster]

Hello everyone once again I have been missing Madeira and this thread and the people, exams are done I have gotten some pictures from the marina coconuts, from friends on the island. First of all they are looking a bit dry overall, this winter was one of the driest on the island, they looked better during the coldest month than now. I also think that some of the inflorescence dried. On the bright sides there are some small cocos to show up and apparently when I go there (In August) I will be able to meet up with people that might be able to take our concerns into account and aid the coconuts.

This archipelago at 32,6-33,xº (Porto Santo coconuts) being the northernmost place where they can grow naturally in public places or at least one of the most (I know of California, but all examples shown are on very protected areas clearly aided by man heat, dying otherwise, possibly with the increased heat island effect we will start seeing them in public places too) and coconuts being loved by many people, (at least when growing in good conditions, looking so beautiful) they deserve attention. Having mostly CIDP decreases some of the tropical potential the island can give though, I do enjoy CIDP just that we have so many everywhere:) ) .

This will be a series of posts as there are some things I would like to discuss including some seedlings I found being sold here in Lisbon, hopefully you will be able to give feedback.

Disclaimer, I am not 100% sure which pictures match which as I did not take them myself but I will try my best to compare February (coldest month) to these last pictures

Lets start with the coconuts looking dry, even the stem color changed:

Beginning with the tallest coconut in the marina(post #282 last picture):

Compared to the recent one taken some days ago zoom in to notice the "dried coconut":

Zooming out, everything from the stem to the leaves looks so much more yellow:

Other coconuts looking dry:

[Cluster]

Remember I had a theory about the dwarf (being smaller) not suffering as much from the lack of water (since the tall ones have such small amount of soil to expand their roots)? Here I show how the youngest tall and the dwarf are looking better, being both small.

Youngest Tall:

Even our dwarf mascot is looking more dry though, still looking better than the talls. Notice however if they stop cutting it, the spherical crown seems to be developing:)

That's it for now folks, tomorrow I show some of the coconuts developing, good night:)

[Pargomad]

Glad to see you again Cluster ! Yes the cocos seem to be a bit dry and trust me they will get drier until august, they don't water them and I'm sure they will trim them. In summer 2012 they had the shape of a pineapple and their leaves were dry. I guess it will happen again this year.

[Danilopez89]

Looking at these pictures the trunks look kinda skinny. I wonder if they have battled droughts their whole lives. Either way they look pretty good for growing "naturally" so far north.

[Cluster]

The dwarf is supposed to be skinny (the last picture), the other ones are a lot less skinny but you have to be there side by side to see the big difference between both. As for the talls, I am not sure they are pure Jamaican/Panama or whatever tall variety, they might be hybrid (eg Maypan), that might explain the reason, that or the lack of nutrients, soil space is so small as well, not having water most of the time all these might contribute.

Edited June 24, 2015 by Cluster

[Stelios]

Hi Cluster

If these palms were growing in better soil with more water they would look amazing and probably fruiting to maturity. Especially since we saw the new found coconuts in California how good they look. The palms in private gardens in Madeira have better luck than the ones planted in the public places.

Stelios

[Cluster]

Once I go to Madeira I will compare them with the ones being watered (as in private coconuts ), I am sure they will look a lot more green:)

[Cluster]

So tonight I show some of the coconuts in development, I am not 100% sure which palm they are referring to (except for the dwarf one which I will show at the end) as I did not take the pictures myself as I explained before, but I will show the comparison to the coconut in post #251 3rd picture which I believe is the first coconut palm shown here:

So in February this coconut tree (at least it seems to me it might be this one):

and now, as you can see the right coconuts are totally dried!:

Unknown tree coconuts:

And finally the dwarf palm coconuts(I know it is the dwarf because of the sequence of the pictures):

It is full of cocos but will it have enough water to maintain them? It looks to me the problem is mainly due to the water/limited root system resources, though at least regarding the dwarf one they did cut the inflorescence the last time, which was the cause of failure.

