Cocos nucifera on Madeira Island

[Cluster]

You probably had a lot to see, don't worry they won't leave, unless the sea storm we had did something bad to them, but I think they should be fine even if they were hit by some beach pebbles with sea waves.

I have been told there are possible more cocos on the island, I am always eager to meet a new coconut, I know each of them almost by hand now! 

Anyway a few more pictures of this late February, these ones from west Madalena (you already know them  Stelios) :

 

Paul do Mar private unprotected coconuts (looking great as always, but trimmed and some wind damage due to the storms):

 

next one:

 

So lush but trimmed! If there is something I regret when I talked with the owners in the summer (and I only had 30 seconds!), is to advise them not to trim the cocos, even if some of the fronds become more yellowish! Another thing I have noticed is that both coconuts must be tall, it seems to me the inflorescences are mostly female on both coconut palms. None of them seems to open with male and female flowers together (click, go full size and zoom in) and it will be hard for pollination to occur if both open the female flowers and male flowers at the same time. The shape and massive size of the fruit and this fact, makes me believe these are a tall type or at least a hybrid.

 

Bonus pictures, one of my favorite beaches there during the day and at night I took while there:

 

As always have a great day/night.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Stelios]

Beautiful photos Pedro. In person all these places you show in the photos look even more amazing.

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

Thanks for posting all the updates, Pedro.  We really appreciate it.  Imagine how good all the Coconut Palms would look if you could convince everyone to stop trimming them, or at the very least, to stop over trimming them!  It they are going to trim at all, it should ONLY be dead leaves and even then, they should leave at least about 5 or 6 inches of the old leaf base sticking out from the trunk, and NEVER trim any palm leaves right up against the trunk.

John

[Pargomad]

These coconuts look huge ! Impressive ! 

[Cluster]

Hello everyone!,

First of all thank you:)

I would like to start this update (end of March/April) with some bad news, I would dare a bit "tragic" in some ways.

Madeira Island had a very strong storm that lasted weeks late February/March. The winds were very strong and sustained, gusts of 170 km/h were registered in low elevation areas on top of that rain and rain. This is very unusual, especially for the duration of the event, locals say this was a first considering how long it lasted, with the event the sea had to show up, a storm surge.ficus t

I prefer to let you know the bad news first...Heading straight to the worst, the storm surge ripped the Madalena do Mar coconuts (the ones on the beach) of the ground and the ficus that was present there. I dare not to show pictures as it still saddens me after keeping track on these palms for so many years (will post them if you really want to..). One of the coconuts (western most) actually still has half the ground, the other half is gone due to the sea and her roots are totally exposed. I will say I contacted Madalena do Mar to no avail, will try Ponta do Sol municipality to see if they can save the remaining palm roots by adding soil or transplanting the coco somewhere else.

Here are the first results of this event:

Praia Formosa:

 

Other zones:

Bismarckia

 

A king not looking that kingly:(:

 

Will update more during the next days, 

have a great weekend.

 

[Cluster]

Here are the pictures from the Marina Cocos taken at end of March, from west to east:

Trimmed dwarf:

 

 

The coco Stelios found was still there:

 

What to say, it is easy to see (especially in person) what the sustained wind that lasted weeks did to some cocos. Some fronds were obviously more affected (broken and/or burned) as they were more exposed, the wind was mostly SW, but not always. I have to say I was expecting worse after having seen so many palms totally brown and devastated, but still they won't look their best in this and during the next year. The trimming continues, especially done to the dwarf. Speaking of which as you can see "Stelios spotted coconut" is still there. I would hazard they will trim the fruit or come this summer the palm will abort due to the lack of irrigation. It is a shame really as it has very good genes, it looks the most tropical coconut from the Marina group. It is hard to explain but if you go there in person you notice it looks more lush, the fronds have a more light tint to it and are more droopy with very long leaflets. Having seen this dwarf with fronds touching the ground last fall, I can only wonder how cool it would look like untouched and properly irrigated.

Edited May 6, 2018 by Cluster

[Stelios]

The cocos at the marina look good Pedro. Too bad for the cocos on the beach at Madalena do Mar.

[Cluster]

On 5/7/2018, 6:05:08, Stelios said:

The cocos at the marina look good Pedro. Too bad for the cocos on the beach at Madalena do Mar.

Yes it is a shame, I sent emails two times and talked with the locals to save the remaining coco:(

Moving on, the other coconuts you saw in Madalena are still looking similar and while the wind here only caused minor issues it did do somehting, they might be protected from the SW winds:

 

 

Paul do Mar cocos, here the issues were not as evident, still one of the fronds did get some wind damage:

 

The first Madeira born coconut might already exist..:

 

So not all is bad news, the Paul do Mar coconuts don't even know they had winter and with some luck a new coco may be born! However I am not sure the owners are informed on the time it takes for cocos to mature, might discard it, hopefully not.

 

 

Edited May 8, 2018 by Cluster

[palmfriend]

@Cluster - as always, a great amount of efforts to document this wonderful species on your islands,

definitely one of the most educating threads, all the best from over here - please keep going!

Lars

 

[Cluster]

8 hours ago, palmfriend said:

@Cluster - as always, a great amount of efforts to document this wonderful species on your islands,

definitely one of the most educating threads, all the best from over here - please keep going!

Lars

 

Hi Lars,

Thank you for your kind words, it has been a pleasure sharing and learning with all the people from palmtalk and the show will keep going on.

Likewise I am always eager to see updates on Miyako island (which has been doing this for a lot longer) and it comes with the added bonus off pictures from the island landscapes! I hope your Indian coconut sprouts will surprise us with their looks:P

 

Today I show you guys a small video of the Hotel young coconut after the storms mentioned before. You can notice that the frond facing the sea got slightly burned, but nothing serious. I had never seen this type of "burn" thought, it is not really dry per se, but reddish, whatever it is the palm looks fantastic to my eyes at least. Another interesting thing that happened to this coco was the storm surge. I spoke with the person handling the swimming pool and he told me the water literally invaded all the space and all nearby plants were filled with sea water, basically almost every plant died there except the coconut, according to his words.

Here is the video:

 

 

 

[Laisla87]

Great updates and video! I love reading about the plants (especially the coconuts) in Madeira 

[Pargomad]

Hey Cluster ! Thank you for posting all your updates !  Nice work !

[GottmitAlex]

22 hours ago, Cluster said:

Hi Lars,

Thank you for your kind words, it has been a pleasure sharing and learning with all the people from palmtalk and the show will keep going on.

Likewise I am always eager to see updates on Miyako island (which has been doing this for a lot longer) and it comes with the added bonus off pictures from the island landscapes! I hope your Indian coconut sprouts will surprise us with their looks:P

 

Today I show you guys a small video of the Hotel young coconut after the storms mentioned before. You can notice that the frond facing the sea got slightly burned, but nothing serious. I had never seen this type of "burn" thought, it is not really dry per se, but reddish, whatever it is the palm looks fantastic to my eyes at least. Another interesting thing that happened to this coco was the storm surge. I spoke with the person handling the swimming pool and he told me the water literally invaded all the space and all nearby plants were filled with sea water, basically almost every plant died there except the coconut, according to his words.

Here is the video:

 

 

 

Thank you Pedro. 

[Cluster]

Hello everyone,

Thank you all

The Madalena do Mar beach coconuts might be goners, but I also have good news:)

Alex (empirereo22) has found a new one for me to check out:)

And here it is, maybe the first Yellow or Gold coconut in Madeira (feel free to help me ID it), taken days after the storm, it is located in Lugar de Baixo:

 

I really like her, but they could have chosen a better place in the grass! A very good welcome!

Do notice that the King palm nearby didn't do as well.