Enjoy!

Edited June 25, 2015 by Cluster

[DeletedAccount14e83d09a24f]

Hi Cluster

If these palms were growing in better soil with more water they would look amazing and probably fruiting to maturity. Especially since we saw the new found coconuts in California how good they look. The palms in private gardens in Madeira have better luck than the ones planted in the public places.

Stelios

Yes, you are right. Private are far more beautiful. The private ones have more care, and also are more protected during winters. Those ones from the marina are very exposed. Madeira is not cold during winters, but 13-14ºC is a bit fresh and also it's at the middle of the Atlantic (it's a expression, I know that is not exactly at the middle ) having a lot of winds, which aren't very good for coconuts. For that private ones are beautiful and greener. But there is a huge difference between Madeira and that zone where Danilopez lives on California. The difference is that the highest temperature recorded in the history of Madeira, is lower than the average maximums during summer in his zone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palm_Desert,_California#Climate

The 7-8ºC night temperatures are compensated by 22ºC daily means. And also the average on March is 27.4ºC making it growing a loooooot faster than in Madeira. What happens in Madeira is exactly what happens in some zones of La Gomera in the Canary Islands. The mildest zones on La Gomera island have about 20ºC annual average and the mean temperature for January is 20/15 while on August (the warmest month) is 26/20. In that part of La Gomera the coconuts grow quite lower than in most of Canary Islands; and they grow very similar to Madeira. Temperatures are only a bit bit bity bit warmer, making almost insignificant the difference.

Also La Gomera is pure Macaronesia, and it's the "coldest" (not cold at all) from the Canary Islands. If something grows there it will do it on Madeira and vice versa. For that, I would try a gomeran coconut (hard to find :/)

In the zone of Danilopez happens the same as in Durban. Very high daylight temperatures during Winters... And Cluster hey what's up! Are you again on Madeira ? You got any coconut with you to plant it?

Edited June 28, 2015 by pRoeZa*

[Cluster]

I am not in Madeira yet Proeza but I will be there in August, these last pictures were taken by some friends on Madeira that passed by Lisbon and brought them to me. The marina coconuts do not have issues with heat, in my opinion, the problem is no soil and no water. As for winds I do not know any place like Funchal and that part of the Marina reflects the general wind in the city (no wind at all), less wind than in Palm Desert from what I have gathered in the weather stations.

I am sure they grow faster in the CA desert than on the island, except during the coldest month since Madeira mean temperature is higher than the mean temperatures in the desert during the coldest month, meaning they will have warmer soil temperature during that month. They won't stop photosynthesis in Madeira while they might in the desert during some days (happened at least in the record low events that occurred in the past before the heat island effect), during the coldest month. In terms of growth the coconuts on the island are very new, I think most of the coconuts in the marina have less than 10 years (as seedlings), but regardless they barely have any soil around, I would think that hinders their growth.

Regardless the temperature in Madeira is hot enough that they grow in total shade!:

This coconut is growing under a large tree I think some sort of ficus, one of those "natural growing places" example in a public place in this case a beach where they are usually happy.

This is the biggest in the Marina, I do not know how old it is or its size (hard to compare it without a person nearby but it is bigger than it looks), I do know it does lack soil space:

You can also look at post #364 2nd and 3rd picture in this page to see how it looks without the water from the winter months(looking worse in the summer!)

The only one I have a clue about the age is the one at 180m (590 feet) in Ponta do Sol which is around 20 years old. Unlike the desert though, the lower altitudes are safer for coconuts on the island (higher lows and higher highs, most of the winter anyway) and this one is quiet high! Still its growth looks decent:

The climates are very different, they won't grow super fast on Madeira but they can grow everywhere and seem to grow decently, while in CA (for the moment) seem to need protected human spots and Daniel himself has had some dyeing already. Hopefully he will make it, but still they need special conditions and won't be seen in public places for a while most likely (until the heat island is further developed) due to that reason.

The super high temperatures during the summer in the desert might not affect them that much, tropical islands never get to those highs, actually Madeira record high is already higher than tropical places where the coconut palm is native. Madeira is also a lot more humid especially during the summer. I can only guess that a cyrtostachys renda might grow in the southwest coastal area, with a lot of watering that is, or breadfruit, while in the desert even in the protected spots those more sensitive palms/trees would surely die. They would not look very good, but I think they can grow on the island, coconuts are my passion though:)

With this said I believe the mature fruiting coconuts will show up at some point on the island, the cocos are somewhat new there. If i could convince the private owners to stop trimming them they would probably fruit just fine, just take a look at the dwarf, is full of small cocos growing in that terrible place with no soil/nutrients and much water.

Hopefully when I try the coconut in our garden at 138 m (459 feet) it will be able to fruit, but at that altitude I am not 100% sure. I have to address our garden soil as well. as I suspect it is a bit clayey, before trying out the coconut, the problem is if we do this we have to make sure it does not affect any of the other trees and palms already planted:). Still the archontophoenix cunninghamiana we have is just fine and they do not like clayey, so perhaps our soil is not that bad. I have found some seedlings in a supermarket nearby Lisbon which I intend to share with you guys at some point, and further discuss this matter:)

Edited June 28, 2015 by Cluster

[Danilopez89]

Interesting...

I think Cluster has a better chance of growing a coconut palm tree than me. Both of the coconut trees here (La Quinta and Palm Desert) are almost up against mountains. I live on the valley floor. But with a good planting strategy and good care and protection for the coco I think I can pull it off. And much trying.

I do think that there would be plenty of good growing locations for the cocos here in the Coachella Valley (even public parks) but I believe that it would require planting some more mature ones. I think the hard part is to get them out of the "seedlings stage", to then where they begin to grow rapidly. Maybe planting them as soon as they begin trunking?

I once saw an add on Craigslist about big coconut palm trees from Hawaii. I can't remember if they where selling them or if they where looking for investors to bring them over.?

[Cluster]

Yes coconuts do not seem to be a challenge for Madeira, they are growing as seedlings in public places always unprotected even in shade like I showed:

The challenge is to make them grow while looking beautiful in the marina (due to lack of space and water) and other places as Madeira south coast is a bit dry for coconut standards. We simply have 2 or 3 months without raining and even during the winter it is not ideal most of the time. The 2nd challenge is to see them with fully matured fruits. People that have been following this thread have seen how badly treated the public ones are, they trim them too much(including inflorescence), they look dried most of the times. My dream is to see one growing actual mature coconuts, even if it has to be in the warmest region, the southwest coast (warmer than Funchal).

On the bright side they grow everywhere here, including in Porto Santo island further north in the archipelago in public places.

As for my garden specifically, I think I might have some problems (will only know when I try it). First it is at 138 m altitude and secondly I think our soil is very bad as we did a mistake many years ago (15 years) and brought soil from another zone there which is supposedly more clayey. This summer I want to check how well it drains. The third reason is our Garden only sees sun from sunrise till 2-3 hours before sunset, when the coconut grows considerably its leaves will be able to gather more sun though. The fourth reason is we are not always there so it will not be aided, besides watering it with sprinkles and possible mulch/fertilizers, which the public ones don't have:)

[Cluster]

Daniel, in CA Desert zones, maybe in some protected public places with some sort of walls or any other heat source, might be possible, however I would not put my hands on fire for it otherwise. I do think however you have enough knowledge to manage your own ones in your garden now. You are right, however, that if they are grown more mature they stand more chances. Try to protect it more while it is still young.

[Cluster]

I just found a video of what looks to be a pure tall coconut!, the one Pargomad was referring to in the Inn & Art Hotel:

Take a look at 1 min and 04 (the right trunk!):

That looks like a super coconut, I only found a 360 picture that seems to show it:

That is a fat tall coconut there!.