Have a nice Sunday.

 

 

Edited May 13, 2018 by Cluster

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

On ‎5‎/‎12‎/‎2018‎ ‎7‎:‎16‎:‎53‎, Cluster said:

Hello everyone,

Thank you all

The Madalena do Mar beach coconuts might be goners, but I also have good news:)

Alex (empirereo22) has found a new one for me to check out:)

And here it is, maybe the first Yellow or Gold coconut in Madeira (feel free to help me ID it), taken days after the storm, it is located in Lugar de Baixo:

 

I really like her, but they could have chosen a better place in the grass! A very good welcome!

Do notice that the King palm nearby didn't do as well.

Have a nice Sunday.

 

 

Hi Pedro,

There are no photos of the palm showing up in your post, just the space for them with a little x in the corner.  Can you try posting them again, or send me a message with the photos of them.  Thanks.

John

[Palmsbro]

22 minutes ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Hi Pedro,

There are no photos of the palm showing up in your post, just the space for them with a little x in the corner.  Can you try posting them again, or send me a message with the photos of them.  Thanks.

John

I can see it. Hopefully you can see this screenshot containing most of his second photo.

 

Edited May 15, 2018 by Palmsbro
Word change

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

11 minutes ago, Palmsbro said:

I can see it. Hopefully you can see this screenshot containing most of his second photo.

 

I can see it.  Thanks.

John

[Cluster]

Sorry guys,

It seems imgur wasn't working for me as well today, but currently I am able to see my pictures. If this does not get solved I will need to consider another host 

I have been having a good experience with imgur so hopefully things will sort out, let me know if it does not work as it is working again for me at the moment.

 

Regards,

Pedro

[sandgroper]

On Wed Mar 07 2018 14:50:41 GMT+0800, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Thanks for posting all the updates, Pedro.  We really appreciate it.  Imagine how good all the Coconut Palms would look if you could convince everyone to stop trimming them, or at the very least, to stop over trimming them!  It they are going to trim at all, it should ONLY be dead leaves and even then, they should leave at least about 5 or 6 inches of the old leaf base sticking out from the trunk, and NEVER trim any palm leaves right up against the trunk.

John

G'day John, sorry for my ignorance but why is it important to leave some of the leaf base sticking out from the trunk? Also, why is it bad to trim off an unwanted frond if it's not already dead? 

[GottmitAlex]

15 minutes ago, sandgroper said:

G'day John, sorry for my ignorance but why is it important to leave some of the leaf base sticking out from the trunk? Also, why is it bad to trim off an unwanted frond if it's not already dead? 

Interesting question you pose. Curiously the Corona coconut has been "cleaned" In this fashion: leaves cut, but boots stay on the trunk... 

Could it be in certain hardiness zones the leaf base is the lifeline? In other words, a bare trunk would be kryptonite for the exotic/tropical palm in a marginal climate, as it were.

Edited May 16, 2018 by GottmitAlex

[Cluster]

Hello again guys,

John do you see the pictures now? If not I will send them to you.

I thought about posting some pictures from march of some palms/trees that were less exposed to the winds and thus, did not suffer as much:

 

This last one is a Garnicia known as false mangosteen, fruit is nice but acid:)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

On ‎5‎/‎16‎/‎2018‎ ‎12‎:‎03‎:‎16‎, sandgroper said:

G'day John, sorry for my ignorance but why is it important to leave some of the leaf base sticking out from the trunk? Also, why is it bad to trim off an unwanted frond if it's not already dead? 