Ps: Totally off topic but for the ones interested in the island I just saw a recent video (uploaded 3 days ago) of some paddle surfing, shows a bit of our coast and clean waters, I miss my island:):

Edited June 29, 2015 by Cluster

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

Pedro,

That water is crystal clear and GORGEOUS! If I were there, I certainly wouldn't be on a paddle board ON the water, I would be scuba diving or snorkeling UNDER the water! Are there coral reefs there, or just beautiful marine life covered rock reefs? Are there a lot of beautiful tropical fish there?

John

[Cluster]

It is mostly rock reefs, though there is also black coral. There are zones with a lot of marine life, though. I have had an encounter with a monk seal! (almost in extinction, most of them live in our archipelago though and are protected, living mostly on the deserted islands in the archipelago but visiting Madeira from time to time). Just to be clear Madeira islands are comprised of, Madeira, Porto Santo, Desertas (deserted islands) and Selvagens (near the canary islands).

If you go to this page you can have a look at some of that black coral and other creatures on the islands (search for it ctrl + f):

http://www.pbase.com/jdrpc/madeira&page=all

I have been diving since I was a kid I love diving in the sea there, there are plenty of caves and canyons:)

[Danilopez89]

I bet you are gonna have all kinds of coconut trees growing at your house one day Cluster. Those in the private gardens trunks look huge! Do you already have plans for your firsts plantings?

[Cluster]

Well the house does not belong to me but to my family. It already has some palms and even a pine-tree, plants that were mostly planted many years ago when the house was built. But first a small story.Two years ago my interest for palms increased, especially the coconuts since I had always been watching them on movies and tropical beaches, but had never seen one myself. I remember I was watching some gopro video on youtube and said to myself, "hey these coconuts look so cool are they really palms(lol)?, lets browse wiki and find out". At that point I found out how import coconuts are (I would say the most important palm from my limited research) and I noticed they talked about Madeira! I already was a fan of Madeira and now I knew I could chase the coconuts growing in their "natural" limit zone, my country, our island. I searched and searched and found out Palmtalk among others. After some research I decided to create this thread half an year after.

Moving forward almost a year has passed since I started this thread and developed a passion for the cocos, but also some other palms (including how to distinguish many of them), this was passed somehow to my mother among other people I know. She wants to try a coconut, maybe we have space for more than one. Since I have been learning/reading about well drained soils and their importance for most palms among other things, I want to make sure I can give the coconut good conditions to avoid mistakes people have been doing and warning:). I just like to "study" and research a bit before doing something:D I know nothing and even when I know something.

So yes the coconut is the main plan!, but I would like to check our soil and try to make amends (if possible and necessary) to improve it during this summer when I am there. I will post some pictures of our current Garden, maybe even a video for suggestions.

Meanwhile a friend of mine has found places where they are selling coconut seedlings here in Lisbon (probably only during the summer). Which I want to share later. However i am not sure which variety they are and if they were forced to germinate in "overkill" greenhouses as that would kill the coconut right away in the outside as our friends in the Canary islands have reported.

One of the best things about the forum and the people here in Palmtalk is that we can all share and learn with each other. This small project became an hobby and now I think I might have found a way to speak with some people on the island that might be able to address some issues with the public coconuts and palms overall in a better way!

Edited June 30, 2015 by Cluster

[Cluster]

As for the coconut in the hotel, yes that trunk is very large, I believe it is due to its variety and/or more space/soil to develop, it is most likely a pure tall. The only coconut I am sure to be pure is the dwarf one as the trunk is thinner compared to all the other ones and no bole. Just like the ones I found in Malaysia pictures like this known one, red and green malayan:

Ps: I found out from this author that green ones tend to have more stiff leaves, the reds more droopy. If that is true or not I can't be sure but it does look right for most pictures where I had the opportunity to see both varieties side by side. The petioles and leaves colors are also different.

Edited June 30, 2015 by Cluster

[Danilopez89]

Wow I can clearly see the difference between them standing side by side.

I'm also not too sure if my soil will work with my cocos. I'm thinking about "beach sand" now. I don't have any problems with water drainage but it seems like my soil just doesn't dry up fast enough (too much clay in soil i think) and I am not able to water them as much as I do my other palms. When ever I do try to water them more the leaves begin to show stress from too much water.

[Cluster]

Daniel hopefully it will not be too hard to make amends at least to make the soil good enough, in my case I hope if I need to make something to the soil I hope I do not need to change everything, but only perhaps the coconut region. What I am afraid is that changing the soil almost completely would be too drastic, maybe even damage some of the roots from our palms and trees in the Garden already established, like the Archontophoenix cunninghamiana, the CIDP (our only garden shade) and the washies. If needed will look for something less intrusive, hopefully you won't have much issues adapting your soil for better or even optimal conditions.

[Cluster]

So I found even more recent pictures from the Marina coconuts, taken 3 days ago from this forum:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1081775&page=133

Just to help people a bit this first row of coconuts is comprised by four coconuts:

Anyway the coconuts seem to have been watered a bit from the last ones taken 8th June:

notice the third coconut (starting the count from the left (the dwarf one)

now look at 29th June picture:

the third coconut soil(in this picture the third is the one on the right side of the first row) looks more green than on 8th June, the coconuts also seem slightly greener and in this picture we can also see the 4th coconut in the first row of coconuts near that cabin. If you pay attention and look further away to the left of the 4th coconut you see two other coconut trees, the last being the tallest coconut in the Marina, it looks also more green than what I have shown you some days ago (post #364 2nd and 3rd picture)

now notice how the 4th coconut (the one near the cabin) grew considerably since this picture I took on 12th February!:

Edited July 2, 2015 by Cluster

[Cluster]

Just to be clear the "cabin" refers to that glass door that looks like a cabin, giving away entrance to the boats:)

[Danilopez89]

They're looking real nice! These pictures help to get a better idea of what they look like in person. THEY'RE BIG! even with such a small growing space.

[Danilopez89]

Did they replace some coconuts with washies and cidp's?

[Cluster]

If you look at the last picture, the one I took on the 12th February, you can see there is a washie there. This is the only one I know that is replacing a coconut we had there... it was the best coconut in the Marina I do not think I have ever had the chances to watch it (as I was too naive to appreciate palms or trees back then:)). You can look at this coconut from the following video(bad quality though!), just jump to 1:05 and you can see how the marina was in 2009, the coconut was the biggest and strongest, its leaves were as big as the smaller dwarf coconut at its side back then!. We do not know why they removed it, we suspect they killed it but we do not know the reason, or if it was sick. As for the cidps I think they are not replacing anything.

Edited July 2, 2015 by Cluster

[Cluster]

So here are some coconuts a friend found near Lisbon.. I wonder if they are worth trying or if they are like "IKEA coconuts", which would take a lot of patience to adapt... and require colder and colder greenhouses till they are ready to even breath fresh air...

Anyway which varieties do you think they could be? Unfortunately I do not think the people there know:

I think they might also have coconuts for sale on the island after all, but can't confirm that yet!

Edited July 5, 2015 by Cluster

[empireo22]

at 10 euro you should buy everyone of them! also since they are young sprouts I don't think they are adapted to greenhouse enviroments as much as you think. if anything they are not used to full sun and putting them in full sun might cause alittle shock and for them to put out smaller fronds for a bit. you could leave them in the pots and put them under shade cloth for a little bit and then start removing it to adapt them to full sun.

[Cluster]

Before I go to the island on the 30th, I will know if there is something on the island or not:). The major problem is to get them on the flight I guess: o, might be possible will need to inform myself:). The one Daniel got was a bit younger!