G'day Dave,

To answer your questions, !. it is to protect the trunk of the palms and the bud inside the crown from over trimming.  Leaving a few inches of the old leaf base protects the trunks of the palms and the palms will shed them when they are ready, especially in the case of self shedding palms, like coconut palms and royal palms.  2.  Trimming off any green leaves off the palms reduces photosynthesis, and is thus bad for the palms, but sometimes, it may be necessary, in the case of a storm damaged frond or a frond that is hanging over a walkway.  As long as it is just one or two lower green fronds being trimmed off, it's no big deal, but it BECOMES A BIG DEAL when "tree trimming" companies, aka TREE BUTCHERING companies way over trim and outright SCALP the palms, leaving only a few delicate new fronds sticking up in the air in a V pattern!  I hope this explanation helps.

John

 

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

On ‎5‎/‎16‎/‎2018‎ ‎12‎:‎10‎:‎53‎, GottmitAlex said:

Interesting question you pose. Curiously the Corona coconut has been "cleaned" In this fashion: leaves cut, but boots stay on the trunk... 

Could it be in certain hardiness zones the leaf base is the lifeline? In other words, a bare trunk would be kryptonite for the exotic/tropical palm in a marginal climate, as it were.

Alex,

I think you are on to something there, and I theorize too, that the lingering leaf bases on otherwise self shedding palms like the coconut palm being grown in dry dessert climates, helps the trunk of the palms retain moisture!

John

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

Pedro,

I have seen the photos now, and the new ones of the palms that weren't injured are absolutely beautiful!!!  We need some updates with photos of your in ground coconut palms at your home too!!!

Thanks,

John

[sandgroper]

15 hours ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

G'day Dave,

To answer your questions, !. it is to protect the trunk of the palms and the bud inside the crown from over trimming.  Leaving a few inches of the old leaf base protects the trunks of the palms and the palms will shed them when they are ready, especially in the case of self shedding palms, like coconut palms and royal palms.  2.  Trimming off any green leaves off the palms reduces photosynthesis, and is thus bad for the palms, but sometimes, it may be necessary, in the case of a storm damaged frond or a frond that is hanging over a walkway.  As long as it is just one or two lower green fronds being trimmed off, it's no big deal, but it BECOMES A BIG DEAL when "tree trimming" companies, aka TREE BUTCHERING companies way over trim and outright SCALP the palms, leaving only a few delicate new fronds sticking up in the air in a V pattern!  I hope this explanation helps.

John

 

Thanks John, that makes perfect sense.

[Cluster]

Hello everyone,

Before showing the last coco of the winter update I thought about sharing some of the photos I took during the few days I was on the island:

In some highlands just enjoying the peaceful places all to myself apparently with some sheep too:

 

Inside the Laurel Forest:

 

 

 

I still had time for some swimming in Funchal:

 

This all before waving to the last coconut, which has become one of my favorites, the highest elevation coconut at 200 m (656 ft):

 

I really like how she looks like and she seems to have not noticed the winter, similarly to the Paul do Mar cocos. The wind damage was barely noticeable. This coco is facing east, the house behind her probably helped sheltering against the massive winds from the southwest. If this is indeed a green dwarf tree it would be nice to see her fruiting soon. I should try to speak with the owners so that they stop trimming her and hopefully manage to make the coco fruit! At this elevation, I am not sure, but if looks matter then surely this coco should be able to fruit, if well fed and with less trimming! I would never expect to see here some of the best cocos on the island but here she is:)

Hope you all enjoy,

 

Pedro

 

 

Edited May 17, 2018 by Cluster

[GottmitAlex]

Thank you Pedro.

Fantastic pics!

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

7 hours ago, sandgroper said:

Thanks John, that makes perfect sense.

You are quite welcome, Dave!

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

6 hours ago, Cluster said:

Hello everyone,

Before showing the last coco of the winter update I thought about sharing some of the photos I took during the few days I was on the island:

In some highlands just enjoying the peaceful places all to myself apparently with some sheep too:

 

Inside the Laurel Forest:

 

 

 

I still had time for some swimming in Funchal:

 

This all before waving to the last coconut, which has become one of my favorites, the highest elevation coconut at 200 m (656 ft):

 

I really like how she looks like and she seems to have not noticed the winter, similarly to the Paul do Mar cocos. The wind damage was barely noticeable. This coco is facing east, the house behind her probably helped sheltering against the massive winds from the southwest. If this is indeed a green dwarf tree it would be nice to see her fruiting soon. I should try to speak with the owners so that they stop trimming her and hopefully manage to make the coco fruit! At this elevation, I am not sure, but if looks matter then surely this coco should be able to fruit, if well fed and with less trimming! I would never expect to see here some of the best cocos on the island but here she is:)

Hope you all enjoy,

 

Pedro

 

 

Pedro,

I love the update and the photos, but 3 of them were x ed out and I couldn't see them.  One of the laurel forest ones, the one where you mentioned swimming in Funchal, and the Coconut Palm one!

John

[Cluster]

Hello everyone,

Thank you.

John I am out during this weekend, just using my smartphone to post. What is happening is that imgur is not being resolved properly for some of us. If sunday when I return you still don't see them, I will send them to you. For the more techy people, using Google dns might solve the issue.

Regards,

Pedro

Ps: The laurel forest is actually called laurisilva and is a mix of many plants, some of which are laurels. It reperesents the ancient Mediterranean forest before the ice age killed it.

Edited May 18, 2018 by Cluster

[GottmitAlex]

9 minutes ago, Cluster said:

Hello everyone,

Thank you.

John I am out during this weekend, just using my smartphone to post. What is happening is that imgur is not being resolved properly for some of us. If sunday when I return you still don't see them, I will send them to you. For the more techy people, using Google dns might solve the issue.

Regards,

Pedro

Ps: The laurel forest is actually called laurisilva and is a mix of many plants, some of which are laurels. It reperesents the ancient Mediterranean forest before the ice age killed it.

Might I suggest employing 1.1.1.1 dns.

Faster than and dns resolver worldwide. .. and more secure.

Check it out. Https://1.1.1.1

On your windows/mac 

Primary dns:1.1.1.1

Secondary : 1.0.0.1 

Unfortunately , doesn't work on cell phone data connections except on WiFi connections. 

But for pc's and laptops, they benefit greatly.

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

4 hours ago, Cluster said:

 

Thank you.

John I am out during this weekend, just using my smartphone to post. What is happening is that imgur is not being resolved properly for some of us. If sunday when I return you still don't see them, I will send them to you. For the more techy people, using Google dns might solve the issue.

Regards,

Pedro

Ps: The laurel forest is actually called laurisilva and is a mix of many plants, some of which are laurels. It reperesents the ancient Mediterranean forest before the ice age killed it.

Okay, thanks, Pedro.

[Stelios]

Beautiful photos Pedro!

[Cluster]

Thank you guys!

I have some good news, the municipality of Ponta do Sol read my email and will take proper care of the remaining coconut in Madalena do Mar that survived the storm surge, hopefully they will cover the exposed roots with soil (half of the roots were exposed) and those exposed roots will survive or at least the coco will be able to replace them.

Regards,

Pedro

PS: Can anyone ID the new Yellow/Golden I showed before?

Edited June 4, 2018 by Cluster

[palmfriend]

Pedro,

again a great documentation with awesome images, thank you very much! 

16 hours ago, Cluster said:

I have some good news, the municipality of Ponta do Sol read my email and will take proper care of the remaining coconut in Madalena do Mar that survived the storm 

surge, hopefully they will cover the exposed roots with soil (half of the roots were exposed) and those exposed roots will survive or at least the coco will be able to replace them.

Wow, congratulations! I really hope it will be done properly, please keep us posted!

Best regards from Okinawa -

Lars

 

[Cluster]

Hello Everyone,

Here is a part of the new update, I have been a bit busy last months but I am back for some more:)

Lars, I the situation has been only partially corrected, they did attach a rope around the trunk so it doesn't get washed away but they did not add any soil to the large exposed area.