Edited July 5, 2015 by Cluster

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

Pedro,

They look like shade grown Green Malayan Dwarfs due to the long trunks and long fronds. It looks like they have been grown in too much shade for too long, which like Alex said they should be grown under shade cloth for a while (a few months) and gradually move them into full sun. I wonder where the grower of these is located?

John

[Cluster]

For me it is hard to distinguish palms this early, of course in the case of coconuts it is easy to know they are coconuts:) due to the seed. Speaking of the seed, they do not look angular at all, so not Jamaican Tall, on the other hand I am a bit confused when you say they look like Malayan Dwarf since the fronds are big. Don't Talls have in theory more potential for even larger fronds (though I have seen dwarfs with very big ones as well)?

As for the place where they are located I need to ask my friend where he did get them, but it is near Lisbon in some supermarket I think. With some luck I might go there and get more information, however I doubt they will know much more than perhaps its origin.

Edited July 5, 2015 by Cluster

[Danilopez89]

Pedro,

They look like shade grown Green Malayan Dwarfs due to the long trunks and long fronds. It looks like they have been grown in too much shade for too long, which like Alex said they should be grown under shade cloth for a while (a few months) and gradually move them into full sun. I wonder where the grower of these is located?

John

John, how can you tell if it's a dwarf or tall with such young cocos?

[Danilopez89]

For me it is hard to distinguish palms this early, of course in the case of coconuts it is easy to know they are coconuts:) due to the seed. Speaking of the seed, they do not look angular at all, so not Jamaican Tall, on the other hand I am a bit confused when you say they look like Malayan Dwarf since the fronds are big. Don't Talls have in theory more potential for even larger fronds (though I have seen dwarfs with very big ones as well)?

As for the place where they are located I need to ask my friend where he did get them, but it is near Lisbon in some supermarket I think. With some luck I might go there and get more information, however I doubt they will know much more than perhaps its origin.

If you have them available to easily purchase, I say they are worth a shot no matter what kind they are. That's how I feel about the ones I buy from Home Depot. They are the ones with yellow-orange petioles.

[empireo22]

its hard to say the variety but even though its shade grown they still look kinda long to be malayans. they may be maypans or maybe even panama tall. which is really a good things since they grow faster and recover faster from cold/cool. hope you can pick some up.

[Cluster]

That friend of mine bought some of them, tough I told him he won't stand much chance planting them in the zone of Alentejo . If I am able to find cocos on the island as I was told some days ago, then I might try the ones there, just because of the logistics. In the coming weeks I should know if it is true or not, I have to say, though, that I like the look of those baby coconuts:). If the coconuts variety were some of the colorful dwarfs I take it we would already see different petiole colors.

This is going very fast actually, I did not expect (not even sure yet!) to be able to plant them this year already as I am still worried about the soil conditions and so on:).

Off topic: I leave you with some more videos from Madeira, posted some days ago: One of many tracks I did not do yet, but intend to experience soon!

[DeletedAccount14e83d09a24f]

So here are some coconuts a friend found near Lisbon.. I wonder if they are worth trying or if they are like "IKEA coconuts", which would take a lot of patience to adapt... and require colder and colder greenhouses till they are ready to even breath fresh air...

Anyway which varieties do you think they could be? Unfortunately I do not think the people there know:

I think they might also have coconuts for sale on the island after all, but can't confirm that yet!

Hello Cluster I would buy all of them and plant all of them.