The next updates were between Christmas and early January, it is nice that you don't see much of the last winter's wind and salt damage.

 

Marina cocos, oldest one:

 

The Green Dwarf:

 

As you can see the Marina cocos are healthy, however trimmed as always, however the Tallest and oldest coconut there, seems to have been less trimmed, probably is getting too tall, so it is looking better than in the past,

despite the salt storm of this last winter. The Green Dwarf has two very nice coconuts, however January has been very dry, I am afraid if they are not watered the cocos will end up falling, usually this happens in the dry summer months, but it could happen now since there is barely any rain. Also most of the times they end up trimming the fruits.

 

Highest elevation coconut on the island at 200 m/656 ft:

Looking very healthy as well, seems to be growing faster now.

 

Here the hotel coco which was submerged in salt water, was getting similar treatment in this storm surge:

You can see it is growing very fast and very healthy (always deep green), however it does have to be trimmed at this stage to allow passage.

 

Finally the only Golden/Red Dwarf from Lugar de Baixo:

 

Super trimmed, but healthy nonetheless.

Correct me i I am wrong, but wouldn't more fronds help with the growth of the palm by capturing more light ?

Will give you further updates the following week, there are some very good news to talk about, but I don't have time to update everything tonight.

 

You folks have a nice week!

 

 

 

 

[Stelios]

Great photos Pedro. The palms look great. They seem to like the extra water from the rain but they need more water in the summer. I underestimated my palm on the summer watering. I also believe the overtrimming is slowing them down.

Keep us posted and for the Porto Santo island coconut if possible.

[Cluster]

Hello Stelios,

It will be hard to manage to document Porto Santo coconut as I have not been able to go there for the last 2 years. I will of course document them as soon as I have a chance! 

I also believe that trimming them is slowing them down, but I am by no means an expert.

 

As I was saying yesterday I have some news, I found a new coconut! And it is a coconut that is growing at 130 m / 426 ft. It is growing in the shadow of a big queen palm, near a corner that gets a lot of shade for most of the day due to the house and such. It is very healthy, however, especially taking into consideration the elevation. I know this zone very well and is not really known to be that warm, still this shows there is more to a coconut than warmth. Without further due here is the new family member:

 

Hello there:

 

 

As you can probably tell by now I was able to talk with the owner and gave him some tips. I am really happy to have found this one, so healthy, hopefully at some point it won't need such haircut, also it is a shame that queen is there:)

More to come the next days and some hiking.

Have a nice day/night folks!

 

 

 

 

[Cluster]

Hello Everyone,

Before I show you the best reveal, I thought you would like to see some other palms I found during my walks. 

I wanted to find new gardens so I went to a few hotels and other places, some of these palms are new to me.

 

They keep labeling these archontophoenix as cunninghamiana, but I think they don't look like the normal cunninghamiana that I know.

 

 

Since I have joined Palmtalk I have seen a lot of Licuala pictures, but this is the first time I see one on the island

 

A local

 

These last ones I am not 100% sure

 

Hope you all enjoyed have a nice day/night

 

[Cluster]

Some years ago Kevin (Pargomad) showed us some promising cocos somewhere in Gaula. At that time I didn't give it much of a thought, I didn't know the zone well and it just got lost.This Winter I asked Alex (empireo22) if he could help me finding it with google maps and he did. I went there and this is the result:

Gaula coco, around 100 m/328 ft elevation:

 

This is one of the best coconuts on the island (if not the best as the ones with potential are always super trimmed), I wish more people would plant them, they can look very good! Supposedly this area is not among the warmest and at this elevation it is not optimal, but the coco doesn't seem to care so who am I to disagree with it, maybe it is a warmer climate than what it is to be expected. I expect it to even look better during the years as the severe and long wind storms we had last year did affect all cocos.

Kevin when you return to Madeira you will want to pay a visit to this one!

Have a great day/night folks, have some hiking photos during my stay to share with you later.