But listen, let them grow a bit more. I see that they are quite young; I think that is better that this winter to be protected in the house or in a side or something. Madeira is not cold but as you know 13ºC minimums (and 1-2 days 12ºC) is not something rare during winter days and combined with rain and 18ºC maximums I think that are a bit fresh for the palmie. https://www.ipma.pt/pt/oclima/normais.clima/1981-2010/009/But don't look at the climate chart from Wikipedia because is colder than reality. This is the link you always shown me from IPMA (I know to get in by myself, portuguese and spanish are brother languages ) and the coldest month averages are 19.7/13.4ºC which I think that it's a bit fresh for a coconut sprout. Also Madeira's raining season as you know is the winter, and it's not strange to get more than half of the month with clouded skies (according to Wikipedia December and January only have ~165h of sunshine hours) while Durban or Palm Springs a looot more sunshine hours during winters and they also get the magic 20ºC every day. As far as I know, they will do it better in a climate which is sunny and arrives to 23ºC during day and 10-11ºC and night than in a cloudy/rainy entourage with 18ºC at day and 13ºC at night. In fact this happens in the Canary Islands: only by looking at the difference of size of the coconuts from the canarian island of Gomera and then looking at the others from Las Palmas the difference is notorious (Gomera has the most similar climate to Madeira, only 1ºC higher in annual average)

Coconuts do grow beautiful in Madeira when they are big, and they obviously stand in that climate. But, you know how they roll from sprouts? I don't know, it's a recommendation but if you want to do all without any protection and try it go for it, for 10€ a piece... haha!

Do you know any Coconut in Madeira planted from a sprout ? I've readed before that the famous coconuts from Madeira were planted as little plants not as sprouts; but I can't know if this is true or not.

Edited July 5, 2015 by pRoeZa*

[Cluster]

Proeza I am not sure about them being there as sprouts, I have a feeling some were, for example this one post #375 has been there for at least one or two years. If these coconuts fail I think is more due to them being too used to extreme artificial greenhouses, if they fail in Canaries (without adaptation) of course they will have problems here as well. If they need adaptation I might try to, but since we are not there for 2 or 3 months sometimes this will be hard.

Having said that in my opinion Madeira stands a better chance at them, then Palm Springs for these reasons:

It is true max temperature in coldest month is near 20 and the mins can get to 12 some days of the year (even lower in extreme situations like 10-9 (would be warmer in the southwest coast near the sea)), but overall the mean temperature is higher and their feet will be warmer on the island than Palm Springs during the coldest month.

It is true the max temperatures can get to 17 in a bad day maybe even 16 in a "nightmare day", but palm springs can get near 12 max and close to freezing mins (if not under 0 c in extreme weather) under a heavy cold spell. Madeira gets cold spells but never nearly as extreme so it is more stable.

The third reason is that Madeira has plenty of coconuts in public places growing with drought and trimmed, with coconuts able to grow under shade in public places, you have proof just need to watch them:).

The fourth reason is that according to Daniel it is not easy to grow them (he has tried himself) and although there are better spots than his house the stations still show very cool days in certain days for all Palm Springs(even this year they had 30 f 31 f or so). While in Madeira they grow everywhere in the south coast from 0 to 180m altitude at least, including the northern coast (still need to confirm it) and Porto Santo.

The last reason I can think of, is we have a coconut growing at 180 m (far from perfect as you can imagine) for 20 years, without any protection/protected spot or special care.

On average I would say they will like Palm Springs better, but when it comes to extremes Madeira is more similar to the Canaries, immune to extreme cold, not even Florida keys . So if you have a weak coconut during those extremes it will die there without protection most likely.

Having said that, I wish my Garden was a bit lower than 140 m and I could be there to protect them while they grow, but that might be very hard to accomplish. Still after what I have seen on the island I can assure you they would grow just fine if they were "normal coconuts" growing under normal conditions. The best way to assure that is to order your coconuts like Daniel did, they will have time to adapt to your climate as seedlings, opposed to the greenhouses ones that have never seen light or temperatures below 28c. Of course better than living at lower altitudes would be to live at lower altitudes in the southwest coast and add one celcius or so to Funchal temperatures:)

If the Newport coconut was able to grow as a seedling it should not be a challenge at all in Madeira:

Do you think an Euterpe precatoria could grow on the island, I seem to recall someone with worse climate growing one, have no clue? That might be a good looking palm to keep company to the coconuts:)

Edited July 5, 2015 by Cluster